Internal wiring of BJ40/BJ42/HJ42 glow relay (Manual glow) (2 Viewers)

[Henry James the 47th]

I can fill in some info I can add:

24v. versions of BJ40, BJ42, BJ43, BJ45, BJ46 (no idea what a BJ46 is) all existed. 24v. are for EUR or GEN markets primarily.

HJ47 seems to have been only 12v. whereas there were both 12 and 24v. HJ45's. 12v trucks were primarily for ARL, but also for GEN as well.



Perhaps there were some 24v. HJ45's for the Japanese market, like as firetrucks? I believe there were few long wheelbase 45's produced for the Japanese market.

If anyone out there has come across a 24v HJ45 I'd love to hear about it!

 

[lostmarbles]

I can fill in some info I can add:

24v. versions of BJ40, BJ42, BJ43, BJ45, BJ46 (no idea what a BJ46 is) all existed. 24v. are for EUR or GEN markets primarily.

HJ47 seems to have been only 12v. whereas there were both 12 and 24v. HJ45's. 12v trucks were primarily for ARL, but also for GEN as well.



Perhaps there were some 24v. HJ45's for the Japanese market, like as firetrucks? I believe there were few long wheelbase 45's produced for the Japanese market.

If anyone out there has come across a 24v HJ45 I'd love to hear about it!

Thanks Chris.

And looking through your build thread, I note that you had an unanswered question there concerning which other vehicles use your glow controller. Here's the answer (although a little late):

 

[KOOTENAY KRUZER]

My (Canadian spec) BJ42 is 24V with a glow plug timer instead of a glow controller.

The glow relay on my BJ40 is the same p/n as the 24V relay that HJ47th shows. Interesting that Toyota would put an arrow on the cover saying "UPWARDS" then mount it in the vehicle so it points horizontally to the right.

 

[lostmarbles]

My (Canadian spec) BJ42 is 24V with a glow plug timer instead of a glow controller.

12V BJ42s over here got "superglow" in 1983 and 1984 so I imagine you must have the 24V version there Wayne.

..The glow relay on my BJ40 is the same p/n as the 24V relay that HJ47th shows. Interesting that Toyota would put an arrow on the cover saying "UPWARDS" then mount it in the vehicle so it points horizontally to the right.

Ha ha.

 

[Henry James the 47th]

Hmm, I would think that Kootenay's truck has Superglow as well, given the 1983 build date, however, I would be surprised if it had the same relay as the BJ40 used for Superglow...so, what gives?

Kootenay, does your truck have Superglow? What about the sub-glow relay then? What part number is that? Let's see a picture of the set up at the engine, showing the current sensor and dropping resistor - I've not seen that in a 40 series before.

There were 12v Canadian 1981~'82 BJ60's with a timer, 10.5v plugs and no controller, non-Superglow, and I would imagine HJ60's were the same set-up until October 1982. Bu '83 and '84 would have been Superglow in most markets I would think, though Toyota produced trucks without Superglow right through the 1980's for GEN market (simpler fixed delay type system).

 

[lostmarbles]

Hmm, I would think that Kootenay's truck has Superglow as well, given the 1983 build date, however, I would be surprised if it had the same relay as the BJ40 used for Superglow...so, what gives?

Kootenay, does your truck have Superglow? What about the sub-glow relay then? What part number is that? Let's see a picture of the set up at the engine, showing the current sensor and dropping resistor - I've not seen that in a 40 series before.

There were 12v Canadian 1981~'82 BJ60's with a timer, 10.5v plugs and no controller, non-Superglow, and I would imagine HJ60's were the same set-up until October 1982. Bu '83 and '84 would have been Superglow in most markets I would think, though Toyota produced trucks without Superglow right through the 1980's for GEN market (simpler fixed delay type system).

Check Wayne's signature line Chris. He has TWO 24V BJ cruisers. A 1979 BJ40 and a 1983 BJ42.

 

[Henry James the 47th]

oops, missed that detail. I was reading 'BJ42' when it clearly said BJ40.

Still curious about the BJ42 system though...

