Cam bearing oil holes not lined up (2 Viewers)

[mtnphilosopher]

Hoping to turn the corner on my 2F refresh. All is going well, but I noticed the cam bearings weren't lining-up with the oil holes in the block. Of the three I could see/photo, two are sort of aligned, and one doesn't seem to be at all:

(the dark part is engine paint that missed, not a burn mark)


I'm putting-in new crank main and conn rod bearings, but was really hoping to leave the cam bearings be, as I've (so far) avoided taking anything to the machine shop. Still, the FSM says to make sure to line up the holes when installing new bearings. The motor has been rebuilt (not sure when), and everything else looks good, but either the cam bearings were installed incorrectly, or they're starting to spin?

I'd really appreciate any thoughts.

Brad

 

[Sawz]

Do the Bearings have a groove on the back side to allow oil to travel from port to port?

 

[mtnphilosopher]

I was wondering the same, but can't find any photos that would show the outside (block side) of the bearings. Been searching here as well, but have only seen comments ranging from "cam bearings almost never go bad" to "never try to replace cam bearings yourself" to "make sure the holes line up".

Thinking about calling Clegg Machine in the morning, but thought I'd ask her first in case someone has run into this before.

 

[91 4runner]

It's common for them to not be "perfectly" lined up with the holes, ( the machinist is trying to keep oil psi in the crank mains)

But if u can't see the hole in the block through the oiling port in the bearing at all, then the bearing needs to be removed and installed properly, u will burn up the cams bearing surface if it's left that way,

 

[Kief]

fig. 3-146 in my 1980 manual- "align the bearing oil holes with those of the cylinder block"

I say sloppy assembly, possible from the factory, so are poor quality camshafts with missing material on the cam' lobes.. If it lasted this long then you're probably OK. If there aren't any signs of oil starvation but it might be worth your time and $ to fix it now. vs. later.

 

[mtnphilosopher]

Thanks guys. I'd read elsewhere on the interwebs that sometimes the bearings are seated to allow for maximum oil pressure to the block while still getting enough to lube the rocker assembly.
I've seen no signs of oil starvation, but honestly can't remember paying much attention to amount of oil up in the head area last time I was adjusting valves with the engine running.
I have some Clevite cam bearings on the way, just in case. Rock Auto has them for $20 right now, and I needed some other random (non-mandatory-OEM) stuff anyway.

My bigger concern now is that, on closer inspection of the camshaft, I found a groove worn in the fuel pump lobe. Everything else looks great -- even/especially/thankfully the bearing journals.
When first breaking down the 2F, I found two chunk/shards of an old fuel pump arm in the pan. The pump I have now is fine and passes the FSM diagnostics, but I'm thinking that sometime between the last rebuild (date unknown) and now, a fuel pump took a dump and the PO just swapped in another without thinking about the cam lobe -- I know I wouldn't have.

Here's what it looks like now:

I've talked with two good machinists who both said there's no one local (including themselves) who had the necessary equipment -- a parkerizing machine, to be specific.

My thought now is to put both the cam and fuel pump in and see what it looks like/how it aligns. The pump has been running fine for at least the two years I've had it.
Maybe I should just have some faith in the tractor motor?

 

[Kief]

It will probably be fine but you will not have the flat-to-flat oil tolerance factor, the high spots will wear faster. I think you would be better off using a file/block and emery cloth then a strip of emery to take it back down to flat and then polish with fine wet sanding paper. Just try to mimmick the factory curve- its a fuel pump, not a lifter so it just has to pump.. Used cams are around. If you get an older one you might end up with a better cam pattern you just need to make sure all of the oil journals are the same as the old ones had the some journal 90 degrees out, even F cams will work but the bearings need to be sized the same or resized. The cams are surface hardened I believe but don't think this is a factor in your case anyways..

ginericLC seems to have a lot of parts, if he doesn't have one I might but I'm in Oregon.. Message me up if you are interested.

 

[mtnphilosopher]

Thanks Kief. My inclination is to leave the cam be, at least for the present. I've read that I'd need to replace the lifters and push rods if I swapped out the cam, and that's getting too rich for my already cash-thin blood, but if I can just put swap in a good used cam and leave the rest, that would definitely be a possibility.

I did install the cam and FP to see how things were lining-up:

then marked the eccentric lobe (that'd be a great name for a band) to see where it rubbed-off and the alignment:


Seems pretty well centered and missing the deepest groove?
The FP arm shows some wear, but seems good otherwise:


I'll shoot you a PM, Kief, about the cam. Eric is definitely closer, but if you have one hanging around, that would be cool.

