Builds V8 (SBC) to V8 (Gen III Vortec) swap in my FJ60... (2 Viewers)

[orion]

Hey guys...posting a new thread for this chapter of my FJ60 "build"...

The original build thread is here: "Revamp" - My project FJ60 (SBC + Ranger OD / OME / etc...)

Figured it might be useful to have the Vortec swap info in a more obvious / easier to find later place, for others doing something similar.

Where we are now:

Last October, I bought an FJ60 with a SBC (305) V8 swapped in. It ran OK, but had a bunch of little problems, and "I'd like to make this better" issues (many of those fixes and upgrades are covered in the thread posted above).

But when I really got down to it...to have the truck where I want it, I needed to make a number of changes: Convert it to fuel injection, redo the entire pass. side of the exhaust (and fix the other misc exhaust leaks), upgrade the alternator, and likely rebuild the lower end and heads (heads need valve seals, at least). I was looking at $1500 or more just to get it up to par, and with a bunch of aftermarket parts (higher chance of failure, in my experience).

And I'd still have an underpowered 305 that would likely leak a little oil (as they all seem to do)...

So the "one and done" solution is to swap in a LSx motor.

I chose a 4.8 out of a 2001 Silverado (LR4 motor). It's your standard "Gen III Vortec", like the 5.3 and 6.0 motors that are more common.

You might be thinking WHY a 4.8? Well, it's rated at 270hp/295tq...the SBC in there now is probably 200/250 (on a good day), and stock power is 135/200. So it's a huge upgrade over stock, a solid improvement on the current SBC...and the limited TQ might help ward off breakage if I get an angry right foot.

I couldn't see spending nearly twice as much for a 6.0...and even the 5.3's were another $500 or more....for not much gain, in this application.

Plus, I should get pretty decent fuel economy with the smaller motor (which is important, in remote places or long highway drives).

Reliability is paramount here, so I'm going to use stuff available at your average parts store over custom or specialty parts...if possible. If I break down 500 miles from home, I want to be able to source parts easily.

...

Here's where I began, just 10 days ago:

I mainly get time to work on the truck for 30-45min each evening, after my kids are asleep...but if you keep plugging along, you can make a lot of progress this way.

The pic above was taken just after ordering the motor (I didn't want to tear the truck apart until it was "official"!!!).

(post continued, below...)

 

[orion]

Then the motor was delivered. Any day an 18-wheeler delivers parts to your house, is a good day:

And the new motor, waiting patiently to be hoisted into place (after converting the wire harness, retuning the PCM, new motor mounts, headers, swapping on Toyota sensors, etc, etc...)

...

OK, on to some new pics and content.

Got the motor ready to be pulled out last Saturday:

And used a borrowed engine hoist to yank it out:

So here we are as of today.

I've also torn down the Vortec (harness off, fan off, exhaust manifolds off, EGR and EVAP purge solenoid are off, etc...) to get it ready for upgrades before it's dropped in place.

...

I've taken some notes on parts required, things to consider, and have some part numbers to post...so see the next reply.

- Brian

 

[orion]

I began this swap with the mentality of a "budget swap"...keep it simple, fix all the issues I had with the old V8, do only what's necessary to get it up and running. But that quickly went to "well, I'm already doing all this work, so...." and I started ordering parts .

Anyway, here's a list of what's going to be needed to put a Vortec in place of my 305 (SBC):

Wire Harness / PCM: Thanks to numerous sites on the web, you can find step-by-step instructions to strip a stock wire harness down to the bare essentials, and then you retune your PCM (engine control computer) to remove the security stuff (VATS) and emissions compliance sensors. Simple, but time consuming. I'm working on this now.

Fuse Block, Relays: You need to add several fuses for the harness (to power the fuel injectors, coils, etc...), and a couple relays to provide power to the PCM and fuel pump. I'm also using a relay to trigger the starter (controlled by the aging Toyota starter wire), and one for the AC compressor (already wired up on the SBC conversion, will just rewire it to the new Vortec compressor). I have a complete underhood fusebox from a 1995 240SX that I'm going to use (again: OEM is more reliable than aftermarket, IMO)

Transmission: I already have an old-school Chevy truck bellhousing (cast iron, part #3925505) bolted to a Ranger Overdrive unit (that is connected to my stock H42 trans and splitcase). The LSx/Vortec motors bolt right to a SBC-pattern bellhousing, but there's one bolt hole that's missing on the Vortec block (no big deal, according to people making lots of HP in Camaros and such with Muncie transmissions).

