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should it stay or should it go?

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by semlin, Apr 7, 2003.

  1. semlin

    semlin rocker

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    Okay folks, am approaching the last straw here. Need your votes...

    Some may have noticed that my used cruiser has turned out to be, well, used. &nbsp:During the weekend I pulled the interior rear panel and got a good look at body damage in the right rear quarter panel that I noticed soon after I bought it but have been avoiding confronting. Although they cleaned it up very well from the outside, from the inside you can see it had a pretty big hit up at the top of the wheel well and it crumpled the wheel well behind it. Instead of replacing the panel they beat it out and bondoed it. Trouble is that water is leaking somewhere in the seam between the wheel well and the body panel so that this panel was full up to the drain height with water and about 3 inches of silt. At the bottom of the quarter panel I thus have pitted surface rust on the inside. I also have an inch and half of water in there today just from driving to work in the rain when I had it dry last night. I took it to a body shop that I trust at lunch. They doubt they could just fix the seam and suspect rust is already loose in that area. They say the only way to fix it would be to reskin the rear quarter and put a new wheelwell in to do it properly. That would be nearly $4000 so it’s not an option.

    So here’s the deal. I bought the cruiser to keep for a long time. Because they sell high up here, I got it cheap enough that I could still sell it and break even on all my costs to date. My options are to sell it now and buy another, try to find someone to do a weld repair that probably won’t take, or drill holes in the bottom of the panel to let the water out, paint rust guard everywhere and wait for it to slowly rot.

    the truck has
    125,000 miles
    lockers
    new 31" BFG AT
    new toyota muffler with lifetime guarantee
    uses no oil, but I have a main seal leak that weeps and a seal at the front that is a little dirty.
    repacked front end
    leaky sunroof drains!

    On the down side I like this truck in spite of its flaws and am starting to know those flaws. I will also have to go out of BC to find another truck which means buying long distance. This is risky and a royal pain and how I got into this mess in the first place (the inspection I paid for missed the damage and so did I when I went to pick it up). If I sold I’d probably pull the ARB front bar off to keep for the new one and put on a factory bumper if I can find one.

    So here’s the question, assume if I sell I’ll have $12,000US max to replace it and I want lockers. Not sure if I'd be trading in one headache for another. Should I hang on to it or sell? Vote now and vote often.
     
  2. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    Simon,

    What happens if whoever buys it ends up here? :eek:

    Is the problem in the inner to outer wheelhouse or outer wheelhouse to quarter?

    Can you post pics of the inside where they worked it?

    I have a VERY talented body arteest pal who helped me restore my '70 Challenger R/T S/E. I would like to show him....


    Regards.....Dan :beer:
     
  3. CDN_Cruiser

    CDN_Cruiser

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    Semlin:

    That is bad news. If you can really break even on the truck, I would suggest that you sell it. I'm surprised that you don't have much of a supply in BC. In Ontarion, I managed to find a good one (I knew all the repairs I was getting into) for an ok price with 79,000km after about a 3 month search. &nbsp:During that period I saw a lot of crap - including a good accident truck with a VERY poor repair.

    If you get ~US$12K that implies about C$18K, which seems cheap. Out here 97's go for high C$20's

    Cheers, Hugh
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    i have heard that the rear sliding windows can leak at their lower frame.bearing this in mind is it possible that the tweaking that it took might have caused this frame area to be leaking xtremly badly?
    if so it might be possible to seal off at the window frame?
    if i am off track i am sorry,and let me say i am sorry to hear that you found your truck was damaged.i dont know why but sometimes we are just blind to these things when we are looking to buy!!!
    my truck had a slightly tweaked front bumper on the drivers side,and a small rust spot(which i still believe was covered up from actual sight)the rust spot showed up on the long 6 hour drive home(also bought mine out of state,none around here)while it was raining like mad the whole trip home.
    i have finally addressed the rust issue(only to the point of scraping the rust out of the gasket area around the window and coating the affected area with por15)see pic here:
    http://webpages.charter.net/cruiserhead/LandCruiser stuff/Pics/Rust spot repaired.jpg (at least the rust spot is no longer leaving a stain trail down the hatch like before) :cry: (it was driving me crazy)the estimate at the local dealer was 488.00 without the little gold emblem hahaha


    i didnt mean to blather on about my truck,what i would think about is how does the damage affect you ie: does it make you want to sell or do you like your truck enough to keep it with its history?
    you can always advertise and see what happens or look for another truck(and try to trade if its a dealer)or then sell to obtain the second truck but all those things take a lot of time and effort,but i am not telling you anything cause you went through this with the first one huh?

