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ZREM

ZREM

10 Year 15 Year
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Threads
15
Messages
142
Location
Fort Collins, CO
Hello 200 Series people! Looking for some perspective from you all.

I am currently in a '98 100 Series that I purchased from @mcgaskins over 5 years ago. It has performed admirably throughout my ownership, but my needs have changed a bit and I am in the midst of an existential crisis now.

Here's a pic from last week, b/c we all like pics.

adeknQjtRLGyejOXnM1SPg.webp


Okay, back to my crisis.

I find myself towing my 4000lb travel trailer more than I am in 4LO. If I lived somewhere flat and at sea level, this would be fine. But I live in CO and I am regularly summiting high mountain passes with steep grades. The 100 just isn't cutting it, and I am not looking to dump a bunch of money trying to make it work for my needs (gears, headers) when in reality a 228HP 4.7 with a 4spd transmission just isn't going to please me.

So, the search begins for something that is still quite capable off-road, but can tow my camper with less stress.

Some guard rails:
  • Fits in my standard 2 car garage - I don't want a full size truck
  • Budget is $35k - $40k
  • Room for 2 kids (5 and 9) and a 100lb dog, 3rd row seat not a necessity
  • I don't really care about fuel mileage
  • Tailgate, it has to have a tailgate
  • Capable off-road rig - while I spend less time than I used to in 4LO, I still really enjoy hitting the trails throughout CO and Moab multiple times per year
What I'm considering:
  • 200 Series with under 75k miles, likely 2014+
    • Proper power, would need some mods ($$), very comfortable and capable
  • 2020 Tacoma TRD Off-Road
    • Brand new, safety features galore, huge aftermarket support, 33s would hurt towing capability
    • 3.5 V6 lacking low end power
  • 2016+ Tacoma TRD Off-Road and add a supercharger
    • Reliability concerns with supercharger
  • 2018 + Chevy Colorado ZR2 (V6)
    • Not a Toyota, is it reliable?
With all of these options, I would look to do a mild build with armor and 33s likely.

What are your thoughts? I am assuming that many of you worked your way up to a 200 and have perhaps owned a Tacoma and can chime in with perspective.

Cheers :beer::beer:
 
This is a LC200 forum so your answers may be a little biased ;)

I would prefer strong V8 power for the towing needs you mentioned. Not sure if the Tacoma would be a huge improvement over the 100 series. The ZR2 packs a little more power, but yes reliability is a concern - the diesel version also has a fair amount of torque.

I would lean towards the used 200 series, or alternatively, a Lexus GX460. You get the 4.6 V8, three rows, Lexus luxury features, the Land Cruiser Prado 150 chassis and design, reliability, a slightly more compact body for your garage, and a strong aftermarket. Plus you should be able to get a newer and lower mileage model than the 200 series in the same price range.
 
Having driven the newer Tacoma's with the 3.5. You'll hate it! I'm near sea level and it was hunting between 5th and 6th constantly on the highway. It's a Camry/Avalon motor and you can tell it's not meant to be in a truck. I can't imagine how much worse it'd be at elevation and towing. If you want a taco the 4.0 would be better suited.
Also the inside of the new Tacoma's is really small IMO. Your kids will be kicking your seat.

Won't touch on 200 since you came here because you already know it's the best choice.
 
Going from my tundra and LC to my father in laws Tacoma I just can’t stand the power drop. We used to tow an airstream and I can’t imagine wanting to tow one with a Tacoma. I would stick with the v8
 
Go take a hard look at a newer gx460, I cross shopped that with a 200. They are pretty tempting for the money.... lots of space and decent power. They also have pretty good aftermarket support.

Not to talk you out of a 200 series.
 
One thing to consider is that adding armor and all the extra weight is one of the key reasons people here have re-geared their 200's. Most have said it's like a new vehicle. If you're looking for a cruiser on 33's, armored up, you may be looking at re-gearing anyways. I reckon it'll be cheaper to do that on your 100 than to buy a newer vehicle, armor up, increase tire size and then have the same problem you have now. Just my thoughts.
 
Great thoughts, thanks all! Keep 'em coming.

I really like the idea of the GX460, but it has one fatal flaw for me. The rear door swings open in a way that would keep me from opening it with the camper attached (the tongue lift thing is in the way). Definitely need to access the back during road trips to let the dog out.

My hope with whatever is next is to build it with weight in mind. Lessons learned from the 100 - I don't need a winch, I don't need rear swing arms, if I can find aluminum skids they will probably do fine.

As for re-gearing, appreciate the comment about loading up a 200 and needing to re-gear. I am hoping that 380 HP would leave me satisfied, but if I had to re-gear, would rather do it on a newer truck that I will keep a while than a 22 year old with 190k on the clock.
 