 

[KOOTENAY KRUZER]

I looked on the passenger side firewall of my BJ42 today where the glow plug relay is on my '40 and found a grey rectangular box with a label on it that says pre-heat. 2 sets of numbers: 28521-57010 and 3400-0102. The first digit of each number I'm not totally sure of as the ink is worn off the label. It also says B24V on the label. I figure this must be a super-glow system like HJ47th says.

 

[lostmarbles]

I just had a few spare minutes at work to go through all this data we've been accumulating here in this thread. I think there is a lot to gain from collating it in different ways.

For instance:
From the stuff in post 23:
Glowplug relays suitable for a 12 volt manual-glow B, 2B, 3B, H or 2H engine
28610-46030 (subs 46031)

Also 28610-68010 (which research here suggests is completely interchangeable with the above. Edit Oct 09 - probably different style connector!)


Then
Glowplug relays suitable for a 24V manual-glow B, 2B, 3B, H, 2H
28610-46040(subs 46041)

And then from the stuff in post 38 we get:
Glow controllers suitable for a 12V manual-glow B, 2B or 3B using four 8.5V plugs
28550-46021 (if you want an open-type like mine)........Edit. - I guess there must be a 46020 lurking around too.
Or 28550-57010 (if you want the more enclosed type like Amaurer's)

Edit - Yes there is a 28550-46020 and I've found one listed for a 1972 to 1974 TOYOACE!

Glow controllers suitable for a 24V manual-glow B, 2B or 3B using four 20.5V plugs
28550-46030 (subs 46031) (if you want the open-type)
Or 28550-57020 (if you want the more enclosed type)

Glow controllers suitable for a 12V manual-glow H or 2H using six 8.5V plugs
28550-47040

So if any of us want replacement "glowplug relays" or "glow controllers" we now have this information and could even add lists of donor-vehicle possibilities.




PS. As you can see in post #23, the EPC lists the 28610-68010 relay as a SUB relay and I'm wondering if that means "subsidiary" in reference to "superglow" trucks --- even though we know Chris's truck is "manual glow" (and NOT superglow)

 

[Henry James the 47th]

That can't be right - about my relay being a sub relay. The reason I say that is in all Superglow systems I have come across, both the main and sub relays are 4-wire units (two thin wires for the switching, and the two heavy wires that route the power). If you can locate a wiring diagram for a Superglow system that shows the sub relay having 5 or 6 wires, please post it up, 'cause I'd like to see it. Until then, I'm inclined to believe that there is an errror in the EPC.

My truck was never equipped with Superglow - I can tell from the intake manifold (no holes for the resistor and current sensor) and the wiring, which I had completely apart, and did not show any evedence of the hacking together that would have been required to change from Superglow over, or the other way around.

 

[lostmarbles]

That can't be right - about my relay being a sub relay. The reason I say that is in all Superglow systems I have come across, both the main and sub relays are 4-wire units (two thin wires for the switching, and the two heavy wires that route the power). If you can locate a wiring diagram for a Superglow system that shows the sub relay having 5 or 6 wires, please post it up, 'cause I'd like to see it. Until then, I'm inclined to believe that there is an errror in the EPC.

My truck was never equipped with Superglow - I can tell from the intake manifold (no holes for the resistor and current sensor) and the wiring, which I had completely apart, and did not show any evedence of the hacking together that would have been required to change from Superglow over, or the other way around.

Thanks Chris. And that is very helpful. I really need to digest all this (and step back for a while to do it).

You're probably right about the error in the EPC (or it could even be an error in the way I'm reading the EPC).

Last night I started off full of confidence when writing that post but I soon began to question my whole "knowledge-base" relating to your HJ47 model - triggered by those "SUB" letters written against your glow relay on the EPC. (I note that they confused Drew earlier but I failed to pick-up-on-it then.)

I learned most of what I know about HJ47s from your build thread where you really got right into the bowels of all aspects of your vehicle (including its wiring). And I will always remain extremely grateful for that. (It helped me understand my vehicle a lot more too.)

