Plz comment on PPI inspection results... (2 Viewers)

[mercfan]

Got a PPI done on a cruiser that I'm looking at. The mechanic I spoke to told me that there were few minor fluid leaks that he noticed - one of them was the Distributor O-ring leaking oil?! Wasn't aware that there was oil under the distributor cap - can anybody comment on that?

They did a compression test on it and said that they got 115-120 on all cylinders - he said that it was good results. Do you guys agree?!

THx,
James

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Can you give us some details on the truck? Year....millage......

The compression seems a bit low to me. I checked mine (1FZ) before I did my HG and it was 165-170 on all cylinders. Mine has 150k miles on it, the Distributor O ring seals the body of the distributor to the head. When that seal goes bad you get oil leaking out around the head/distributor area.

If I remember right the FSM states the max compression to be 170 and minimum 115psi with no more than 5-10% (cant remember exactly) between all cylinders.

 

[mercfan]

Can you give us some details on the truck? Year....millage......

The cruiser is a '95 (build date 07/95) with 165K on it - locked. No maintenance history.

 

[e9999]

mine around 190.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/343956-more-compression-test-numbers-1fz-fe.html

in there I quoted 128 minimum, probably from FSM

I suppose the measurements do depend on the instrument some but your figures do seem low. Surprising they would be that low yet uniform.

It's not a trivially quick job to do the compression test on the 80. Lotsa plugs on that thing , gotta take stuff out of the way and #6 has a bad rep. I would not be surprised if the techs would be reluctant to do it for a low fee PPI. You sure they really did the test and didn't just pick numbers out of a hat?

 

[Hoosier Daddy]

Compression tests at a mile elevation (Denver) are going to be lower than elsewhere in the country. It's a piece of cake to replace the distributor O-ring.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Oh yeah forgot to point out my compression test was done on a stone cold engine. Have not tested it warm.

 

[mercfan]

Compression tests at a mile elevation (Denver) are going to be lower than elsewhere in the country.

Hoosier - the vehicle is in Georgia - that's where they've done the test... having said that - I have no proof that they actually did the testing on the rig. Someone above said that it's not a quick test yet I was a bit surprised by the quick turnaround of the test. I asked about the compression numbers and without hesitation he said they were all 115-120 on each.

Front main seal has a leak too - how difficult is that job... I guess I've read somewhere that it's a bear to take that big nut off of the crank... how painful is this job?

 

[e9999]

well, I didn't mean it takes hours. Probably took me an hour+ the first time i did it, while looking at everything and figuring it all on the way and taking my sweet time. I'm no pro. But I don't know that a pro could do it in 5 minutes either. Maybe 15-20? And that may be considered a long time for a standard inspection? I don't know.
I should take back the question about them possibly faking it. No obvious evidence that they did. And didn't mean to scare you. Just surprised at the low consistent numbers. And I know that the standard PPI is usually very cursory and mostly visual. Plus you're states away, I imagine clearly a one-time customer, etc.

I think you asked the right question and it's worth digging here a bit. On the face of it your numbers are below or around the minimum spec by Toyota and much below other measurements. Caution is in order.

 

[lndcruz]

Compression does seem quite low. Mine had 180-185psi with 200k and the original head gasket.

 

[mercfan]

I called the shop again and spoke to the same guy - he said he drove the car himself and the car runs strong.... He says he's been doing this long time and has no reservations about the engine compression. I asked him to verify with the tech that did that work that those are actual numbers and not estimates. He's supposed to let me know this afternoon... thx everybody

 

[Kernal]

How much did they charge for the inspection?

 

[foeix]

I was lucky to find Murf on here to do my PPI - he works at Camelback Toyota in Arizona. I was buying the truck from Virginia so a proper PPI was critical.

I paid $80 for the basic PPI and an additional $80 for a compression test and block sniffer test to check the head gasket. My compression numbers ranged between 155 - 160. Also the sniffer test gave me a good peace of mind that the HG was ok for the immediate future.

The truck has been flawless for the past year and 12K miles. If you can find a Cruiser oriented shop to do the PPI that would be my suggestion.

 

[mercfan]

How much did they charge for the inspection?

