I've started having a problem starting my FJ60 with a 3B conversion. It doesn't happen on every start but it is becoming more frequent where when you turn the key over the voltmeter goes straight down like a dead battery and you get nothing at all from the starter. I have a dual battery system and both batteries test good, the glow plug relay engages and you can see the voltage drop with no problem. If you continue to turn the key over and over you can eventually get the starter to engage and when it does it does not drag as though it isn't getting good voltage it just starts as normal. After searching it looked as though the starter itself might be the problem with worn brushes so I just changed out the starter to another one I had as a spare but the problem followed over with no change. Any suggestions would be welcome as this is my DD and I don't want to just start throwing parts at it and then have it go down for good. I assume that the solenoid would be my next move but thought it would put it to the experts first.
Starting issue in 3B (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter citjet
- Start date
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Not sure how you tested the batteries, but I would look there before assuming it's the starter. I have seen batteries that appear to be 12v when tested with a volt meter, but which have an internal short that only shows up when tested under load. Might also be a wiring/grounding problem that only shows under load. just my 2 cents…..
As Estanicio says, without a load test ,its pointless. Try getting someone to start the vehicle while the test meter on the batteries. If they are dropping to 10v or under ,that's your problem.
You have the spare starter from before,get that bench tested to see if it was the problem .You could have 2 bad starters.
You have the spare starter from before,get that bench tested to see if it was the problem .You could have 2 bad starters.
- Thread starter
- #4
Both batteries were tested under load and were ok but they were close to end of life anyway so I just replaced them both with new ones. Unfortunently the problem is still them same as before. Rosco, you might be right on the 2 bad starter deal I will have to have the new starter bench checked as well as I assumed it would be good to go. Are there any other known problems with the system that I can diagnose before I have to pull the starter again? I need to find wiring diagram for 3B 
bj40green
Tssss, tssss
There is another possibility; You can have 12V at the battery under load but (much) less at the starter motor.
Often caused by bad cables/contacts, connectors, terminals, corrosion...... and so on.
Check with your voltmeter attached to the starter housing and the +B on the starter to see what you get.
Rudi
Often caused by bad cables/contacts, connectors, terminals, corrosion...... and so on.
Check with your voltmeter attached to the starter housing and the +B on the starter to see what you get.
Rudi
Check the earth lead at the engine block. They often corrode away silently out of view.
yotahed
Diesel Head
Also check for a ground wire between starter and frame ad this may have been ommited in the swap... And check all other cables/grounds as said above.
- Thread starter
- #9
Yota, you're the winner. The ground wire was never connected between starter and frame and would only get enough voltage after multiple attempts to turn the starter over. After running new ground lead the starter turns over every time and it even solved a couple of other gremlins that obviously were suffering from the same problem. Thanks to all for the suggestions
yotahed
Diesel Head
Beautiful. I found mine worked a lot better shortly after my swap after running a frame to starter ground. Glad to hear your up and running.
Sorry to revive this ancient thread. I was up many hours reading ih8mud to diagnose the issue and this thread best described my problem (and nailed the solution!) Hopefully someone else will find my data useful.
Vehicle is 1984 Canadian bj60, 12volt, 2 batteries, Thompson switch. Previous owner was impetuous and seemed to have extra speaker wire. Lots of spare wires zip-tied together. Lots of unplugged things (mostly from auto-glow system.)
Truck developed problem after sitting undriven for a few weeks. For in-car readings I used a cigarette lighter volt meter. Symptoms were all over the map but primary problem was:
- turn key one click, inside voltage is 10.4, yet batteries show 12.5 volts.
- turn key another click, voltage drops to 6-7 or below, yet batteries show 12.5 volts. The inside voltmeter barely displays at such low voltage.
Other times (seemingly randomly over 2 hours of exploring.)
- turn key one click, 10.4 volts
- turn key another click it stays at 10.4... woo!
o Hit glow switch and voltage dives to zero. Battery voltage never changed.
o Hit brake pedal and voltage dives to zero.
o Try and crank and voltage dives to zero.
After diving to zero the truck is dead for 30 seconds or so, then voltage recovers. The entire time the battery voltage is stable at 12.5.
I measure voltage and resistance across many places in engine bay. All seems fine. 0.3 ohms from starter to battery, from starter solenoid to battery. Cleaned battery posts and all cable ends. No difference.
Used jumper cables to ground all sorts of stuff (starter, block, frame) back to the - battery terminal. Made no difference. Jumped right battery to my... other... bj60... inside voltage shows 12.4. Try to glow and voltage goes to 6-7. Try to start, it cranks! A few seconds. Almost starts. When I stop cranking the inside voltage goes to 6-7 again.
Hmm. If jumping sort of works? Took batteries in for load test, supremely uninformative test machine gave them 'pass' light when set to 700cca.
Figured based on this thread to just build new ground cables because the old ones were so ugly. Worst case I have nice new cables.
Built new ground cable from 0/1 cable I got from Napa ($7.5/foot), and some other 0/1 cable from Lowes (napa ran out). The napa stuff was flexible, lowes was THWN-2 and is much harder to bend. Expensive fittings were $2 each. Crimped in big vice. For kicks I also replaced the ends on the hot wire from + of right battery to alternator.