But last night, as I started to recall how deeply you went into it (I remember seeing all your wiring so much in shreds that it seemed to me impossible to get it all back into loom-form), I began to doubt whether your glow relay was really the original one for your vehicle and even whether your glow/start wiring (being essentially the same as mine except for having a different controller, 2 extra 8.5V plugs, and a 28610-68010 relay that seems to be completely interchangeable with my 28610-46030 relay) was "original. My thought processes suggested to me that since you had your wiring apart to such a massive degree and then used wiring diagrams to reassemble it - then perhaps those diagrams were meant more for a BJ40 or BJ42 - and so your wiring was no longer representative of "a 1982 ex-factory Aussi 12V HJ47" - No offence intended of course - and I am quite likely completely wrong in this new twist in my thinking. (80% likelihood of being wrong if I was to make an estimate!)

But in contrast, I KNOW my vehicle is much the same as it left the factory and I don't think Drew's BJ42 (from which I have also gained massive amounts of knowledge) has undergone any complete teardown like yours has.

Lack of input from other owners - apart from Wayne who has assisted us greatly - means that most of where we are at has come from "too few people". So we are in real danger of having "contaminated information/knowledge" and I'm just trying to see if that "contamination" has occurred or not.

So, to carry on, last night I even developed the scary idea that perhaps your HJ47 is not representative of other "12V manual-glow HJ47 cruisers" and that this could have resulted in errors in our advice to GregFrench.

So... Are you certain your start/glow system is stock/ex-factory (for a 1982 12 volt Australian HJ47) apart from the use of that different ignition switch Chris? (Perhaps an unfair question? - Because perhaps only other owners of 1981/82 Australian HJ47s can answer this?)

Ha ha. . It often pays to have an "open-mind" like this. But when you start to question assumptions you've held for quite some time it sure puts your mind in turmoil.

I know next-to-nothing about superglow trucks so I generally stay out of threads that involve their glow/start problems. However now this lack of knowledge is proving to be a problem.

So I now also (along with you) want to learn more about "superglow" as a result of seeing all those glow relays in the EPC labelled as "Main" and "SUB" -presumably short for "subsidiary" (rather than being short for "substitute" which the EPC writes as "SUBS").

And at the moment, being at work until the early hours of the next morning and then getting up early is taking its toll on my ability to think clearly. (And I have other projects "on the run" like everybody else here.)

So is there anyone out there able to post up wiring pics showing how the superglow system works in a 1983/84 BJ42 or similar vehicle? What the heck - Please post up pics of ANY BJ/HJ superglow wiring? Why not add to my confusion and send me over the brink and into the depths of complete lunacy!

 

[Henry James the 47th]

Well Tom, I would suggest you are reaching just a little bit further into pure speculation. And that's fine, however i will try to clarify some of the questions you raised.

First of all, the glow relay. It is original to the truck as I got it, and the part number is 28610-68010. According to the EPC, that relay is for 2H, HJ47, from October 1981 to October 1982, with no regional designation given. Since my truck's chassis number puts the build date at February 1982, that relay would have been correct for the build date. I note for ARL, the other glow relay listed for the time period was 28610-46031. I have no idea what differences there may be between these two relays.

I also note from the EPC that this relay was used for GEN destinations from October 1982 through June 1985. Now, GEN destination trucks would typically have had fixed-delay type glow systems (i.e., no Superglow).

For ARL-spec trucks from October 1982 through October 1984, the superglow system makes it's appearance, and now there are tow relays listed, the MAIN being 28610-54080, and the SUB being 28610-54090.

I note that for my relay listing, 28610-68010, that it is described as 12v, SUB. In this case, 'SUB' must have some other meaning, since there are no 12v MAIN relays listed for before October 1982. Further, after October 1982, when the Superglow system appears, the listing for the secondary relay is 12v SUB. Note the absence of the comma - whether this means ANYTHING I have no idea. The EPC is confusing in this regard, but I'm sure there is some explanation for the 'SUB' designation for my relay.

I am confident that the glow relay in my truck is correct for the year and month of manufacture, though whether it is the original relay or not I have no idea. It did arrive with the truck from Australia, that much I can tell you.

Here's a picture, and you should be able to just make out the part number on the case:

 

[Henry James the 47th]

And here are some wiring diagrams for you to chew on.

The first is for either HJ60 or 75, fixed delay, non-Superglow (ahh, simplicity!)

