Starter problems.

Discussion in 'Diesel Tech and 24 volts Systems' started by Pikku Monsteri, Dec 2, 2010.

  1. Pikku Monsteri

    Pikku Monsteri

    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    Rovaniemi Finland
    I am trying to figure out where to get a specific part of my starter as the shop working on the car can not source it and neither can the local Toyota dealership.

    The car in question is a 1978 BJ 40 with the engine from a BJ 42 (3.5L Turbo Diesel 3B) running both 24v and 12v systems.

    There is a lot of guessing going on as we are not sure of the age of the engine in the car nor what starter that is since the starter for the 3B engine should have 11 teeth but the one in there has only 9 teeth...and it seems to work quite well both on 12v and 24v somewhat puzzling the electronics shop that was trying to fix the starter.

    Here is a picture of my problem, any and all help is appreciated here(and i am in Finland so no point in telling me to contact this or that shop to have it fixed, i need parts) and the specific part i need is that small silver/metal cylinder sitting on the side/top/bottom of the red unit.

    [​IMG]

    and if that picture does not work here is a link to it on my flickr.com page

    01122010044 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!@@AMEPARAM@@http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5248/5225561337_12d7f27643_m.jpg@@AMEPARAM@@5225561337@@AMEPARAM@@12d7f27643
  2. Pikku Monsteri

    Pikku Monsteri

    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    Rovaniemi Finland
    A source here in Finland has told me that the starter i have is most likely one from a 1974-1977 BJ40.

    Any idea on where i might find a replacement would be most appreciated!
  3. impossible

    impossible

    Messages:
    128
    Location:
    Montana
    good link for looking up parts: ToyoDIY.com

    best of luck finding your part.
  4. Moe R

    Moe R

    Messages:
    512
    Location:
    CT
  5. lostmarbles

    lostmarbles SILVER Star

    Messages:
    7,359
    Location:
    New Zealand
    This is a bit of a puzzle PM.

    A BJ42 should have been given a 3.4L engine (3B) by the factory yet you say yours is 3.5L.

    And AFAIK a 1978 B-engined BJ40 should take exactly the same starter as any 3B-engined BJ42 if both are "factory/OEM". (That is, 2.5kW if 12V or 4.5kW if 24V with 11teeth & CW rotation etc)

    :frown:

    And why on earth should someone fit an early starter ... with less power and fewer teeth to your engine?

    And while a starter may turn and appear to work OK when the wrong voltage is applied to it during bench-testing, I would NOT expect it to provide reliable service with the wrong voltage.

    :cheers:
  6. Pikku Monsteri

    Pikku Monsteri

    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    Rovaniemi Finland
    All of this info i have from the previous owner. and the older starter thing is a guess from the way he seems to have just ****mixed it together any way he could.

    That car seems to have everything you are NOT supposed to do having been tested out on it.

    the 3.5L info he has given me is obviously false then as it is a 3B turbo engine(unless that is also untrue).

    The car needs a complete overhaul just to fix his mistakes/mixes.

    Starting to think this is a project/problem that is over my head to deal with...

    Seems that the starter is indeed a 1974-1977 type, so now i am trying to find that damn starter solenoid so i can get it working(for now...) but not having much luck.
  7. lostmarbles

    lostmarbles SILVER Star

    Messages:
    7,359
    Location:
    New Zealand
    This is the 12V starter that fits a late-model B-engine (as found in a 1977 onwards BJ40 I believe) or 3B (as found in any BJ42) PM: (Perhaps these pics will be useful to you?)

    Starter03.jpg

    Starter04.jpg

    Starter05.jpg

    And I've arrowed where the solenoid is on this starter. Just for the sake of random tech info... When energised, this solenoid moves the drive gear out to engage it with the flywheel ring-gear. And at the completion of this solenoid-travel it applies the juice to the starter motor windings and at the same time disconnects its own pull-in coil.... leaving just the less-powerful holding-coil to keep the solenoid "closed" during cranking.

    Or are you searching for your start RELAY (instead of starter solenoid)?

    Any chance of any pics of what you've actually got there?

    :cheers:

    PS. BTW... The 3B is actually a 3431cc engine and I have seen others at times refer to it as a 3.5L engine but 3.4 is obviously closer to being correct.
    Starter03.jpg Starter04.jpg Starter05.jpg
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2010
  8. Pikku Monsteri

    Pikku Monsteri

    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    Rovaniemi Finland
    Thanks lost marbles for that info and the pics, my starter is quite different from that.

    I had tried putting a picture into my first post but it does not seem to work...going to try again.

