3B ran great. now won't start (1 Viewer)

[dodgydex]

Hello, I purchased an 84 BJ60 3B diesel in vancouver recently, ran nicely on my drive back to Fort McMurray however I cannot get her started.

Installed a new set of glow plugs, oil pan heater, changed the fuel filter and bled the filter, rail, and each injector. installed 2 1200 cold crank batteries. She cranks fast and has fuel to the injectors. Still won't start. Checked for power to the glow plugs and seems to be right, initial higher voltage with a drop to after glow. Never had troubles starting her in the warm, problems have only started when it hit -30. Its warmed to -10 now. With the block heater and oil heater im confident its warm enough.

Any hints, tricks, suggestions or questions? would be greatly appreciated as I'm not understanding why it won't start. could the new glow plugs not be sealing completely and causing low compression? they are not in very tight as the torque specs are pretty low, but installed in spec.

I tried a little starting fluid but didnt like the sound it made when it ingested it.

thanks for your time, -Dex

 

[roalco]

The glow plugs seal on a tapered face, and even if they aren't seating there the compression loss through all that fine thread is negligible.
I have started mine at -27C, but you need to cycle the glow plugs a few times, and the block heater is a huge help.
Did you put the right glow plugs in?? the 84 BJ60 had a superglow system which ran 6 volt plugs, heated high on 8.5-10V for 2-4 seconds, then the lamp goes out and it goes to a 4v afterglow (put a voltmeter across the glow plug buss and ground). If the superglow system is intact and you put 12 plugs in it won't do anything as the voltages are too low.
If you have an intact superglow system (key on, you hear a heavy relay close and the glow light comes on, then 3-4 seconds later it goes off (relay and light, then about 30 seconds later you hear a second relay drop and there is no voltage on the glow buss), and you have 6 volt plugs in, then I would (with the block heater on for an hour or so) cycle the glow plugs through (key on, light comes on, then goes out, key off for a few seconds and repeat 4-6 times. It should start.
Good luck!! There is a lot of info on this if you search "wilson switch" the local name for a manual glow control bypass switch.

 

[Radd Cruisers]

You say you have fuel at the injectors, but - is the EDIC system working properly?

Pull the rod off the EDIC motor that goes to the injection pump and then see if it starts.

The EDIC motor is located to the rear of the engine on the left side. The rod has two ball joint sockets on it, and you can just pull it off. The lever that controls fuel to the injection pump then defaults to the run position.

Have you removed and glow tested the glow plugs?

The proper glow plugs for the Bj60 are 6 volts if you have the Super Glow system still in place. Double/triple glowing a super glow system can burn plugs out (though the glow timer is designed to prevent this from happening - the multiple glowing part).

If you're using a push button you can use either 8.5V or 10.5V plugs (the 10.5s will last longer, but take longer to glow - as much as 20 - 25 seconds in moderately cold weather).

If you're using Ether, it takes about a 1/10th second shot of mist to the intake air stream and that's it. Wait a second or two and then crank it. Any more than that and you're risking damage.

My thought is that you are not getting good glow plug operation. There are not many places to buy the proper 6V glow plugs in Canada, most places will try to sell you the wrong voltage units. We keep stock of these in case you need some (along with most others voltages for Toyotas and many JDM diesels).

To test the glow plugs, the best way is to remove them and physically glow test each one. The plug should glow red hot close to the tip in about 5 or 6 seconds (6V BJ60 plugs).


HTH

~John

 

[toomanymachines]

I agree with the above post pull each glowplug and check it I just use a battery charger.. the carbon will smoke off in a second. I neve let them get to red.. If they do not smoke in a second , I am sure that is your problem. I once put the wrong voltage glow plus in and it was nasty to start. I usually just order form my local toyota dealer. I have never had good luck ordering from a local jobber..