The second is for 1985 HJ60, Superglow

The third is for 1985 HJ75 with Superglow.

As you can see, Superglow systems have two relays, each with 4 wires.

 

[lostmarbles]

I've edited post #49 to remove some stuff that I now regard as having had "dubious accuracy".

This page from the EPC has added to my confusion. I was trying to see which plugs a 12V manual-glow H engine was supposed to run. .... And low and behold I come with those horrid words "Main" and "SUB" again.

What does anyone make of this?



And I see there is a 24V HJ45 mentioned there too that you were interested in Chris.

 

[Henry James the 47th]

I wonder if any 24v HJ45's went to Europe?

Hope you didn't miss my previous post with the wiring diagrams you were after Tom, as we seem to be posting at the same time.

 

[lostmarbles]

....It is original to the truck as I got it, and the part number is 28610-68010. ....

No need to say anymore Chris. That's enough for me.

As you can see, I have some distrust for the EPC information where I can't find sound-backing for its validity.

...I note that for my relay listing, 28610-68010, that it is described as 12v, SUB. In this case, 'SUB' must have some other meaning, since there are no 12v MAIN relays listed for before October 1982. Further, after October 1982, when the Superglow system appears, the listing for the secondary relay is 12v SUB. Note the absence of the comma - whether this means ANYTHING I have no idea. The EPC is confusing in this regard, but I'm sure there is some explanation for the 'SUB' designation for my relay. ...

And my finding (just now) "MAIN" and "SUB" used for glowplug part numbers (if 90189-04024 is indeed a glowplug) supports this view.

....I am confident that the glow relay in my truck is correct for the year and month of manufacture, though whether it is the original relay or not I have no idea. It did arrive with the truck from Australia, that much I can tell you. ..

Cool
I'll edit to reinstate your glow relay part number in post # 49

(At least people can't accuse me of not being careful )

And here are some wiring diagrams for you to chew on.

The first is for 1985 HJ60, Superglow.

The second is for 1985 HJ75, Superglow (sorry it's a little blurry).

The third is for either HJ60 or 75, fixed delay, non-Superglow (ahh, simplicity!)

And I will do that - Thanks (Edit- I find these diagrams very helpful and those superglow relays certainly don't look to be interchangeable with manualglow relays.)

 

[Henry James the 47th]

You know, when I was re-wiring my truck, in consideration of the fact that the relay might be 25 years old (then again it might have been replaced 3 years ago for all I know), I thought it might be wise to get a new one. Trouble is, it's no longer available from Toyota, and i tried in three countries. I suspect that obtaining the other relays that you have listed above for these older systems might be difficult - have you ever tried to get a replacement for yours (I know, yours looks next to new, so why would you?!)

Newer Toyota relays can be gotten, but they all seem to be from Superglow systems, and are thus 4 wire. I like the glow controller, so I really would prefer to keep it instead of going to a light or, god forbid, wiring in a timer. Now that we know the 'S' terminal on these older relays does nothing, one could use a 4-wire relay with a glow controller, however the issue remains is that of the activation of glow while the starter is cranking, which is done in these older systems by the back-white stripe wire coming from the 'ST' line at the ignition switch.

I imagine that something could be soldered together using a wire spliced over from a starter relay, through a diode (not the 'de-spiking type - unless all diodes work that way ) and connecting to the white-green switching wire - what do you think?

Otherwise, I am searching for a 5-wire glow relay. I think it would be good to discover what options there might be, for those who want to keep using a glow controller, if/when the glow relay dies.

Any thoughts?

I notice when looking at the Superglow set-ups between the Hj60 and HJ75 - the 75 system is a little simpler as the ignition relay is absent. Any idea if 70 series use an ignition relay elsewhere?

I have an ignition relay in my truck, as I grafted a 60 series realy pod into the harness.

A last point is concerning starter relays - these seem pretty much unchanged over time through various Tyota LC's as 4 wire relays. The one in my truck is new and i believe is originally for a late 1980's 60 or 75 series. I had to change out a terminal end to install it, no big deal.

 

[lostmarbles]

..... have you ever tried to get a replacement for yours.....

