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painting my 40 series

Discussion in '40- & 55-Series Tech' started by bj42turbo, Jun 7, 2003.

  1. bj42turbo

    bj42turbo

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    Well i have finally bitten the bullet, I've decided the respray my SWB 40 series landrusier (hard top). After weeks of prep next weekend it is time for the scary part.....the painting. My question is how much paint will i Need and dose anyone know the colour code for the original white roof.
    P.S..Any last words of advise like "dont do it" :G
     
  2. Degnol

    Degnol

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    Depends on how "deep" you are going with disassembly. I took mine completely apart and painted everything inside and out. I primed with Urethane catalyzed primer, and followed with 3 coats of catalyzed acrylic enamel( Nason by DuPont about $50 a gallon including activator and reducer) Took a little over a gallon. Although not a fancy material, the acrylic enamel is forgiving, ie can sand out runs or orangepeel and polish. It's spottable and fairly UV resistant. If my cruiser sat outside all the time, I'd put clearcoat over the top.
    HTH
    Ed Long
    I used a standard premix color, BRG :)
     
  3. Degnol

    Degnol

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    Oh, I forgot, for the top and bezel I just used Nason's white. Like whatever they think is white, looks great IMHO
    Ed
     
  4. Peggsy

    Peggsy

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    Mine took five litres of dulux acrylic and the colour was dune beige, but that was stripped back to the tub and each panel painted separately with plenty of paint. It got probably five coats of the top coat all up. If I did it again though I'd use 2 pack, bit more hassle to spray but it's a much tougher paint. The dulux stuff was about $75 (aussie) per litre then but I think it's about $90 or so now. Most people seem to get away with less than 4 litres for just a respray, just depends how many coats you wanna give her. I didn't bother to paint the roof cause one of these days I'm gonna get a new one, but any gloss white should do, one litre tops.
     
  5. CruisinGA

    CruisinGA

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    Too much money and time for me...
    I'm thinkin rattle can camo :D 8)
     
  6. bj42turbo

    bj42turbo

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    Thanks Guys,
    Only painting the external, not really sure how many coats it will need though
     
  7. offcamber40

    offcamber40

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    Hey brock05,

    Im in the same boat as you, Im going to be painting mine in the next couple of weeks.. I've taken mine down to metal and pulled everything out of the interior. I've got all the windows out right now, and its almost ready. I am going to use a metal etching primer, followed by a sandable laquer primer. I'm then going to use a primer sealer for better corrosion protection. Here is the part that I'm not sure about.. I'm thinking about using a Urethane acrylic for the topcoat b/c it seems very durable and I dont have access to a bake bay. The Urethane paint seems to have a good chemical drying properties.. anyone else had luck with this.. I am also looking for info on a primer to use over my aluminum rock panels, will any primer work? Hope some of this info helps you out brock05.

    BTW when it is all painted I think I am going to use Herculiner on the rear tub.. anyone else had good luck with the stuff, or should I go Rhino?
     
  8. Degnol

    Degnol

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    You only need self etching primer for aluminum, but that may be the case since you mentioned aluminum rockers. I used the Duplicolor truckbed lining on the inside of my tub, you can colorcoat that and it looks nice, I didn't and I regret it. As for topcoat, depends on what your primary use is. If you offroad a lot and are subjecting it to a lot of scratches and dings, you want something that is spottable, like you can paint the owie without having to paint the whole panel. Urethanes are generally clearcoated, but there are some single stage urethanes. For the steel, I'd use a urethane primer, it is pricey compared to lacquer, but well worth it in the long run IMHO.
    Ed :)
     
  9. toddslater

    toddslater SILVER Star

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    In addition to what Degnol said....I'd spray base coat/clear coat acrylic urethane versus the single stage. It is actually easier to spot back in. ....Fix your damage, spray on the color, and spray on the clear coat. Wet sand and buff and you'll never know what hit ya.
     
  10. woodchuck

    woodchuck

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    I just finished my rig two weeks ago. I used a single stage polyurethane. This is supposed to be among the toughest paint that is available. Perfect for an offroad rig. I'm not too sure which is better single or two stage though. I did the entire outside, disassembled (both sides of fenders, etc.) as well as the inside and outside of the hardtop. I bought a gallon and nearly all was used. As for the self etching primer, I used anywhere that I went to bare metal. This is what the paint shop had to be done. Valspar makes a cool product that is a self etching primer, buildable as well as a sealer depending on how much you reduce it.
    As fo the white top, the paint code for my '76 was 012 or t-12 or ppg 883. the color is cygnus white. ***Make sure that you have them mix this paint and check the color before you walk out of the store.*** I am somewhat disappointed with the color. It almost looks green to me rather than white. The color looks white/green on the color chart as well. This color is not what you are used to seeing on fj's. They are usually bright white or maybe yellowish white. Anyway, I got a quart of the white and it was just enough to do the top and the grill.
     