Cables replaced:
- left negative to left battery tray bolt
- left battery tray bolt to left engine block
- right negative to right battery tray bolt
- right battery tray bolt to right engine block
- ends on that alternator cable
After bolting the cables on... success. Everything is perfect and back to normal.
In all of this the only thing I found wrong: I noticed that the - battery terminal clamp for the right battery was quite loose. Resistance of old cables seems fine so must have been that slightly loose clamp on the right side? When playing with jumpers I only grounded to left battery (battery + are connected with cable but negative are each independently grounded to body and block.) In hindsight I'm guessing the truck would have started working if I'd just jumpered the left and right - terminals (because I believe the left ground was good.)
Advice for building your own ground cables: After building and installing the new cables I did some research. The cheap cable from lowes is made of fewer thick sold copper wires. It is too stiff and will not age well given the motion of the diesel motor relative to the body. Marine cable is zinc coated, is the most flexible and has the best temperature and chemical resistance, and 0/1 is sold locally for between $4.50 and $7/foot. If I ever do this again I'm using that stuff. Also I'm going to get some good copper battery terminals.
Thanks awesome forum!
Vehicle is 1984 Canadian bj60, 12volt, 2 batteries, Thompson switch. Previous owner was impetuous and seemed to have extra speaker wire. Lots of spare wires zip-tied together. Lots of unplugged things (mostly from auto-glow system.)
Truck developed problem after sitting undriven for a few weeks. For in-car readings I used a cigarette lighter volt meter. Symptoms were all over the map but primary problem was:
- turn key one click, inside voltage is 10.4, yet batteries show 12.5 volts.
- turn key another click, voltage drops to 6-7 or below, yet batteries show 12.5 volts. The inside voltmeter barely displays at such low voltage.
Other times (seemingly randomly over 2 hours of exploring.)
- turn key one click, 10.4 volts
- turn key another click it stays at 10.4... woo!
o Hit glow switch and voltage dives to zero. Battery voltage never changed.
o Hit brake pedal and voltage dives to zero.
o Try and crank and voltage dives to zero.
After diving to zero the truck is dead for 30 seconds or so, then voltage recovers. The entire time the battery voltage is stable at 12.5.
I measure voltage and resistance across many places in engine bay. All seems fine. 0.3 ohms from starter to battery, from starter solenoid to battery. Cleaned battery posts and all cable ends. No difference.
Used jumper cables to ground all sorts of stuff (starter, block, frame) back to the - battery terminal. Made no difference. Jumped right battery to my... other... bj60... inside voltage shows 12.4. Try to glow and voltage goes to 6-7. Try to start, it cranks! A few seconds. Almost starts. When I stop cranking the inside voltage goes to 6-7 again.
Hmm. If jumping sort of works? Took batteries in for load test, supremely uninformative test machine gave them 'pass' light when set to 700cca.
Figured based on this thread to just build new ground cables because the old ones were so ugly. Worst case I have nice new cables.
Built new ground cable from 0/1 cable I got from Napa ($7.5/foot), and some other 0/1 cable from Lowes (napa ran out). The napa stuff was flexible, lowes was THWN-2 and is much harder to bend. Expensive fittings were $2 each. Crimped in big vice. For kicks I also replaced the ends on the hot wire from + of right battery to alternator.
Cables replaced:
- left negative to left battery tray bolt
- left battery tray bolt to left engine block
- right negative to right battery tray bolt
- right battery tray bolt to right engine block
- ends on that alternator cable
After bolting the cables on... success. Everything is perfect and back to normal.
In all of this the only thing I found wrong: I noticed that the - battery terminal clamp for the right battery was quite loose. Resistance of old cables seems fine so must have been that slightly loose clamp on the right side? When playing with jumpers I only grounded to left battery (battery + are connected with cable but negative are each independently grounded to body and block.) In hindsight I'm guessing the truck would have started working if I'd just jumpered the left and right - terminals (because I believe the left ground was good.)
Advice for building your own ground cables: After building and installing the new cables I did some research. The cheap cable from lowes is made of fewer thick sold copper wires. It is too stiff and will not age well given the motion of the diesel motor relative to the body. Marine cable is zinc coated, is the most flexible and has the best temperature and chemical resistance, and 0/1 is sold locally for between $4.50 and $7/foot. If I ever do this again I'm using that stuff. Also I'm going to get some good copper battery terminals.
Thanks awesome forum!
bj40green
Tssss, tssss
Congrats. Good write up.
You won't find a bad connection with an ohm meter in cables this size. Even when 3/4 of the strands are broken, your ohm meter shows close to 0 ohm. You were on the right track with the jumper cables.
Another way to find out where it goes wrong is to check for voltage drop over a cable.
I.e. test from Battery + to starter or from battery - to ground. If the meter shows more than 0.2V you know that that one is the bad one.
Rudi
You won't find a bad connection with an ohm meter in cables this size. Even when 3/4 of the strands are broken, your ohm meter shows close to 0 ohm. You were on the right track with the jumper cables.
Another way to find out where it goes wrong is to check for voltage drop over a cable.
I.e. test from Battery + to starter or from battery - to ground. If the meter shows more than 0.2V you know that that one is the bad one.
Rudi
You can also coat the inside of your lug connectors with a little dielectric grease to help prevent corrosion/resistance and I would also use heat shrink wrap as well. 