 

[dodgydex]

I re tried the ether and got her to run, I was definitely spraying too much. The glow plugs still may be suspect. The EDIC was the first thing I had troubles with when I i first picked the truck up. It hadn't been run in a few years and after driving it for a half hour the edic started to cycle and give me a momentary loss of power, i could hear the relay in the passenger foot well and ended up seeing the EDIC arm cycling that and pulled it off. Drove 7 hours and by the 8th hour the relay wasnt clicking anymore so i hooked it back up. Got the glow plugs from napa so not sure if they are completely correct.

 

[cruiser_guy]

The glow plugs should have the voltage stamped on them. I get mine from the local diesel place. Just bring in the old (correct) ones or get the number from the parts reference sticky at the top of the page https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...umber-thread-no-chit-chat-parts-requests.html . You're local diesel guy should be able to get the Nippondenso plugs.

 

[UpsideDown]

Got the glow plugs from napa so not sure if they are completely correct.

Napa does not stock, nor can they easily get, the correct glow plugs.

I would be willing to bet they are 10.5V NGK units.

~John

 

[dodgydex]

The glow plugs are definitely the 10.5V NGK units. Can't get her started this morning. Looking for some proper glow plugs around town, not having much luck at the moment, ill drive down to toyota and see if and what they are asking for a set.

Is it possible to provide the proper amount of voltage to these NGK plugs via a modified wilson switch?

 

[dodgydex]

Sorry I re-read the other posts, via a wilson switch and up to 25 seconds of heating these plugs i have should work. a set of 6V plugs from toyota here in fort mac will run you $320 for a set. So it looks like I need to cut a few wires and put a switch in.

How can I know if Im glowing the plugs too long? I suppose just common sense, as little glow time as possible, but is there a base time that I can work from, or a max to keep away from?

 

[eleblanc]

Napa does not stock, nor can they easily get, the correct glow plugs.

I would be willing to bet they are 10.5V NGK units.

~John

No they are not, they will tell you that they are listed, but i burns all of them after 2 start and brought them back. NGK has a incorrect listing.

 

[slammed41]

dex,

i'm running a manual override (primary circuit only) in addition to an intact superglow system with 8.5 volt plugs. this means i can let the factory set up do it's thing if i want or i can add more heat if i feel it's necessary (wilson switch) without having to key on/key off.

regarding how long you would want to give the plugs juice (regardless of whether you use the superglow system and cycle the primary a few times OR run a wilson switch to manually run the primary circuit), i wouldn't run more than 3 seconds per hit (as roalco mentioned in his reply).

btw, i got my plugs from tony carr (alltoy in kamloops (250) 851-4480). not sure if he gets them from the local dealer or from 4wheelauto in edmonton. plugs should NOT be costing hundreds of dollars!

(4Wheel Auto Wholesale)

this link should take you to their glow plug page...

good luck,

 

[dodgydex]

well as far as the NAPA NGK's, NAPA is trying to find if NGK can get a 6V plug, putting out a nation wide bulletin that the listing is wrong and have been very kind and helpful so far. I think they will even refund or replace the plugs I have already installed.

I have tried to run a manual primary circuit override from the black/red and black/yellow wires from the drivers footwell (28521-57020) to a momentart But it doesnt seem to be working. I need to get a 9V for my volt meter. I was hoping to have a manual button that doesnt impede the performance of the stock system as i'd like to get the proper plugs in at some point

 

[Radd Cruisers]

The proper plugs are $28 each, in stock.

If you run 10.5V plugs on a 12V cruiser you will start to glow at about 10 seconds and will be fully lit at about 15 seconds (at 10C). You can keep glowing them for a LONG time at 12V system voltage. I tested a single 10.5V plug with a 40 Amp charger to 40 seconds with no problems.

To install a "Wilson switch" put a momentary on push button that activates the primary glow relay. The Primarly relay is the one that is round and not square. It is mounted to the inside (top) part of the inner fender, and not the vertical part of the fender.

