If you could choose…. (1 Viewer)

[archie73]

So if you came across an 86 4R with no engine/transmission/transfer, but in kinda good shape for cheap. What would you do ?
But first some parameters-

• I Have DD
• I Have anFJ40-LS,SM465,Orion, ARB etc
• I’m not a pro with a wrench or welder, but I did build the cruiser to what it is today.
• Limited budget
• I’d like something I can take to southern Utah and not worry about body damage.

The 40 does just fine in my desired environment, but as I progress in skill and confidence I wonder how far I want to push it. I wheel with rigs with longer wheelbases and wider track widths. I see the advantages. I don’t really want to take the cruiser to those dimensions. Plus the wife loves driving it as is.
So the way I see it it needs a drivetrain/sas. There’s a set of fj60 axles I could pick up for a reasonable price. I could pull the arb’s out of the 40. They have a nice track width. BUT then I have an offset rear pumpkin and need a matching xcase. There’s. A set of superduty tons, but I think they might be wider than I want.
While I don’t need another v8, the ls was a pretty cheap engine all said and done. And I’ve already done one. But I’m open to any economically priced drivetrain with enough torque to turn 37-40” tires.

So what would you do to this heartless runner?

 

[Beams37]

Just do a simple Chevy 350. It's simple, powerful, and sounds great going down the road!

 

[bkg]

But I’m open to any economically priced drivetrain with enough torque to turn 37-40” tires.

That’s a bit of a contradiction.

 

[Mudder]

Pass on it and wait until something that fits the bill better pops up unless you really want a 4Runner. How’s the wiring? How’s the frame? What kind of budget are you thinking for this build? That all plays a factor too.

 

[archie73]

That’s a bit of a contradiction.

Actually it’s a matter of perception. I realize that no drivetrain is cheap, but some are more $/hp than others. I also realize that you don’t need 500 horse to turn tires. But I see your point, so let’s set a base line. I did my LS swap for under $1000 during Covid. I realize that is not necessarily what things cost now, but I do believe I can get a complete eng/tran/xcase for $2500. (I know there are more pieces to buy, but let’s start there).

For the sake of argument, let’s not talk about your cousin’s uncle’s college roommate who’s selling a complete 3UR drivetrain for a case of PBR. Let’s just stick to perceived average values on drivetrains. Along those lines, I think it’s cheaper to swap whole drivetrain then mess with adapters.

 

[archie73]

Pass on it and wait until something that fits the bill better pops up unless you really want a 4Runner. How’s the wiring? How’s the frame? What kind of budget are you thinking for this build? That all plays a factor too.

Where’s the adventure in that? Plus I enjoy the building process. I learn new things and get to use a welder!!! You do bring up good points about the frame and wiring, but this a nearly 40 year old vehicle. I don’t expect it to be pristine.

Do I really want a 4Runner? Yes and no. I’ve owned two-85&87. I have a warm fuzzy memory of them. I know they aren’t spacious vehicle like today’s models. They aren’t incredibly comfortable or powerful. They are small/simple vehicles. Remember I have a 40- I like sparse.

 

[archie73]

Just do a simple Chevy 350. It's simple, powerful, and sounds great going down the road!

I have it in the “possible” column. The 40 had a 350 before I went LS. The quadrajet was perfect offroad. Now that I’ve gone to the darkside, I like efi. The backwoods simplicity of a SBC is a strong argument…

 

[Mudder]

Where’s the adventure in that? Plus I enjoy the building process. I learn new things and get to use a welder!!! You do bring up good points about the frame and wiring, but this a nearly 40 year old vehicle. I don’t expect it to be pristine.

Do I really want a 4Runner? Yes and no. I’ve owned two-85&87. I have a warm fuzzy memory of them. I know they aren’t spacious vehicle like today’s models. They aren’t incredibly comfortable or powerful. They are small/simple vehicles. Remember I have a 40- I like sparse.

I’m not knocking doing a build if that’s what you want to do. I’ve spent too much money building an 84 pickup for the sake of the memories and fun. I only mentioned the wiring as it can be a pain to find new harness if the old one is chewed up and could cause issues with an engine swap. However an old school 350 would be easier to wire in and make work for a rig that can be used to bash around on rocks.

The biggest issue is the suspension and costs. Do you a budget in mind? Just to give better information on what would be reasonable to make this work. A 350 with a aftermarket tbi would also work well to avoid the drawbacks of carbs compared to efi.

 

[archie73]

The biggest issue is the suspension and costs. Do you a budget in mind? Just to give better information on what would be reasonable to make this work. A 350 with a aftermarket tbi would also work well to avoid the drawbacks of carbs compared to efi.

You’re asking the right questions and I have some answers, but not all.
Budget- initially I’d say 10k, this is the number I always give the wife. I know it a lie, she knows it’s a lie, but but it gives me enough rope to hang myself. So coilovers are out. I’m tempted to try coils and links. I want to be a cool kid, but I’m cheap. Ultimately I’d be using what’s there ifs/spring lift to get the drivetrain swap going. Unless the ifs is in the way and then I would start the sas earlier.
TBI is also a possibility, but then it’s a slippery slope back to the LS. I love my 5.3 and I’m sure it’d move a 4Rr nicely. Are people keeping them cool? I’m a long way out from the mini truck world, but back in the day it was rumored Sbc’s were hard to keep from overheating. If this is no longer true, it certainly moves the needle.
I’m still interested in alternative ideas too. Toyota engines are sweet, but people run them into the ground. When I see them available, they have 250k on the clock. On the other hand, Chevy drivetrains are readily available and have every aftermarket doodad you can imagine.
Next on the list would be axle choices. I want a wider foot print. Kool kids get tons, but I would prefer the fj60/80 width. It’s a silly cosmetic thing, but I like some tire under the truck. ‘60 rear acles are off center, which circles back to transfercase choices. ‘80 axles are kinda centered and seem to handle big tires pretty well. ‘60 front axles are passenger drop, but with ifs hubs,I think, they are close enough to rear 80 width. The right 80 is full float, so that’d be nice. I’m not holding my breath for a cheap locked version.

