Wife complaining about mpg - help (1 Viewer)

[re_guderian]

funny, my Honda minivans never got anywhere near double the fuel economy of my cruiser. Is anyone getting 24+ MPG combined driving from a minivan? I got 15-16 in town, and about 21 highway in an '05 Odyssey... A couple of hundred dollars savings per year max.

 

[mcgaskins]

Use the safety argument. You value your family more than you value saving a few thousand dollars a year.

Dying in an automobile accident is the leading cause of death for all Americans aged 1-34. It's the number one risk for pregnant women, it's the number one risk for your kids, it's the number one risk for you.

The NHTSA recently did research on what variables impacted survivability in side impact collisions. The safest seats were the ones in an SUV. (See "Development of a Lateral Test Procedure", slide 14, here: http://www.nhtsa.gov/Research/Child Seat Research) The variation between the best and worst car seats in these tests were greater than the variation between the best (Britax Advocate) and worst (Diono Radian) car seats here: http://www.nhtsa.gov/CARS/rules/rulings/SideImpact/index.html.

In other words, the safety of the car you put the seat in is more important than the safety of the car seat you install (although both are important).

The reason you're paying a lot in gas in physics: it takes more fuel to accelerate a tall heavy vehicle than a lighter smaller one. But physics is also the reason the Land Cruiser is so safe. Heavier vehicles are safer in a collision than light ones because they have greater momentum. Taller vehicles keep your vital organs (head and chest) higher off the ground, and above the crush zones of other vehicles. That's why SUVs are 7 times safer than cars in head to head collisions (10 times safer if the SUV has a better crash test rating than the car does). http://www.buffalo.edu/news/releases/2013/05/026.html

According to the IIHS, the Toyota Camry has an injury rate of 133-141% compared to the average American vehicle. While an upgrade over the Altima (especially an older Altima), it's still a sedan and will not fare well in a collision with a larger vehicle. An 03 Land Cruiser, by contrast, had an injury rate of 41% of the average American vehicle.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/insurance-loss-information

Furthermore, the driver death rate on all vehicle classes is lowest for midsize to large SUVs. Compared to a midsize sedan, the average large SUV in 2010 was about 3-4 times safer than the average midsize sedan.

The latest stats on a VW Jetta show a driver death rate of 27 compared to 46 for Camry and 13 for a GX470 (2006-2009 models). These are statistically adjusted to account for age, gender, location, and demographic factors. Latest injury results show injury rates of 110-118% (Jetta), and 133-141% (Camry).

http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/vehicle-size-and-weight/qanda#vehicle-size-and-weight
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/driver-death-rates

The other thing that's interesting is that the Toyota brand is very good at making safe SUVs. All models have been "Excellent" except for the RAV4 and first gen 4WD Sequoia, which were still above average.

And it's not just about demographics (i.e. who's buying SUVs). For example, Japanese full size pickups only appeal to a certain segment of the population.

The Toyota Tundra and the Nissan Titan both look like big safe trucks, but only one was a IIHS Top Safety Pick, and only one did very well in crash testing. Drivers who chose the Toyota in 2006-2009 were among the safest drivers in America, with an adjusted driver death rate of 20 per million. Drivers who chose the Nissan were among the least safe drivers in America with an adjusted driver death rate of over 100 per million. In other words, a 2008 Toyota Tundra is 5 times safer than a 2008 Nissan Titan.

In 1999, Ford bought Volvo, the leading brand in safety innovation and research. At that time, Ford and Chevy drivers had about the same driver death rate. Safer than Mitsubishi, but nowhere near as safe as Honda or Toyota. About 5 years later, Ford began releasing new models with better crush zones. The redesigned F-150 was designed so that the engine compartment absorbed most of the energy, instead of the cabin compartment on the previous generation. As a result, the driver death rate was cut in half.
From 2005-2008, drivers of new Fords were about as safe as drivers of new Hondas and Toyotas, much safer than drivers of Chevy or Nissan.

