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Starter Problem?

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by 92Cruiser, Jul 22, 2003.

  1. 92Cruiser

    92Cruiser

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    92, 172000. About every other time when starting the truck it will crank over just fine but when it fires the motor has a hard time running at first and after about ten seconds it seems to catch up and run perfect. The sound is kind of hollow like low compression during those first ten second. The other times it starts and runs like normal. I've checked for vacuum leaks with no luck. Ran injector cleaner and switched to premium fuel with no change. Any ideas?
     
  2. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    >> Any ideas? <<

    Fuel filter? There's also a cleanable filter in the tank but it's a PITA to check and clean.

    -B-
     
  3. thunder_horse

    thunder_horse

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    Same issue on my 92 LC, 134,000. I had an interested buy take it to the dealership for a mechanical inspection (decided not to sell it, just couldn't part) and they listed that it needed a tune up in a major way.
     
  4. 92Cruiser

    92Cruiser

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    I put in new plugs less than 6 months ago. The cap, rotor & wires are about a year old (OEM) so its up to date on that stuff. I did have to clean out the egr vacuum modulator/filter because it was completly plugged along with some of the vacuum hoses attached to it. I'm wondering if the egr valve itself is causing a problem. The only other thing I can come up with is the cold start injector. Any more thought?
     
  5. Seminole

    Seminole

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    92 cruiser ------ I've also got the same issue. Mine though, in the morning after sitting for 8-10 hrs will fire right up. In the afternoon at work after driving 22 miles and sitting for 8-10 hrs in the sun will take two tries and do exactly what you describe. Same deal less than 15k on plugs and OEM cap, rotor and wires. Haven't changed the fuel filter yet (I have one, but the one on there doesn't look that old). New EGR valve, cleaned vav. modulator. I was also thinking about the cold start injector. I hope to replace the Fuel filter this weekend and go from there. Anybody have any other suggestions?
     
  6. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    I've seen what seminole describes exactly. The fuel pump was the problem. Only happened when hot, once the fuel started to flow it would cool the pump so it would work fine. Hope this helps.
     
  7. 92Cruiser

    92Cruiser

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    Sem - Now that you've described what yours is doing thats exactly what mine does too. My EGR Valve and Fuel Filter are original. I've taken it to the one dealer here in Minneapolis that I trust and they won't change the Fuel Filter. The service manager said in the 14 years he has worked for Toyota he has never seen one replaced and that Toyota doesn't recommend it. Told me to save the $150 they would charge to do it.
     
  8. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    Toyota doesn't recommend a set "replacement interval", that doesn't mean that you would never need to change one. At 172,000 miles I would certainly replace it if it were my vehicle. If you think about what Rick said, a weak fuel pump pushing thru a filter with a bunch of miles on it could pose a problem.
    I have not had first-hand experience with this particular issue, but I would replace the fuel filter before I did anything else to see what happens. I replace the fuel filter on mine at around 45,000 mile intervals. When I shake the old ones out I always get crap out of them.
    The fuel filter for a 3FE is 23300-69035, list is $34.88, the fuel pump for 91-92 is a 23220-43070, list is $240.12 and it lives inside the fuel tank.

    Good luck, Dan.
     
  9. Seminole

    Seminole

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    :-\ C-dan , thanks for the PN's. I was hoping some one wouldn't mention the fuel pump!!!
    ALL - sounds like we are looking at the same problem, only difference seems to be who has done EGR work, but that doesn't seem to affect the problem. I am going to replace the Fuel filter this weekend and let everyone know.
    My question is why would it act up when sitting outside for at least 8hrs and not running around in town. I would exoect more problems with frequent starts and stops than from long trips. Mine ONLY does it at work when I am trying to go home. It Always starts on the second try? ???
     
  10. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    I'm not an expert with the EGR system but neither Seminole's or 92Cruiser's problem acts like an EGR problem. Both problems seem like a fuel supply problem to me.

    Easiest and cheapest fix is usually the fuel filter. Next is the in-tank fuel filter, then the fuel pump.

    -B-
     
  11. yomama

    yomama

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    [quote author=Seminole link=board=2;threadid=3870;start=0#msg28521 date=1058977070]
    :-\ Mine ONLY does it at work when I am trying to go home. It Always starts on the second try? ???
    [/quote]

    Sounds like to me that you are just not putting in enough hours at work :D

    Sorry, couldn't resist that one.

    Yomama
     
  12. Seminole

    Seminole

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    ;) Yomama -- my boss would agree with you?
    I also think this problem is not EGR related. But the singular nature of my problem has me stumped.
    WTH- if at first you don't succeed, throw money (parts) at it!
     
  13. yomama

    yomama

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    I would put the EGR in the "drivability" catagory rather then a starting issue.
    Starting problems = fuel or spark.

    Yomama
     
  14. 92Cruiser

    92Cruiser

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    Would'nt it make sense that if our Fuel Filter was plugged that it would show signs while driving like loss of power or a rough idle? This morning while starting the truck it stoped turning over and starting turning over again a second later without me taking the key off of the start position. I'm I losing my starter contacts?
     
  15. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    A restricted fuel filter will usually not pass enough fuel for power situations but idle fine. But I beleive Junk proved that wrong with his truck. The starter sounds like a contact issue. Your situation is going to be a challenge to resolve and you might have to resort to some TroubleSwapping :(. Starter contacts are cheap and easily installed as well as a fuel filter, maybe not so easily installed. Think about what your feeding it as well. Might try a different gas station especially one that moves alot of product so it will be fresh.
     
  16. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    I believe the 3FE fuel filtter is easier to change. IIRC it lives on the RH inner frame rail near the front axle housing instead of under the intake manifold on the 1FZ.
     
  17. Seminole

    Seminole

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    :mad: C-dan is right (as usual) but it is not much less of a PITA to R/R. I cleaned the grease/grime off of mine last night to see what I needed to get at it. It is easier from the top,but you still need long arms or extensions to get it. I am replacing it this afternoon or tomorrow morning. I hope that does it, I don't want to replace the fuel pump. :mad:
     
  18. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    seminole,

    If you haven't done it yet, Here are a couple ideas: Remove the fuel cap before cracking the lines, this will relieve pressure in the fuel tank and reduce the ammount of fuel going down your arms. 2nd, be sure to use fitting wrenches. Regular open-end wrenches will round-off the fittings before you can say "Junk's momma!" :eek:

    Dan.
     
  19. 92Cruiser

    92Cruiser

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    Well, yesterday I replaced the fuel filter and I've already seen a difference. I guess it needed it after going 172,000 miles. It has a smoother idle, more zip and unless I'm crazy, it seems to have less backlash in the drivetrain. Could there have been that much stress on the engine not getting enough fuel?
     
  20. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    >> It has a smoother idle, ... it seems to have less backlash in the drivetrain. <<

    Whatever slack you have in your drivetrain is still there. A lower idle speed may explain a reduced "clunking."
    -B-