~John

 

[Radd Cruisers]

A wilson switch can be run in tandem, but you need the proper plugs to have any real effect.

~John

 

[cruiser_guy]

Personally, if the SuperGlow system is working I wouldn't mess with it. Surely Fort Mac has a diesel shop somewhere. Go in there with the Nippondenso number and see what they cost. I'll bet it won't be more than $25 - 40 pop and they'll be the same as Toyota for 1/2 what Toyota will charge.

Just my 2 cents and I've been driving my BJ60 since '89.

Registered diesel shops in Alberta http://www.diesel.org/Content.asp?ID=1393

 

[Radd Cruisers]

dex,

i'm running a manual override (primary circuit only) in addition to an intact superglow system with 8.5 volt plugs.

i wouldn't run more than 3 seconds per hit (as roalco mentioned in his reply).

btw, i got my plugs from tony carr (alltoy in kamloops (250) 851-4480). not sure if he gets them from the local dealer or from 4wheelauto in edmonton. plugs should NOT be costing hundreds of dollars!

(4Wheel Auto Wholesale)

this link should take you to their glow plug page...

good luck,

6V is the correct plug. 8.5V will not work with the super glow to any extent.

Dealer glow plugs are about $75 to $80 each.

NGK does not have a listing for the correct 6V plugs.... this is old news for Cruiser heads.

3 Seconds won't even light a 6V plug. [see my correction on this below ]

~John


www.raddcruisers.ca

 

[roalco]

Sorry John, but 3 seconds (full, one-thousand one, onethosand two, onethousand three count)does glow a 6v plug. The plug I am running is the HKT PT 146, a QGS type plug and the direct replacement for toyotas OEM 1985-68050. Check out the catalog, there's tons of info there; http://www.karmot.com/pdf/GlowPlugCatalogue.pdf
My system has the superglow overridden but the afterglow comes on as normal. So, from cold, I turn the key to the glow position, just wait for a few seconds to let the old glow light go out (and yes, it is ramping up to the afterglow voltage of 3-4volts) then a full three second count on the superglow bypass switch and crank, it'll fire almost immediately, within 3 revolutions anyways. This is good enough down to near freezing, then I go to 2 cycles of superglow for 3 seconds, three cycles when it's really cold. I find the QGS style plugs to heat much faster than other styles, and be an excellent match for a modified superglow system.

 

[Radd Cruisers]

Sorry John, but 3 seconds (full, one-thousand one, onethosand two, onethousand three count)does glow a 6v plug.

The discussion about glow time was really intended for the 105.V glow plugs that he had installed.

The 10.5V units will work well with the Wilson Switch, and will last far longer than the 6V glow plugs when used in a manual glow system as one can glow them for much longer and with reduced risk of burnout.

The plug I am running is the HKT PT 146, a QGS type plug and the direct replacement for toyotas OEM 1985-68050. Check out the catalog, there's tons of info there; http://www.karmot.com/pdf/GlowPlugCatalogue.pdf

Ah, you see, there is NO listing for NGK in the catalog... for this application at 6V.

And...

As I mentioned before, I have stacks the correct 6V glow plugs here for this very purpose. They are the PT-146 HKT units... These particular ones are fully lit in about 3 - 6 seconds, depending on ambient temp, which is compatible with the BJ60 12V super glow system (just tested them to prove it and they lit a lot faster than other 6V units I have here).


~John

 

[Radd Cruisers]

One more note about 8.5V glow plugs (HKT PT-104 Toyota 19850-68030): these light in about 8 seconds at 10C and will be fully lit in about 10 seconds.

These ones do not work with the super glow system very well as they are just too slow for the amount of time the primary glow allows for. These would work quite well with a manual glow, but would tread the middle ground between the 6V and 10.5V units in lifespan if left on for too long.

I have lots of these in stock as well. In fact, I have hundreds of glow plugs in stock...

~John