Flywheel: Most of the 4.8 / 5.3 / 6.0 LSx cranks sit .400" closer to the rear of the block (as compared to a 305 / 350 SBC), so you need a thicker flywheel to compensate. Sachs makes an OE replacement for some of the 6.0 trucks with a manual transmission...part # NFW1050. Can be used a standard 11" Chevy 'old school' clutch when using a Muncie / SM465 type trans behind a LSx motor.

Pilot Bearing: To address the same issue as the flywheel...there is an LS2 pilot bearing that sits in the large opening in the crank (not as deep as a regular pilot bushing), and it will allow the transmission 'snout' to engage the bushing. Chevy part #12557583 (more on this later).

Fuel Pump: Have to convert to an electric pump, for 58-60psi at the rail. An in-tank pump is arguably best, but I'm going to start with a AirTex E2000 external. It's an OE pump from some early-90's Ford, so I can source a replacement pretty easily at any auto parts store, if necessary.

Motor Mounts: I might use some conversion plates that bolt to the Vortec block, and will allow me to use the SBC mounts that are already welded to the frame rail of my FJ60...but it's more likely I'll use some "LS Swap" mounts from somewhere, and weld those in for better placement.

Fuel Line Connectors: Dorman makes some "chevy quick connect" to barb fitting adapters...I need one in 3/8" (fuel feed to the rail), and one in 5/16" (return line). These will allow me to run fuel injection hose to the existing FJ60 fuel hard lines that go to the tank.

Exhaust Manifolds: The stock LSx truck manifolds are a little wide, and the drivers side dumps out right at my clutch slave cylinder...so either OEM Camaro/GTO manifolds could be used (depends on where your engine sits F-to-R)...or you can go aftermarket headers (shorties, block huggers). I prefer cast iron manifolds for durability and gasket sealing, as well as sound control...but none of the OEM options were striking my fancy. I'm planning to buy some Tru-Ram cast stainless steel manifolds. Will post more on that if I pull the trigger...they are $$$.

EDIT: Decided to splurge, and bought 'em:

(stock photo from the web)

They have a standard 3" header collector...I'll get some 3" --> 2.25" reducers, run the pass. side exhaust under the drivetrain somewhere, use a dual 2.25" to single 2.5" y-pipe...then run that to a muffler, and out the back.

Radiator: I have an aluminum radiator already, and I'll reuse it...along with an OEM upper hose from a Tahoe / Silverado (they also run to a drivers side inlet radiator, so it should be a close fit). (EDIT: The OEM Chevy upper hose is a non-starter...gonna have to use something else) - On these Vortec motors, you have to put the 'steam port' vent line somewhere near the top of the radiator (or in the upper hose). This is because the coolant passages in the heads are all below the water pump ports and heater hoses. That means air/steam can get trapped, and you'll have overheating issues. I'm addressing this by using a radiator hose adapter (1.25" to 1.25") with a 1/8 NPT hose barb to connect the steam port line. This will let the air bubbles / steam to escape the head, just like in the factory GM setup. The lower radiator hose (pics posted later in this thread) is a part number I found on here, Gates 22310. Works perfectly.

Radiator Fan: I'm hoping I have room for the GM plastic fan, and I am going to make a radiator shroud of some sort to help direct the airflow. I'll also add an electric fan, for when the A/C is running and/or hotter days. This will be PCM controlled (tuners can activate an unused pin that can be used to trigger an external relay). (EDIT: No room for the plastic fan...interferes with the intake, and no room between the radiator)

A/C Lines: Gotta be custom. I'll probably upgrade my condensor as others have done (from the Toyota original to a parallel flow (16x26) condensor. If I'm having lines built anyway, might as well get the benefit of the better condensor style for my hot and humid state (Florida).

...

MISC / Other:

Block off plates for the EGR hole in the intake manifold and the EVAP purge solenoid (Made by ICT - Billet aluminum, cool little parts).

ARP bolts for the flywheel and pressure plate.

I'm replacing my clutch "while I'm in there"...using a LuK kit, #04-049 (11" disc, 10-spline, and the pressure plate bolts right up to the Sachs 1050 flywheel).

...

Anyway, that's all I can think of for now. I will add more as I go, and post pics of the swap along the way.

Hoping to make some progress on the harness today after work.

Thanks for following along.

- Brian

 

[collk22]

Good luck and keep it up. I wish I had the time, knowledge and facilities to do something like this myself.