 

[Beams37]

I have it in the “possible” column. The 40 had a 350 before I went LS. The quadrajet was perfect offroad. Now that I’ve gone to the darkside, I like efi. The backwoods simplicity of a SBC is a strong argument…

I had an LS swapped 60, so I know what you mean, but I love the way a SBC sounds with a nice set of headers and flowmaster exhaust. Just sounds like my childhood.

If you want to stay EFI, you could go 2JZ !!

 

[bkg]

Actually it’s a matter of perception. I realize that no drivetrain is cheap, but some are more $/hp than others. I also realize that you don’t need 500 horse to turn tires. But I see your point, so let’s set a base line. I did my LS swap for under $1000 during Covid. I realize that is not necessarily what things cost now, but I do believe I can get a complete eng/tran/xcase for $2500. (I know there are more pieces to buy, but let’s start there).

For the sake of argument, let’s not talk about your cousin’s uncle’s college roommate who’s selling a complete 3UR drivetrain for a case of PBR. Let’s just stick to perceived average values on drivetrains. Along those lines, I think it’s cheaper to swap whole drivetrain then mess with adapters.

I guess we need to define what you mean by "budget" and ability to support 40" tires...

Having done a 3.8 Buick, 4.3 TBI and other swaps... I'm not a fan of the fitment challenges that a v8 brings... or the potential downstream costs.

So I'd lean towards finding a stock drivetrain or a 3.4-based drivetrain.

EDIT: saw your budget number.... That's a decent budget.

 

[archie73]

I had an LS swapped 60, so I know what you mean, but I love the way a SBC sounds with a nice set of headers and flowmaster exhaust. Just sounds like my childhood.

If you want to stay EFI, you could go 2JZ !!

While I’m aware of the 2JZ, I don’t know much. Aren’t they pretty pricey?
Do straight sixes fit in a 1st gen?

 

[Beams37]

While I’m aware of the 2JZ, I don’t know much. Aren’t they pretty pricey?
Do straight sixes fit in a 1st gen?

I don't think a 2F will fit, at least that's what I remember hearing in the past.

2JZ's can be expensive, if you're looking for 1,000+ HP, but I think a stock 2JZ is much more reasonable. All that being said, I've done ZERO 2JZ swaps, so who knows. LOL

 

[bkg]

While I’m aware of the 2JZ, I don’t know much. Aren’t they pretty pricey?
Do straight sixes fit in a 1st gen?

5mge, 7mge and 2jz's have been done. But they all have huge fitment issues with the core support. Not at all worth it, IMHO.

 

[Beams37]

I've always wanted to put a 4.3L Vortec V6 in one of these trucks. People will say that if you're going through all the work, go ahead and drop in the LS3, but I don't care about what people say.

 

[AgentOrange]

I've always wanted to put a 4.3L Vortec V6 in one of these trucks. People will say that if you're going through all the work, go ahead and drop in the LS3, but I don't care about what people say.

This is about what is on my plate for my next project. 4.3 Vortec with an auto. Yes, I know the 4l60 isn't ideal, but parts for it are cheap and it won't be worked all that hard. Then an adapter to a 23 spline Toyota transfer case with 4.7 gears in it. Then 3 link the front with coilovers and Chevy springs in the rear. Wish I had my 87 4Runner still to do this with

 

[Beams37]

This is about what is on my plate for my next project. 4.3 Vortec with an auto. Yes, I know the 4l60 isn't ideal, but parts for it are cheap and it won't be worked all that hard. Then an adapter to a 23 spline Toyota transfer case with 4.7 gears in it. Then 3 link the front with coilovers and Chevy springs in the rear. Wish I had my 87 4Runner still to do this with

I would really prefer a manual, but I think it's a great engine and won't engulf the entire engine bay. It seems like the NV4500 would likely be the easy option for a manual. Right?

 

[AgentOrange]

I would really prefer a manual, but I think it's a great engine and won't engulf the entire engine bay. It seems like the NV4500 would likely be the easy option for a manual. Right?

Were a manual in the cards, I'd go with the NV4500 as well. It's pretty stout and again, parts are cheap and very available

 

[bkg]

I would really prefer a manual, but I think it's a great engine and won't engulf the entire engine bay. It seems like the NV4500 would likely be the easy option for a manual. Right?

Advanced adapters used to make a bellhousing for 4.3 to r150. Iirc, it supported both 15x and 16x flywheels.

It was also dual pattern - supported the 3.8 Buick as well.

Did a 4.3 tbi/r150/dual ultimate in an 86 xcab in 1999. 4.3 is a perfect size engine for the Toyota engine compartment.

 

[Beams37]

Advanced adapters used to make a bellhousing for 4.3 to r150. Iirc, it supported both 15x and 16x flywheels.

It was also dual pattern - supported the 3.8 Buick as well.

Did a 4.3 tbi/r150/dual ultimate in an 86 xcab in 1999. 4.3 is a perfect size engine for the Toyota engine compartment.

Nice. Maybe that's the right setup for one these !!