  11. bj42turbo

    bj42turbo

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    I Think i will steer away from using the original white and choose something else that is more of a brilliant white.
     
  12. Sparky_Mark

    Sparky_Mark

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    Brock05,
    I spent a lot of time (2 months) researching what paint to use and tried to make an informed decision based on what I could learn. Your question is not a simple one. You will get a lot of conflicting answers. I'm fortunate to work with an automotive paint expert here in the Detroit area who could advise me on all of my quesions. Here's SOME of my lessons learned...

    Paint - there are several different paint choices - lacquer, acrylics, enamels, and urethanes. Within those choices, there are more choices like 1K or 2K (2 component paints use an activator); single stage or base coat clear coat; durability; gloss level; etc. By the way, 3 quarts should be more than enough, add 1 quart of activator and you've got a gollon to do at least 2 coats with plenty left to touch up with. Then there's the primer...

    Primer - Todays paint coatings are formulated as a "system". The data sheet for the top coat will have listed recommended primers. Ask the paint guy which primer can be used over your existing paint to provide good adhesion. &nbsp:DON'T MIX PRIMER TYPES AND TOP COAT TYPES!! (It's like "crossing the streams". It's bad, very bad - remember Ghost Busters).

    So what's the best? 2K urethanes (that's not an opinion, that's test data), but they are also the most expensive.

    How much do you care - I figured that it was worth my time to use the best paint and good equipment the first time to get good durability, fade resistance, gloss, and flexibility. &nbsp:Do you plan on beating the hell out of your truck? Maybe 1K single stage paint is right for you in that case, but it will not hold up well to the elements. It depends on what you will be doing with your rig and how much maintenance you plan on in the future.

    Time - I have some serious doubts about getting a good looking paint job in a weekend. I'm assuming that you will be disassembling the front end and the hard top completely. There's a whole weekend in prep work alone. Then you have to let the paint dry for a few days before you can put it all back together. Plan on having your truck down for a while.

    I myself used a PPG system: CRE-904 primer (2K) and for the top coat AUE-300 (also 2K). It's an LIC (light industrial coating) and I used it because of it's excellent rust inhibitive and durability properties. I got a lot of orange peel because it was my very first painting experience and it was very thick paint, but I can buff out the orange peel if I want. I stayed away from clear coats because I know that I will be touching up a lot (you cannot paint over clear coats, you have to sand the area off completly before you paint).

    Start by looking at data sheets. They will give you an idea of how well they perform and what it takes to put them on. If you can't get a data sheet, don't use it. Here's the link to a site that has data sheets for what I used for reference:
    http://www.ppg.com/cr-refinish/phase1/frmFindProduct.asp
    http://www.ppg.com/refinishftpsite/docs/LIC_CRE904_907.PDF
    http://www.ppg.com/refinishftpsite/docs/LIC5_AUE300.pdf

    Hard top white - Use the same kind of paint, so you can use the activator for it (assuming 2K here). I used a common formulation that all manufacturers are familiar with - "Appliance White". It looks very good in my opinion.

    Sorry for the long response - there's a lot to think about, I hope you can use some of what I learned. Good luck!
     
  13. bj42turbo

    bj42turbo

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    Wookchuck
    Thanks very much for the advise i have taken a lot of what you said on board. And have decided to put it on hold for this weekend while i research it more.

    Regards, Darren (brock05) :eek: :-/
     
  14. bj42turbo

    bj42turbo

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    mark
    Thanks for the info it certainly open my eyes, i thought paint was paint. i will check out ppg site

    Regards, Darren (brock05)
     
  15. FJ60

    FJ60

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    dayum, I think I will get 10 cans of dupont aeresol spray paint in "smurf blue" and just spray the s*** out of it :D

    very good info guys (I feel smarter just reading it) I have done very little work on my 78 because I was afraid that my prep work would just get sanded away if I decided to pay someone else to do it.

    The one thing I have learned is not to mix brand names or paint types (as stated above) all my cleanup and rust control has been covered up with rustoleum industrial primers because I HAD to put something on there :dunno: I hope it doesn't have to go to bare metal again!!!
     
  16. pvaman

    pvaman

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    My '85 60 really needs this -- it's kind of the next thing on the list. The paint is oxidizing really bad. Question. Do i need to sand it down to the metal? How tough is it to remove all the glass and rubber/trim?