Thanks again,

Brad

 

[mtnphilosopher]

Bit of an update:
Replaced the cam bearings, put in the cam, and boy-howdy is that tight. I can rotate the cam shaft, but it takes some effort, particularly to initially get it moving. I'm hoping this is attributed to the assembly lube, but after looking online into the (bad) idea of using lapping compound, it seems that this is to be expected with new bearings(?). It doesn't bind at any particular place in the rotation, so -- although I haven't had it checked for out-of-round -- I don't think it's warped.

Then I came across an '83 2F locally on craigslist that I picked-up today. It has unknown mileage with a suspected blown head gasket, and is the cast-off from a SBC swap. Comparing them, I realize that the "new" (to me) cam is OEM, and the one I've had is aftermarket, I'm thinking Meiling/Sealed Power.
Here are some (more) pics:

OEM cam from the '83


Aftermarket cam with the mucked-up fuel pump lobe


My question now is if I can use the OEM cam and, if so, if I should use the lifters and pushrods from that motor (haven't inspected either yet, but while the lifters are still in place -- i.e., in order -- the pushrods cam to me in a bag.

If there are any thoughts/concerns/sage advice I should consider, I'd really appreciate hearing them. I can also post-up some pictures of the respective lifters/pushrods, if that would help, but need to clean them up first.

Thanks much, all,

Brad

 

[ozwallaby]

I don't think the cam (by itself, not running an fp or lifters) should be that difficult to turn.... either it or the cam tunnel (possibly therefore the bearings) are out of line/bent..... stick the end cam journals in V blocks, put a dial indicator on the middle journal and check how much run out there is...... as for intentionally setting the cam bearings so the holes only partially match, Mr Shonkies motor rebuilds maybe to try to cover the fact a motor has low oil pressure, but in the correct rebuild world, the oil holes in the cam tunnel should be completely seen through the holes in the cam bearings...... and lapping compound as assembly lube... fark off, the whole idea of lapping compound is to wear stuff when it's placed between two components.... I can only imagine what it would do to the rest of the motor once it's circulated throughout the system via the oil.....

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

I'd be surprised if Delta couldn't clean up your cam- even just the eccentric lobe, and reharden it. prolly just a week of turn around time, just north of you in Wa...

 

[Kief]

Quick vid' of line boring- They need to be within clearance specifications and also in alignment. This would be measured inside the bearing and outside the respective cam bearings. The bearings can get deformed in installation. Its not worth doing it wrong. Used to used might be fine. If it doesn't spin freely with a light oil film I'd have a machinist check it out. The factory manual pretty much spells out the proper measuring and installation methods. Without a bunch of quality measuring devices I usually hand test some things with a light film of oil and check for play and use feeler gauges for checking thrust as per factory specs.

 

[landcruiser80]

Instead of starting a new thread I will ask this question here. I am rebuilding a 2f block and I just got the parts back from the machine shop. I asked them to install the cam bearings for me. Well they did install them but they aren't lined up 100%, much like the pictures that the OP posted. I asked them about this and they said it was alright. Also there is a grove worn in the first bearing, is that supposed to be there?
Here is a picture of the first bearing, they all are like that.

Is this OK? Or should I have the bearings reinstalled so the holes line up 100%?

 

[Kief]

The alignment on the hole is OK, that groove has been added and looks like someone thought it should be there and Toyota spec's nothing of the sort in the manuals. It might be OK but I think it will eventually result in low oil pressure. Unacceptable I'm my book. If that is a through-hole to another oil passage then it's really unacceptable.

 

[landcruiser80]

Hmm, I almost wondered if that grove was actually supposed to be there. If you look in the second picture in the thread, though it is out of focus, it almost looks like there is a grove on that bearing. But if there isn't supposed to be a grove there, then I don't want a grove there.

 

[landcruiser80]

The alignment on the hole is OK, that groove has been added and looks like someone thought it should be there and Toyota spec's nothing of the sort in the manuals. It might be OK but I think it will eventually result in low oil pressure. Unacceptable I'm my book. If that is a through-hole to another oil passage then it's really unacceptable.

Actually, I am now convinced that there is supposed to be a grove there. I found a couple of different pictures in build threads and a grove is apparent. Here a two examples,

And to top it off, I found a picture in the FSM which indicates that there is supposed to be a grove there.

I guess it is just a sloppy looking grove in my bearing. My only question now is whether the alignment is OK. I am thinking that it should be alright, I just wanted to double check it.

 

[Kief]

OK.. my bad, I just don't remember any thing that looked like that hand grooved action- so is that the front bearing? Are the other ones like that? Is that perhaps a source for something on the front of the block like a timer gear oiler? Its been a while

 

[mtnphilosopher]

That's what I'm thinking, Kief.
If memory serves, that groove on the front bearing is for the timing gear oiler.

Brad

 

[FJ40Jim]

The groove bleeds oil pressure out to the sguirter nozzle in the front plate. If you can see most of the hole, alignment is fine.

Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[landcruiser80]

Thanks! Your the man.