No I haven't.

But I think if I had to source one, I'd try "second-hand" in Australia.

...I like the glow controller, so I really would prefer to keep it instead of going to a light or, god forbid, wiring in a timer...

We both think alike.

But I believe our glow system components are very robust. (After all - Even my glow controller, which is probably the weakest component in the start/glow system apart from the plugs, has survived 30 years and even survived "being left continually energised for at least 20 MINUTES" while I was working on my steering column and accidentally messed with the ignition switch.)

.. I imagine that something could be soldered together using a wire spliced over from a starter relay, through a diode (not the 'de-spiking type - unless all diodes work that way ) and connecting to the white-green switching wire - what do you think?.....

I'm no expert but I think it would take quite a few diodes (in parallel) to handle the necessary current flow.

..... if/when the glow relay dies.

Any thoughts? ...

Yes. -------- You're too much of a pessimist Chris.

I'm not actively looking at holding spares. - But if I stumble across one of our relays and the price is right, I'll probably buy/keep it.

...I notice when looking at the Superglow set-ups between the Hj60 and HJ75 - the 75 system is a little simpler as the ignition relay is absent. Any idea if 70 series use an ignition relay elsewhere?.....

Sorry. I know very little outside of "40 series". (And there are lots of knowledge gaps even within the forty series.)

..A last point is concerning starter relays - these seem pretty much unchanged over time through various Tyota LC's as 4 wire relays. The one in my truck is new and i believe is originally for a late 1980's 60 or 75 series. I had to change out a terminal end to install it, no big deal.

I think this proves that "when a push comes to a shove, we get off our #rses and do things".

In other words, if either of us lost a glow relay, I'm sure we'd soon either find a replacement or find something different we can use instead. (I refuse to worry about it in advance. )



PS. "Sleeping on this" left me with a clearer picture of how I may proceed in the event that I were to lose my glow relay and have trouble replacing it. I'd probably look at "improving over the OEM set-up".

I'd ALWAYS keep my glow controller (and if it failed - fit new resistance wire) because I LOVE the on-dash display of how my plugs are glowing:



Then I'd probably discard the glow relay completely (making safe the end of that wire that used to go to the dummy S terminal). And simply fit a "heavy-duty momentary-switch" (push-button spring-return) between the wire that went to "B" and the wire that went to "G" on the discarded relay. And I'd position this "momentary switch" where I can access it readily with my left hand while my right hand may be on the ignition key.

A "momentary switch" something like this thing (but maybe larger) is what I'd search for:



I'd go for something designed to cope with a "big inductive load" - like the starter button you see on some vintage trucks that energise the starter solenoid directly. ..........But I'm not saying the glow circuit is an inductive load. Because it isn't!

 

[lostmarbles]

Right.... So this is what I think the 12Volt wiring diagram looks like for a 40-series BJ/HJ cruiser that is manual-glow, with EDIC, and employing a glow controller and 8.5V plugs:



And before I can post a similar diagram for a 24V cruiser, I need to work out whether they are wired like this (from the 1977 Chassis & Body FSM):



Or like this from the 1980 B-engine FSM:



I don't own a 24V cruiser, so without confirmation, I won't go any further with the 24V diagram.

 

[lostmarbles]

To get inside my glow relay I have to bend back a couple of metal tabs. And I've decided against doing that because both "Amaurer" and "Henry James the 47th" have already looked inside their 12V relays and found out what I wanted to know (concerning 12V relays).

But despite that, I just uncoupled the connector to my "50 terminal" (on my starter) and confirmed that my glow-controller and glowplugs do get energised with my key in "start" (just the same as they do in "glow").

Here's that connector:


This was a very simple test to do. And if someone can do that same test with their 24V cruiser and tell me their results, then I can perhaps proceed with drawing up a "likely 24V wiring diagram" similar to the 12 volt one in my last post.

Incidentally, without disconnecting my starter control circuit, I found it is hard to tell (from my controller) whether or not my plugs were still getting juice via my glow controller. That's because the controller began to dim as soon as I turned the key away from the glow position, and my engine starts so easily that the key doesn't stay in "start" long enough to see the controller glow brightly again.