 

[gregnash]

Nice dude, and I think you are the second guy in recent months that has decided to go with the 4.8L. Seems that they are just a high revving version of the 5.3/6.0 but share the same block. So really, if you wanted to, down the road you could do some upgrades to the engine and essentially make it a 5.3 or 6.0. Since you engine is out of an '01 Silverado it is still drive by cable right? I had compiled some helpful items when I was looking at trying to do a swap a number of months ago. Lots of different part numbers and "best practice" items (like using the H3 pan and oil pump to clear the front pumpkin) from a number of different threads.

And not sure if you are or not, your post makes it somewhat sound like it, but are you tackling the wiring harness yourself or sending it off to someone to have it stripped down and the PCM reflashed.

 

[orion]

Good luck and keep it up. I wish I had the time, knowledge and facilities to do something like this myself.

Thanks, and will do.

Time is the hardest one to come by, for me!

Nice dude, and I think you are the second guy in recent months that has decided to go with the 4.8L. Seems that they are just a high revving version of the 5.3/6.0 but share the same block. So really, if you wanted to, down the road you could do some upgrades to the engine and essentially make it a 5.3 or 6.0. Since you engine is out of an '01 Silverado it is still drive by cable right? I had compiled some helpful items when I was looking at trying to do a swap a number of months ago. Lots of different part numbers and "best practice" items (like using the H3 pan and oil pump to clear the front pumpkin) from a number of different threads.

And not sure if you are or not, your post makes it somewhat sound like it, but are you tackling the wiring harness yourself or sending it off to someone to have it stripped down and the PCM reflashed.

Yeah, the 4.8 is just a short-stroke 5.3. I like the rev-happy nature of a short stroke motor. For a long time, I raced sportscars and drove open track events...I think this motor should let me run the RPM's up to 6000 every once and awhile, get that old feeling back!

I am doing the harness work - It's quite simple (using the online guides and resources), and since I plan to integrate that 240SX underhood fusebox...I'd be doing a lot of wiring anyway, even if I sent it out. Part of the reason I picked an earlier motor was that the info is widely available. I will send out the PCM, of course...likely to the "LT1swap.com" guy...as his website (wiring info) has been the most helpful, so I'd like him to get my $$$.

It is drive by cable - A preference of mine, one less electronic thing to worry about.

I think I have enough front lift, plus the motor should be high enough in the engine bay...that the stock truck pan will clear. That remains to be seen, but I don't expect to have to use something else. We will see.

- Brian

 

[NCFJ]

Get the hot rod pan from GM, you'll be happy that you did

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-19212593

 

[norsk]

Looks great, similar to what I did for my GMC pu (see signature) after I put a SBC in my FJ60 (I learned from that - do Gen III LS engines) (also see signature)

Your plan will work

dougbert

 

[Gumby]

The 4.8 is a good cheap stepping stone, but I wouldn't try to pass it off as a better motor in any way. A 60 is not a vehicle to be ripping around at 6k. You want the torque and grunt of a 6.0. Same size motor. Price is about the only good reason to do a 4.8.

295 ft lbs vs 370 is not a small difference.

6.0 also came with a Th400 in 99-00 so you dont need the thicker spacer. they already have the longer crank.

 

[norsk]

Good luck and keep it up. I wish I had the time, knowledge and facilities to do something like this myself.

I bought my FJ60 back in 2008 worked on it but engine (rings) died and it has been offline since 2011 as I have been putting in a SBC (learned I should have done a Gen III 5.3L) and renewing the rigs. Time has passed whether I did it or not and my knowledge grew since then. I have done most of my work in a field (that is OUTSIDE) with tarps and other protections, on both my projects. See signature for more info

dougbert

 

[brownfj60]

Nice write-up! Subscribed!

 

[orion]

Get the hot rod pan from GM, you'll be happy that you did

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/nal-19212593

Thanks for the input - I know that you're an expert on these swaps, I appreciate you taking the time to give me a tip.

Looks great, similar to what I did for my GMC pu (see signature) after I put a SBC in my FJ60 (I learned from that - do Gen III LS engines) (also see signature)

Your plan will work...

Thanks, @norsk ...you guys will be the first to know if any part of the plan doesn't work!

The 4.8 is a good cheap stepping stone, but I wouldn't try to pass it off as a better motor in any way. A 60 is not a vehicle to be ripping around at 6k. You want the torque and grunt of a 6.0. Same size motor. Price is about the only good reason to do a 4.8.

295 ft lbs vs 370 is not a small difference...

I agree...but I don't think I implied the 4.8 was better.

I bought it for price, and with the idea of "everything in moderation". Moderation in the sense that I'll have 100ft/lbs more than stock...where I could have had 175ft/lbs more than stock. Twice the HP and 50% more TQ is plenty in an FJ60. You could argue "more is always better"...but that's not really the case, from a practical or reliability standpoint.