$120.00

 

[packetstormin]

Compression numbers do see a bit low. Maybe you can use the lower numbers to bargain a better price on the rig?

 

[e9999]

well, the question is what to do about these numbers.
Either those are correct and the compression is IMHO too low and I would walk away, discount notwithstanding. Why start with a weak engine?
Or the numbers are not correct and I'd want to find out what they really are if I'd really want that particular rig for whatever reason. Which would likely mean I'd do another compression test at a particularly trustworthy place.

that the tech tells me that he's done this for a long time and it drove fine would be just about immediately disregarded in light of the figures mentioned out there as minimum per FSM, and in fact increase his reading significantly on my BSmeter...

 

[Rix86]

By themselves, yes, the compression numbers are low.
HOWEVER......
Compression tests are really easy to get large variances with.
if you're really concerned about it, get a leakdown test done.
it's far more accurate, and if you have high leakdown, you can tell where it's leaking

For 120 bucks, I'm going to GUESS a compression test wasn't actually done.
the worst part about a front crank seal is getting the crank pulley bolt out.
It's huge, and it's IN THERE. 320 ft-lbs IIRC?
a 3/4 breaker bar , a pipe, and a chain wrench usually do the job.
You'll want to replace the oil pump o-ring too. You'll need a #3 phillips, a hammer, and some patience. put the screwdriver int he screw, whack it a few times, then whack it as you turn it.
I use a bit and a 1/4' wrench, as there isn't enough room for an impact screwdriver.
Distributor o-ring is EASY. Just make sure it's not leaking through the distributor shaft.

 

[mercfan]

well, the question is what to do about these numbers.

If someone could post a pic from the FSM that shows the range of acceptable compression numbers for a '95 FZJ80 I'd appreciate... just in case I get into a sword fight with these guys at Toyota... they seemed to get pretty defensive last time and they don't wanna lose face... but I wanna make sure I'm getting the right information from them. At this point I'd rather hear them say that they didn't run the test and they just estimated it... If those numbers are indeed real then I'm in a real jam. The seller has already told he won't go any lower. It seems like a real good cruiser otherwise.... already bought the ticket one-way... I could still walk away but I'd be loosing $250 total.... I could swallow it but I don't wanna walk away too soon.

Had another thought that perhaps they did the test on a cold engine... what does the FSM say about that... this is a source of debate on the Mercedes forum but at least on an MB the test should be performed on an engine at (or near) operating temperature....

 

[lndcruz]

From what I've read you should have the engine warm and test it with the throttle held open.

 

[e9999]

interesting, this test was done at a Toyota dealership eh...? Not that they are necessarily more honest than independents.

Sometimes it's best to walk away if there are doubts. The $250 loss may seem hard to swallow now but it would pale compared to what it would cost to deal with a bad engine later on.

Why don't you try to find and pay a local Mudder or cruiserhead $100 to check the compression for you?


oh, and about the leakdown tests, I beg to differ. I played a bit with that and I'm pretty sure that the "leak" numbers are much less absolute for those than for a compression test. A specific number on a leakdown test would mean nothing much to me unless I'd knew the specific (critical!) instrument used and know already a range of "normal" measurement for that specific instrument for that specific engine. A leakdown test would be especially useful to find and identify a problem with a specific cylinder, but here there was (supposedly?) very consistent numbers for all cylinders. So I don't think that a leakdown test would help a lot with this particular situation. (Unless all valves are grossly leaking all exactly at the same rate etc, which is rather unlikely.)

 

[mercfan]

Why don't you try to find and pay a local Mudder or cruiserhead...

I'd love to... anybody wanna do it?! The truck is in Atlanta, GA. I have asked for local help on some rigs but the participation was spotty...

I've called the tech at the Toyota dealer and asked for him to call me back - no answers to date. I've called and spoken with an assistant service manager - he was sympathetic and at least acknowledged that the numbers for that vehicle year should have been better (said he'd expect between 160-180). He promised to get with the tech and get back to me but so far nothing... Now I'm worried... finding a cruiser has been the most frustrating thing. Months of searches, disappointments and stress - walked away twice only to be pulled back in by some 'dark force'... and now... more stress and heartache. Sigh...