I think you already know what you want your answer to be. And what we'd recommend.

I normally would also recommend a GX460/470 as an alternative. You already have your deal breaker. To add a bit more, it's not the most stable towing platform on account of short wheelbase, long rear overhang, and very soft suspension. In other travel trailer forums, the GX in particular gets singled out as one of the poorer performing tow vehicles stability wise. It's got the power. Great for a 4000lb teardrop or off-road overland trailer. Travel trailers tend to catch more cross winds and need more stability.

Some of that can be said for the cruisers which have retained the same wheelbase since the 80-series. But it has the advantage of mass, width, and big bones. In my use, has been nothing but stable.

I think your question really is asking how the 200-series performs towing, with 33s, and some added weight. I have wide 33.2" tall tires. I don't have armor, but I have done extensive travels with 6 people in the vehicle plus gear at about ~1800lbs (including tongue weight) payload, towing a ~7500lbs trailer. My trailer is at the upper end of the spec towing capacity. The 200-series with its 5.7L hauls the mail with stock gearing. At 8000ft elevation, the power is damped, but still strong.

I'd have no qualms that a 200-series can meet your (power) needs. Because that's what it is, an updated 100-series with more capacity and powah!
 
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ZREM said:
Hello 200 Series people! Looking for some perspective from you all.

I am currently in a '98 100 Series that I purchased from @mcgaskins over 5 years ago. It has performed admirably throughout my ownership, but my needs have changed a bit and I am in the midst of an existential crisis now.

Here's a pic from last week, b/c we all like pics.

View attachment 2346855

Okay, back to my crisis.

I find myself towing my 4000lb travel trailer more than I am in 4LO. If I lived somewhere flat and at sea level, this would be fine. But I live in CO and I am regularly summiting high mountain passes with steep grades. The 100 just isn't cutting it, and I am not looking to dump a bunch of money trying to make it work for my needs (gears, headers) when in reality a 228HP 4.7 with a 4spd transmission just isn't going to please me.

So, the search begins for something that is still quite capable off-road, but can tow my camper with less stress.

Some guard rails:
  • Fits in my standard 2 car garage - I don't want a full size truck
  • Budget is $35k - $40k
  • Room for 2 kids (5 and 9) and a 100lb dog, 3rd row seat not a necessity
  • I don't really care about fuel mileage
  • Tailgate, it has to have a tailgate
  • Capable off-road rig - while I spend less time than I used to in 4LO, I still really enjoy hitting the trails throughout CO and Moab multiple times per year
What I'm considering:
  • 200 Series with under 75k miles, likely 2014+
    • Proper power, would need some mods ($$), very comfortable and capable
  • 2020 Tacoma TRD Off-Road
    • Brand new, safety features galore, huge aftermarket support, 33s would hurt towing capability
    • 3.5 V6 lacking low end power
  • 2016+ Tacoma TRD Off-Road and add a supercharger
    • Reliability concerns with supercharger
  • 2018 + Chevy Colorado ZR2 (V6)
    • Not a Toyota, is it reliable?
With all of these options, I would look to do a mild build with armor and 33s likely.

What are your thoughts? I am assuming that many of you worked your way up to a 200 and have perhaps owned a Tacoma and can chime in with perspective.

Cheers :beer::beer:
Click to expand...

Hey man nice to see you here - the hundy looks awesome! It sounds like the 200 would be a perfect next vehicle for you guys. Any time you're near Denver, you're welcome to come over and drive our 200 to see what you think. The powertrain really is a massive improvement over the 100, but it also just has more stuff that comes along with being a newer platform (like true 4 zone climate control and heated rear seats). I can tell you all about the pros and cons of the 200, so feel free to stop by any time!
 
I have not towed 4k with my LC but have a few thoughts. I also own a F350 (SRW) with a 4k+ camper in the bed so I do understand carrying or towing a heavy load.

I can't imagine that a Tacoma or 4runner would be better than your current LC. I owned a GX470 and when shopping for a new car I didn't consider the newer 4unner/Taco because of my family size (three small kids) and most of all the motor. I have had Tacoma's and 4runners as rentals and immediately notice the power difference. Even had a 2WD TRD Tacoma (with locker) - cool truck but the power is significantly less. I really like the Tacoma but in my opinion it's not a truck for hauling a decent size trailer.

Supercharger - surely would be helpful - I can't comment unless it's an LR4 and then I like the supercharger. That said, Land Rover reliability is not something that should be expected.... Toyota reliability is something that you can count on in my experience.

Others suggested the GX460, I rented a LC Prado (GX460 body) diesel in Costa Rica with my family, I really liked that vehicle. If that diesel was in the states I would probably buy it. We took it all over CR, terrible roads and river crossings, I was very impressed with the platform and it was stock. My best friend has a GX460 and it is a very nice vehicle - the platform is excellent.