I literally knew nothing about the 100 series when I began doing safety research on what was the safest car I could put my family in. I "discovered" the Land Cruiser by searching for a vehicle that had size, mass, build quality, stability control, and low driver death rates and injury rates.

The only thing that I know is safer than a 100 series is a 200 series, and even then not by much. If your truck control has stability control and side curtain airbags you can't put your family in something much safer.

PM me if you want more data (I have a lot!)

Excellent post. My girlfriend drives a Honda Civic because she drives a ton for work like 30k miles per year. It bothers me to think about her going to head with other vehicles on the road in the event of an accident, so I told her that when we get married one condition is that she gets a 100 or 200 series (tongue in cheek of course). I try, unsuccessfully so far, to make an argument that safety far exceeds the cost savings gained in mpg. Then when I try to tell her I have several motorcycles because they're so good on gas, it does not bode well for convincing on the whole safety/efficiency thing

 

[Cruiserdrew]

funny, my Honda minivans never got anywhere near double the fuel economy of my cruiser. Is anyone getting 24+ MPG combined driving from a minivan? I got 15-16 in town, and about 21 highway in an '05 Odyssey... A couple of hundred dollars savings per year max.

Believe me, I'm not making the economy argument that much. On the highway 14 is realistic on good days in the cruiser. On the highway, 24-25 has been routine in the Sienna. So not quite double but waaaaay better. My argument is that it's just a better family vehicle. Space, safety and economy all favor the minivan.

Still, If it were me, and I was in the OP's position, I'd keep driving the Land Cruiser and look for a house closer to work.

 

[mattjm321]

I had the same internal debate. My wife drives an IS250 and gets a consistent 28-30 mpg. She borrowed the car for a week and complained. It's my DD and we use it for family trips. We have a 1.5 y.o. son. In the end, I'm keeping the Land Cruiser.

Here is my reasoning: Old UZJ100s are pretty much at the bottom of the depreciation curve. They're rare. Vent windows and split tailgate. It'll tow my boat. Good for another 100k. I'll win most collisions then I'll get a cool bumper.

It's seriously a car that will be cool (maybe cooler) in another 10 years. I'll drive it until I've saved enough to pay cash for the other car I've always wanted. Life is too short to drive economy cars.

 

[SeattleFJs]

Tell her to go buy herself a new TDI then. Lol.

I had a 2011 TDI Sportswagen. Loved it, but parted with it after it spent a collective 52 days in the shop in the first year. Ahhhhhhh, Volkswagen.

 

[084runnerltd]

Save money by not buying a bimmer. I have had 2 in the past few years a 335i and 650i.

Btw you can remind your wife that they are not that great on mileage either. My 335i got low 20s and I would never own one once the miles get higher....

Sell the bimmer and buy 4 Geo Metros....if your goal is mileage only.

 

[nick j]

My wife doesn't say anything about the LC mpg, cos I buy the fuel......

 

[SWUtah]

I agree about safety. If this is your ride grow some and tell the wife you love your 100 and your keeping it. If the 100 is her ride let her read the very informative post on the safety of a 100 series and tell her to pick mpg or safety.

 

[TXLX100]

How much do you have to spend on tires and brakes for that IS250 annually (I know front rotors often have to be replaced)?

It's crazy how good of a vehicle you can buy for $10-15k. Super smooth/comfortable, safe, after a few major things break it's relatively cheap, lasts very long time..... For me, all that tips the scale on the gas issue.

 

[KlausVanWinkle]

Just returned from trip to France and rented 2 diesel cars that got almost 60 mpg. Other car at home is a 2012 bmw 328 wagon with 6 speed manual that she drives. She's not happy with LC right now, had to drive it a few days this week.....
Really we do drive a lot, probably 37k per year between us both. We have 1 kid and one on the way. I calculated mpg savings with a new jetta sportwagen tdi and I actually think the savings would cover depreciation of a new car.....

Help!


...via IH8MUD app

The BMW will be a far bigger money suck than the Land Cruiser. Replace that with the Sportwagen. If you're not using the Land Cruiser offroad, the cost of ownership, even with gas, isn't much. Although half of 37k miles a year is a lot of gas....

 

[ridesideways]

It was days before I bought my LC that the post about the recent Denver head-on happened. That event negated any mileage arguments in my mind (we have one baby and one on deck).

 

[TeCKis300]

The land cruiser didn't fare too well here. I know what I'm getting next.

 

[930chas]

Immediately upon delivery of our cruiser, my wife fell in love and hasn't really relinquished the keys since. She went to pick up my son at lax practice last night. She left early to watch some of the practice. It was hot and sticky out. I asked her when she got back of the 45 minutes that you were sitting watching how much time was the truck actually not running. Maybe 10 minutes she replied. Filled it up with fuel today and we got 13.6 mpg. Couple her zealous use of sitting with a/c running and mainly around town driving, I can't complain about that at all.

 

[JakeP]

Life is too short to drive economy cars.

Thanks for the new life motto

 

[Jack90210]

Use the safety argument. You value your family more than you value saving a few thousand dollars a year.

Dying in an automobile accident is the leading cause of death for all Americans aged 1-34. It's the number one risk for pregnant women, it's the number one risk for your kids, it's the number one risk for you.

The NHTSA recently did research on what variables impacted survivability in side impact collisions. The safest seats were the ones in an SUV. (See "Development of a Lateral Test Procedure", slide 14, here: http://www.nhtsa.gov/Research/Child Seat Research) In a side impact collision, the variation between the best and worst car seats in these tests were greater than the variation between the best (Britax Advocate) and worst (Diono Radian 65) car seats here: [EDIT: corrected the link] www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/rulemaking/pdf/213-nprm-side_impact.pdf, p82, Figure 9.

In other words, the safety of the car you put the seat in is more important than the safety of the car seat you install (although both are important).

(... snip ...)

PM me if you want more data (I have a lot!)

Thank you for that informative and well-documented post.

 

[Jack90210]

Safe family hauler = minivan. Just get one. It will double your fuel economy vs the Land Cruiser.

If you want a TDI and you're looking for justification, just get one. They look nice, get crazy economy, but seem small for a family vehicle.

If safety is your #1 concern (sounds like fuel economy is, but...) then keep the Land Cruiser you already own.

It's all a balance. If you can afford a $35,000 JSW (Jetta Sport Wagon-TDI forum lingo!) you can afford to keep driving the Land Cruiser.

While my kids were growing up we went through 4 minivans-2 pos Dodges, 2 Toyotas. Still have the last Toyota. They are by far the best family vehicle you can own. They have roughly 50% more interior volume than your Land Cruiser and get double the fuel economy. There are even rumors that Toyota will put the hybrid system in the Sienna at some point. That would be pretty cool.

+1 to all of that.

Decide what's important to you and buy the vehicle that's most appropriate.

FWIW, we get in the upper 20s (MPG) in my wife's '11 Odyssey Touring on the highway.

 

[El Cid]

Tell Al Gore to drive the economy car.

 

[SWUtah]

That's a blast from the past.

 

[Wilsil]

Or you can hope for this: http://lexusenthusiast.com/2014/06/16/lexus-lx-450d-trademarked-australia/

 

[TeCKis300]

I agree that getting another car for gas savings will typically never result in real net savings. Though the land cruiser is thirsty enough that if the other car did get significantly better gas mileage, the 'discount' in fueling costs is potentially enough to justify buying that second car (or 3rd in a family). If only just to have another vehicle in the stable for whatever other reasons.

I personally like to do the maintenance work on my own cars, so having a spare care in the family makes that much more realistic as I can take my time with repairs. Also, I like different driving cars and sporty cars as much as I like driving this tank. Another way to justify my wants to the wifee.