    goodluck in however you go with this

    doug
     
  5. Wrench

    Wrench One Bashed Up 80

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    I say keep it. And try to fix it. It sounds like you have a good rig there. You will lose alot of money if you sell it and buy a new one. It just never works out for the good. You have an 80 now just fix it and enjoy.
     
  6. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    FWIW....
    Factory diff locks comprise approximately 7% of the total build................. :dunno:
     
  7. Wrench

    Wrench One Bashed Up 80

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    Yeah basicly lockers are a free option. Most people don't even know they are there.
     
  8. CDN_Cruiser

    CDN_Cruiser

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    Sorry Semlin, I just looked at your sig - I thought you had a LX450 - these are relatively common and all should be off lease and in the market. And, I think at least in Canada, all have lockers. The actaul TLCs that I found in Ontario were POS - and the same price as 450's - go for the 450 if you can

    If not, I'll buy your bumper :D

    Cheers, Hugh
     
  9. semlin

    semlin rocker

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    cruiserdan, if I sell I will declare the damage when I sell. Hopefully if the buyer showed up here he would understand my decision. I will try to get you those photos. Trying an autobody shop that specializes in restorations is also a good suggestion. Even if could repair it physically but not cosmetically I'd live with it since the fender flare and bumper cover up the whole area in question.

    Hugh, cruisers in BC sell at a big premium to the US due to lack of supply so I went south. I paid $10,500US for the one I own in Salt Lake from the original owner's son with a written warranty that there was no body damage ever, which I thought was a heck of a deal. I guess I could sue him if I wanted to hire a lawyer in SLC but... After taxes, duty, travel, new tires, muffler and some repairs I am in for CDN$23,000. The cheapest post-92 80 I saw in BC in 4 months of looking was a badly rusting 93 with 160k and bald street tires that sold in two days for $26,500 which is over $30k with taxes. Hence I think I can still break even while being honest.

    Doug it is definitely not the windows. It's coming from the seam where the wheel well meets the quarter panel.

    I'm torn on this one. I probably got what I paid for price wise. I also like the truck itself. It has grown on me. I just can't bear the thought of having it rot out from under me.

    ah well guys thanks for letting me vent... I welcome more wisdom.
     
  10. Wrench

    Wrench One Bashed Up 80

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    I'm starting to feel your pain. I had an 86 Toyota 4x4 that had the typical rusty bed along the seam. Well I battled it for 5 years until it got so bad I slapped a new one on. That one rusted out in 5 years! I was bull. I really liked the truck but if there is one thing I can't stand it is rust. I eventualy sold it and got my present LC. I am happy now. I just hope this one does not rust out.
     
  11. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    Semlin,

    On the positive side...
    You have a truck that you like. You've already started adding great accessories like the ARB. It's got the desireable diff lock option and on a '93 that might be more rare than other years. It has low mileage for a 93, new tyres, and a good drivetrain (you only mentioned a minor leak.)

    The above are EXPENSIVE when there is a problem. You've already done the front axle service and you are going to get the roof leaks fixed (WE PROMISE!)

    The "good" things about your truck (e.g. the driveline) will keep it running for another 175,000 miles with good maintenance.

    Now, on the negative side....
    It was wrecked on the Rt rear and not repaired properly. The PO (may he rot in hell) lied to you. This could be worse (the rear hatch or the front end!) I'm guessing you're happy with the overally paint and finish on the truck and with the interior. You just need to get that leak in the rear qtr fixed.

    I vote to keep it and work with someone to get it fixed. If you plan to keep it pristine forever like me and Tyler then get it fixed the best way you can afford. If you plan to wheel it and know that it is going to get tree bumps and other things over the years then just fix it where it doesn't leak.