I have a buddy with a new ZR2 diesel, it's chipped and puts out a good amount of power, the torque is impressive and it's a nice truck. It is very different from an LC. The road noise alone is something you immediately notice.

If you like your 100, I think that the 200 is just all around better... Newer and familiar until you drive it, the 5.7 is significantly better.

That said, unless you go to a big diesel most trucks are going to work at your elevation. My F350 V10 with a good amount of modification is working pulling 6% grade at 2-4k' and maxed 11.4k GVWR. I think the LC pulling 4k would also be working hard @6% and loaded.
 
 
958 Cayenne Turbo for $16k, then have 20k left over for mods and repairs.
 
I just traded a Tacoma TRD off-road In for my 200. It would have been a fine truck for a single guy. It sucked for the family. My 5 and 8 year old were crammed in the back seat. There was no room for anything inside when we travelled as a family. total rodeo once we added a dog. Really disappointing power and transmission. It had a hard time getting out of its own way. I can’t imagine towing anything with it.

The whole family loves the 200. I can’t imagine a better all around family adventure mobile.
 
If you want a tailgate but no full size truck, your limited to Tacoma, 200 series, ranger, Colorado, Range Rover LWB, and BMW X5.

i don’t think any of those small pickups will tow much better than the 100. Therefore the only rational option is the X5M with over 600hp.
 
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Do you 200 guys have the same fuel vapor/boiling issues as us 100 guys up here at altitude?
 
danny noonan said:
I just traded a Tacoma TRD off-road In for my 200. It would have been a fine truck for a single guy. It sucked for the family. My 5 and 8 year old were crammed in the back seat. There was no room for anything inside when we travelled as a family. total rodeo once we added a dog. Really disappointing power and transmission. It had a hard time getting out of its own way. I can’t imagine towing anything with it.

The whole family loves the 200. I can’t imagine a better all around family adventure mobile.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I owned several Tacomas. Was excited about the latest generation, but never could bring myself to like it. Weird power curve, terrible fuel economy (especially loaded), bad seating position, turned like a battleship and my daughter quickly outgrew the back seat. Selling a 2018 Taco for a 2014 200 seemed backwards at the time, but I've never looked back.
 
ZREM said:
Do you 200 guys have the same fuel vapor/boiling issues as us 100 guys up here at altitude?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, we do :bang: I have experienced it in both the 14 and 16 trucks, but the 14 did it worse and would even boil just from highway driving when it was above 90 degrees. We drove it from Denver to Boulder one day all highway when it was in the mid 90s, and when we parked in a parking lot there was gas literally coming out of the fuel filler and it smelled like gas really bad in the cab at low speeds. I thought it was just a fluke, but then I experienced it wheeling in CO and in UT. The 16 I had did it as well, though not nearly as badly. I don't think the 16 ever did it from driving on pavement, but it would still do it at high elevations even when it wasn't very hot like mid 60s on Red Cone. It appears to be an issue that affects most trucks unfortunately, and some people have thrown a lot of parts at it to try to fix: evap canister, fuel caps, etc. with little long term resolution. The best theory I've heard is there is not enough heat shielding from the exhaust which is routed too closely to the gas tank and causes the issues, but the long story short is - it appears to be a "Land Cruiser thing" both for 100s and 200s.
 
I often tow a ~3000lb travel trailer, and have towed a lot with a Tacoma. I also have 2 kids and 2 dogs. Here's my experience:
If I were towing with a Tacoma, I'd go with a second Gen 4.0 with the six speed manual. I towed 6000lb (tractor/loader on a car hauler trailer) with an Access Cab 4.0 with the 6 speed Manual Taco from SC to NH at it did great. I sold this Tacoma when we had our first kid and replaced it with a Double Cab Long Bed with the 4.0 and the Auto. I never felt like the Auto was as good towing as the manual was. The back seat of the Tacoma Crew Cab was cramped, and the Double Cab Long Bed is way too long. It's a much less enjoyable vehicle to park and live with, and won't fit in your garage.
I sold the DCLB after a few trips with the second kid and replaced it with a 2008 200 Series Cruiser. It was night and day better at towing, much more comfortable for travelling, and really didn't get much worse mileage than the Tacomas did.

If I were in your shoes, I'd either get a 200 series, or a second generation 4.0 Tacoma with the 6 speed Manual. I've heard of too many issues with the 3rd gen Tacomas, and I don't like the power delivery profile of the newer V6 either. If you end up going the Tacoma route, (or any truck) you'll want a camper shell for the dogs and other gear that definitely won't fit inside the cab.
 
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