    I've got a decent gun but no pnumatic sanding equipment <-- do i need a jitterbug sander and one of those long thin sanders in order to do this right? I'd assume so.
     
  17. toddslater

    toddslater SILVER Star

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    Sparky Mark,

    While I am in agreement with most everything you said and I don't mean to pick nits etc.. etc....but their are a few things that require a little clarification and/or emphasis added. First straight lacquer is really old school and I don't know a lot of people that shoot it as steady diet. Likewise, straight enamel...sucked in the 70's and 80's cheap and it showed IMO. Most everthing these days is base coat clear coat acrylic urethane (or very near to)...excellent quality and durability. As you stated their is also the single stage varient (clear is in with the color).

    As far as paint quantity etc...I assume you had paint, reducer and activator in the mix, however with these catalyzed paints once you mix them all together you need to spray them, it won't last in the can for future touch up. Mix what you need to shoot, and keep all the extra in their respective cans.

    Dead on with the primer primmer...

    Drying time with catalyzed paints is much quicker than a few days...more like hours until you can handle and start re-assembly.

    Regarding touching up over clear coats....it is no different than any other painted surface when it comes to proper prep for adhesion. The ease IMHO comes in with blending it back...I just find it easier to match out the final overall gloss with the clear coats.

    My 02
     
  18. Sparky_Mark

    Sparky_Mark

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    Toddslater,
    Thanks for catching some errors in my wording...
    You're right about the mixing stuff. I didn't realize that I my wording may be misinterpreted (Sorry!!). You definately have to use what you mix within the recommended "pot life" listed on the data sheet or you will ruin your equipment. You have to keep the paint, activator and reducer (if needed) separate. The activator (I'm talking about isocyanate components) for urethanes have a very short shelf life once they are opened. The activator I used, for example, went bad if not used within 2 weeks after opening. It's the humidity in the air that promotes the curing process and hence is what makes the activator go bad.
    Dry time - 2K paints usually have a "dry to touch" time that is a couple of hours. This does not mean that the coating has reached full cure though. It's true that you won't leave fingerprints in the paint after the dry time, but tools and hard objects will will mar the surface. I had unfortunately had some brackets get mared because they came incontact with each other.
    Clear coats - This topic came up at work when my company was quoting a military truck project. The idea was that we would get a base version of a pickup truck and have to repaint it at our facility (among other upgrades). Tanya (the paint person that works with me), had told our management that they couldn't just scuff up the clearcoat surface before painting it. The clear coat had to be completely removed before painting to ensure adhesion (and thus avoid delamination). I didn't know this and I remember that we had an interesting discussion about this, but don't remember the details. I'll have to repost the technical reason why - it was something about how certain molecules in the coating migrate to the surface to keep the gloss level up. I felt like a true geek back then, but if we benefit from it, I'll take one for the team.
    I'll post more when I talk to Tanya since it was her opinion. There is definately a difference in the OEM paint process versus the refinish process. Maybe the reason is there. I'll ask her specifically about this so we all can get a good answer (you may be right Todd).
    I hope our discussion doesn't scare anyone away from painting their truck, but just gives an idea of what you have to think about before doing it. Like I stated in my first post - I waited a long time and gathered a lot of info before I started.

    Great thread so far!
     
  19. toddslater

    toddslater SILVER Star

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    Sparky Mark,
    I'll double check my memory re: the clear coat prep issue as well (ie. call my buddy with bodyshop). About a year ago after my wife in her LandRover D2 mixed it up with little buffy in her Jetta, I had to do a little repair on the plastic front bumper (cracked upon impact). Straightened the steel core support with the porta power to fix the lines and relieve stress. When it came to the respray over the factory base coat clear coat set up, I did what I usually do. After the crack repair, primed the area, sanded and where I planned on blending and in this case respraying the clear over an entire section, I just scratch padded it real well. I sprayed two coats of color on the fix area and two more coats of color over the fix with successively larger blends, topped it off with two coats of clear in the entire section and done. No adhesion problems to date.
     
  20. Medusa

    Medusa

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    I am right in the middle of the paint work on my FJ45 truggy project. The frame (gloss black) and cage + tube work (Indian Summer Silver) are done and the cab and box (Dodge Viper Red) will hopefully be shot this weekend. Since this is an off-road rig, I am using a single stage, mid-range PPG acrylic enamel ($100/gal), but am using the high quality DP90 self-etching primer ($185/gal). I use an HVLP turbine compressor that delivers 60 cfm at 5psi. My only advice -- don't underestimate the time and $$ it takes to do a decent job.
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