    My 2 pence.
    -B-
     
  12. Jim_Phillips

    Jim_Phillips

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    Keep it. You can't fall out of love with a vehicle just because you think you may have a few problems in the future. Fix the damage and be pleased you spotted it.

    What you're saying is akin to splitting with a girlfriend because 2 months into the relationship you find out she wears contact lenses. :eek:

    Cheers, Jim :beer: :beer:
     
  13. Rogue

    Rogue

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    Awwww. Contacts? That means imperfection.

    I would dump her and find a chick with 20/20 vision.

    Am I off topic? :D
     
  14. Hltoppr

    Hltoppr SILVER Star

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    My vote is to keep it! It's mechanically strong, you got a good deal on it, and it's got the options you want. I don't think you'd find a comparable rig for the $10K you could get out of it.

    Check out other places for the parts. www.cruiserparts.net comes to mind, although I've never done business with them. I bet you can have the repairs done for less expense.

    Otherwise, your main concern is rust, correct? I think your idea about drilling the drain holes and painting to slow the rot would at least give you time to put away some #6 funds to get the repair made. Until then, you've got a nice rig that you're not afraid to wheel.

    (Of course, you could always park in some other guy's blind spot and wait for him to back up, "accidentally" hitting that corner, and letting him worry about the repair..... 8):eek:)

    -H-
     
  15. landtank

    landtank SILVER Star

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    Semlin,
    Your story was my worst mightmare when I was looking for my Cruiser. I probably paid too much for mine, in 1999 a 96 with 38k for 31,500, but that is how I delt with it. However there is no garantee that the next Cruiser will be better either. If you think this problem will be unsurmountable for you to get over and is going to ruin the experience of owning it then you should get rid of it. But if it is something only you know is there and can be inexpensive to fix ,not meaning like new, and that is the only problem then I'd keep it. You might start focusing on all the possitive aspects of the truck and not the 1 negative. Hell you got the lockers in there, not sure how it is in other areas but I looked/called on about 20 before I found that and ended up walking away because the previous JackAss parked the truck in the sun and left the SunRoof blind open all the time. Completely destroying the leather in the back seat. Let us know what you deside.

    Rick
     
  16. thorvald

    thorvald .......

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    the fact that your thinking about selling a cruiser makes me think its not the right one for you. So far I havent had such thoughts, even though my 40 needs a LOT of work, and my 80 needs a paint job in the least, not to mention various options for "improvements" . If you can come out ahead and get a "better" cruiser, Id do that. I love my cruisers even with all the little and big things they need, and look forward to spending money on them. Find one youll be happy putting money into. The money wont come back, but its the best 4x4 ever made, enjoy.
     
  17. Strider

    Strider

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    Semlin,
    I'd keep it.... you know it... it's manageable... you'll love it more.
    and as support for my suggestion I'll defer to my own cruiser acquisition saga for those interested.

    preface
    I've never had a 4wd or truck of any kind. In fact, I'm just coming out of a BMW in search of a larger, more family friendly vehicle. I have friends in TLC's who love them [all mall cruisers who just like them for reliability and don't wheel their junk].

    actual story
    I started shopping cruisers and test drove some, started hanging out on chat boards, etc and decided it was definitely what I wanted to get. Long story short, I found a '96 this Christmas in Atlanta for $14,500 with only 110k miles.
    'Why so cheap? I asked' well, the PO told me that it had a salvage title becuase it had been in a wreck. I ran the VIN and this was indeed the case. The wreck was before he had owned it and for 3 years he hadn't had any trouble. He said everything worked and hadn't given him any trouble [but he was a mall cruiser too and to boot, it was his wife's car] Consequently they'd never locked hubs or wheeled.. hell, probably never even driven on the grass.
    I noticed right away that it had been repainted [black from red undercoat]. I asked about it and we both decided it was because of the "accident" in it's past life. So, for the price, and the non-noticeable issues, I bought it and drove my new precious pet back home to SC.