I hope to have this whole thing in and running (along with a few fancy parts) for less than the cost of a 150k mile LQ4/LQ9 (around $3,000).

- Brian

 

[cruiser enthuiser]

You're off to a great start and have obviously done your homework.

One of my biggest stumbling blocks during my conversion was trying to rework the harness myself. Like you I figured with the aid of online resources like LT1swaps.com (who did a great job of flashing my ECM btw) I could manage it. After on going frustrations with my own efforts I ultimately bought a Howell harness. The quality of the harness was top notch and essiantially a plug and play solution. I wish I had done this right from the beginning and saved myself loads of time and aggravation. if you're really experienced with this type of thing and have the time to spare you can save several hundred bucks but otherwise I wouldn't bother.

Good luck with it and keep us posted on your progress.

Cheers!

-Ed

 

[Elbert]

stand alone engine harness makes a lot of sense in many ways. but if you want to go at the GM harness thats a reasonable approach...i used standalone engine harness on my 5.7.

 

[orion]

You're off to a great start and have obviously done your homework.

One of my biggest stumbling blocks during my conversion was trying to rework the harness myself. Like you I figured with the aid of online resources like LT1swaps.com (who did a great job of flashing my ECM btw) I could manage it. After on going frustrations with my own efforts I ultimately bought a Howell harness. The quality of the harness was top notch and essiantially a plug and play solution. I wish I had done this right from the beginning and saved myself loads of time and aggravation. if you're really experienced with this type of thing and have the time to spare you can save several hundred bucks but otherwise I wouldn't bother.

Good luck with it and keep us posted on your progress.

Cheers!

-Ed

Good to hear you're happy with the PCM work LT1swap did. Thanks.

stand alone engine harness makes a lot of sense in many ways. but if you want to go at the GM harness thats a reasonable approach...i used standalone engine harness on my 5.7.

I looked at a few different conversion harnesses...and if there was a $350-400 option, I'd be all over it.

But I'll take a stab at modifying this stock harness before plunking down $600-750.

I'll definitely post my honest review of "was it worth it" once I get it done!

...

Parts coming in every day - It's like Christmas around here!

Radiator hose adapter (1.5" to 1.5") 1.25" to 1.25" (had to swap out for the smaller 32mm inline adapter, as the 38mm one was too large for my factory GM upper radiator hose) with a 1/8 NPT port for a hose barb. This is for the steam vent from the head(s).

The other little piece is a block off plate for the EVAP purge solenoid that was removed from the intake manifold. Similar piece for the EGR hole is coming as well.

I'll post updates as I progress!

- Brian

 

[orion]

Got a proper start on the wiring last night..although all I did was de-pin the PCM connectors (beginning of making this into a 'standalone harness'...doesn't seem too bad.

I actually enjoyed it!

Anyway, with around 40 wires removed, here's what we have as the start of my harness modifcation:

The wires to be completely removed from the harness are twisted together at the top of the pic (as I mentioned, around 40 wires total). The simplified PCM plugs will get a little more work, and I'll route all the wires of the blue plug out just one side.

The other 4 wires (small bunch off to the lower right) will split off to the fusebox or dash...for triggering relays (fuel pump + e-fan), or feeding the tach, MIL light, etc...

Will post more as time goes on, and I make more progress.

- Brian

 

[gregnash]

See that right there is one of the reasons that I would probably end up going with a company like Pacific Fab or BD Turnkey because they are that.... turnkey and work to my specifications. I am a little too anal retentive to be able to keep my sanity trying to root through that rats nest of cables.

 

[cruiser enthuiser]

I found that Novak had some handy and well made misc. parts for theses conversions even if they are a bunch of jeep guys. EGR block off plates, vacuum brake booster adapters, etc.

Check out this page if you haven't already: Gen III+ Engine Parts for Engine Conversions

 

[orion]

^^^ I do like that brake booster adapter.

However, I picked up "ICT Billet" pieces for the EGR and EVAP stuff I removed...about 1/2 the price of Novak.

Thanks for the link, though...cool to see all the little pieces made for these swaps!

- Brian

 

[ufg8r]

and the limited TQ might help ward off breakage if I get an angry right foot.

Nah, probably not. But, I'm not sure I've seen you use the angry foot before though...maybe the mildly annoyed foot, or the the slightly perturbed foot....but never the angry foot. Thought I might see it when your carb was giving you grief, but you kept your cool (mostly )

Great to see this coming together!