    01122010044 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!@@AMEPARAM@@http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5248/5225561337_12d7f27643_m.jpg@@AMEPARAM@@5225561337@@AMEPARAM@@12d7f27643

    hmm had to link it, it wont show the photo. Has that got something to do with my newbye status here or is it Flickr.com maybe?

    anyway the photo can be seen here:

    01122010044 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!@@AMEPARAM@@http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5248/5225561337_12d7f27643_m.jpg@@AMEPARAM@@5225561337@@AMEPARAM@@12d7f27643
  9. Pikku Monsteri

    Pikku Monsteri

    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    Rovaniemi Finland
    and again it does not work...if you get the yellow box that should contain a picture if you click on the top of that yellow box it should open up the picture on my flickr.com page.
  10. VTCDN

    VTCDN

    Messages:
    1,105
    Location:
    WA & BC
    Pikku Monsteri
    I can see your pictures , Posted.
    Your starter is nothing like my 3B's .
    Lost Marbles has posted pix of my 3Bs
    I have them in 12 V and 24V both are gear drive as in his pictures.

    Your pictures are poor , and the casting part numbers make no real reference to a parts book.


    VT
  11. lostmarbles

    lostmarbles SILVER Star

    Messages:
    7,359
    Location:
    New Zealand
    x2

    It certainly does look "early" and it does look like the vastly-inferior non-gear-reduction type.

    (Why would anyone do that? :meh:)

    The plot thickens!

    It makes one think that perhaps the flywheel ring-gear and bellhousing are "early" too. But why?

  12. Pikku Monsteri

    Pikku Monsteri

    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    Rovaniemi Finland
    Thanks for the info guys.

    Yeah i am at a loss here, can not figure out why the hell someone would do that...but then again the previous owner seems to have just done thing badly over all.

    This car needs a major overhaul simply due to his idiotic parts use and badly done work.

    Looks like i am going to have to try and sell it like it is and take a loss on that car, its beyond what i am able to do with no garage and little to work with.

    Such a shame, it was always a dream to get a BJ/FJ but it has turned into a really bad nightmare.
  13. BEE-JAY42

    BEE-JAY42

    Messages:
    457
    Location:
    North Queensland
    Have you tried fitting a gear reduction starter? From what i can see the 3B never came with the early type starter so it stands to reason that the two starter types are interchangable, I don't think the difference in flywheel numbers makes a difference.
  14. Pikku Monsteri

    Pikku Monsteri

    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    Rovaniemi Finland
    No i have not tried that, not even sure what starter i should be looking for to do that.
    Any ideas about what might be the correct one?
  15. lostmarbles

    lostmarbles SILVER Star

    Messages:
    7,359
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Running a search on "56010" (which apparently is on both your block and timing cover) suggests to me that your engine hasn't come from a BJ42 at all PM. (Or if it did ... the BJ42 had suffered a previous engine transplant!)

    I believe that if it comes from any landcruiser at all it is likely to come from a "Feb 1974 to Sept 1977 BJ40" which would make your engine a 2977cc B-diesel. (Like mine but earlier model.)

    You can confirm this by seeing if you have a big "B" in your block casting. (LH-rear beneath your intake manifold):

    BlockLH3.jpg

    This would explain the early-style starter motor.

    :beer:
    BlockLH3.jpg
  16. Pikku Monsteri

    Pikku Monsteri

    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    Rovaniemi Finland
    Thanks for that, if my memory is correct then there is a big B cast in the block.
    Its just about midnight here now so i will check it for certain tomorrow.

    Seems the Previous Owner had no clue as to what he was doing or even putting in the car...
  17. Pikku Monsteri

    Pikku Monsteri

    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    Rovaniemi Finland
    OK, seems my mind is half asleep here. Or at least not fast enough to keep up with my typing.

    The engine numbers in those pictures is from the original engine in the car...a 1978 BJ 40 so yeah that would be a 3L engine.

    But i will try and go to the garage where the car is being worked on and find any casting numbers i can and post them on here.
  18. lostmarbles

    lostmarbles SILVER Star

    Messages:
    7,359
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Cool.

    It would be nice to see a big "3B" in your block casting where the "B" is on mine. (That would certainly confirm that you do have the 3.4L engine.)
  19. VTCDN

    VTCDN

    Messages:
    1,105
    Location:
    WA & BC
    A few more engine pictures to be sure.
    But the one with the white dust all over and the number is the same as my 1982 &1984 3B , But not the 1977 b timing cover has.
    You should be able to take a picture and then in Advance , hit the paper clip and attach a pix of the engine. Make sure the format is Jpeg and small in bits&bytes :)

    VT
  20. Pikku Monsteri

    Pikku Monsteri

    Messages:
    39
    Location:
    Rovaniemi Finland
    I went today and checked out the engine in the cruiser and it does in fact have the 3B stamped into it.

    But bad news is that the shop tried to fit the 11 tooth starter that came with the 3B originally but it will not fit...so seems that the car has the B engine start wheel...

    If i change out the wheel to use the 3B starter will i have to change anything concerning the gear box?

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