    The minute I pulled in the driveway, the check engine light came on.
    Bad O2 sensors.
    But wait... I took it to the mechanic after tons of troubleshooting with the help of this forum, and they're not bad. I called the PO and sure enough, he had them replaced 2 weeks prior. [the beginning of some little things this HONEST PO hadn't told me] I've chased that issue since New Year's Day and still don't know what's wrong. My next best guess is a possible ground fault from paint job? [still looking].
    My security system is also kind of buggy... beeps only when it feels led by the spirit. I replaced the piezo.. no solution.. only a new voice for the spirit-led chirper.

    So I got fed up and decided to really find out what the history of the bruiser was. I thought I'd start by re-running the VIN with another VIN service. As I was looking I saw the VIN on the windows didn't match the VIN on the dash. In fact, from all 4 windows I got 2 VIN's alone. Then finally, the piece de resistance, there's a THIRD VIN located on the drivers door post that is not an automaker's VIN at all, but a State of Alabama identification number.

    I dug out my spying glass, hat, and pipe for what was going to be SERIOUS investigative work.

    The dash VIN was from a car last registered in Alabama. The windows VINS were from North Carolina. I started by calling the Alabama DMV and asked why there was a strange Ala ID on my car. She said it usually meant that cars with salvage titles usually had more than one VIN associated in rebuilding so a new ID had to be created.
    --NOT GOOD!--

    I called and paid for title searches in both Alabama and NC on the VINs. I found out who the previous owner was for the Alabama VIN was. I found out who had insured the vehicle, but strangely missing was the damage report for the "accident". And another thing... the Title search said the car was GREEN, not RED....! I dig FURTHER.....

    I called the insurance company and asked for the adjusters group and ultimately ended up talking to Tammy Sue in the auction group. She forwarded to me the accident report placed by the adjuster.
    The year: 1997.
    1996 Toyota Land Cruiser... color: Green.
    The car was on a 3 year lease and one year into it was in an accident where it ROLLED down an embankment! About $35,000 in damages according to the adjuster's report... so they totalled it and sold it to some guy in Alabama.
    He's an enterprising guy trying to make a buck, so he sees all that's wrong with the carriage of the car from the roll, but strangely nothing's wrong with the engine, undercarriage. What does he do? He pulls the two apart... entirely... and finds a 1993 RED TLC and bolts it to the frame. He then cleverly re-uses the 1996 dash VIN plate to make sure all VIN's run as a 1996 bruiser.
    POOF, INSTANT 1996 FZJ80 with low mileage!!!

    To make a long story end... I'm still chasing the few things that nobody found during this recovery/reconstruction process like the possible faulty wiring harness... the rear lockers not working for some random reason, poorly seated windshield [leaks a little], etc. But in the process of all this chasing, I've had the entire bruiser apart at one point or another on the floor of my garage and I know it's heart and soul.... or I will shortly.

    Here's the point.. I know it's faults... I hope I know all the skeletons in the closet... I've become the zen master of my Green/Red/Black 1996/1993 bruiser with the schizophrenic disorder, and now I feel like I know exaclty what's ahead of us. In fact, now I'll probably have more fun wheeling it because I know it's not perfect to begin with. Appropriately, the name of my bruiser stems from all this research, and Psycho and I are ready to hit the trail!

    On your bruiser, you now have the upper hand.
    You know all the issues you'll need to watch out for and approximate timelines for when they'll happen. You know cheap ways to work around them and expensive ways to work around them. This is MUCH better then not knowing the CORE of a problem and spending money hoping it will fix the issue only to find out you wasted a $grand$ chasing a symptom. You know for sure and can choose when/how to spend your hard earned money [and when to say 'heck with it' and spend it on no6's] :D

    So, sorry for the windy story, but I'd stick with her.
     
  18. tenncrusher

    tenncrusher

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    Man, Strider has one hell of a story.
     
  19. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    Matt,
    Thanks for sharing.

    (Why does this feel a little like group therapy)


    There's a moral in there for all of us, especially for Simon. If Matt can love Psycho then we can certainly overlook the few blemishes our PO's left us with.

    -B-
    (Counting my lucky stars for Pristine)
     
  20. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Supporting Vendor Moderator

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    You guys got me worried now.......Mine came to me on an MSO.............Do you think I'm ok? :ugh: