'Um.. is this the right room?' Nuub Troopy owner enters, crickets and stares ensue ;) (1 Viewer)

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That’s a little ambiguous and somewhat misleading. Makes it sound as if all you’d need to do is have a simple emissions test. Far from it.

If a foreign market motor is exactly the same configuration as its USA market, EPA certified equivalent, then of course it could pass certification. However, in the case where there is no USA market, EPA certified version (e.g. 1HZ), the certification process is not trivial. Manufacturers don’t do it for all their motors—it’s completely beyond the practical resources of a private citizen. I’m at work at the moment, but have the references on my computer at home. I’ll try to get that posted here tonight.
 
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Further down in the Diesel Toys FAQ:

Diesel Toys DOES NOT imply legality and offers conversion services “FOR OFF-ROAD USE ONLY”.

Yeah I forgot to add that part. lol It is like them saying we will take your $30,000 but if you can't get it registered then you are SOL.
 
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OK...easiest place to reference the relevant EPA regulations regarding motor swaps involving foreign-market motors not covered by EPA certification is in the memo linked below, which comes directly from the EPA itself. See in particular paragraph 7 under "A. Federal Law", which says:

"Another situation recently brought to EPA's attention involves the offering for sale of used foreign-built engines. These engines are often not covered by a certified configuration for any vehicle sold in this country. In such a case, there is no way to install such an engine legally. EPA has recently brought enforcement actions against certain parties who have violated the tampering prohibition by performing illegal engine switches."

Here's the link if you want to read the whole thing:


Regarding the claim that:

"A NON-EPA certified engine simply means that it has not been certified by the EPA and may be subject to emissions testing (where applicable). Now, if it fails the emissions test, then it WILL need to be brought into compliance (sometimes at considerable expense)."

Well, yeah, emissions testing is part of getting a motor certified by the EPA. But it's nowhere near as simple as that. The process is spelled out here, again, in a link directly from the EPA itself:

Certification and Fuel Economy for Light-Duty Passenger Cars and Trucks | US EPA - https://www.epa.gov/ve-certification/certification-and-fuel-economy-light-duty-passenger-cars-and-trucks

Go ahead, dig into some of the requirements. It's a hoot. Not the province of mortal men. You're not going to do it.

Now, all that said, the OP has options if he wants to swap in a diesel.

Option 1: Swap in the diesel, register it outside the Colorado Emissions Program Area so that he doesn't need to have the vehicle inspected by CO authorities and take his chances with the EPA. Not a huge risk. I used to live in Estes Park. Saw a lot of elk, but never saw any Federal Agents snooping around looking for diesel swaps.

Option 2: Just live with the motor he has. Nothing wrong with it. No worries.

Option 3: Swap in the diesel before he has the vehicle inspected by CO authorities and tell them it's the original motor. It might work.

Oh, and this:

Diesel Toys DOES NOT imply legality and offers conversion services “FOR OFF-ROAD USE ONLY”.

is kinda funny. There's no Federal Exemption for "off road use only". It's a myth.

All of this talk of non-US motor swaps being illegal is regarding FEDERAL law, BTW. STATES are all over the place on this. Some don't care at all, some (like the Front Range of CO) are getting kinda picky about it. The reality is, the likeliest place for the Federal Government to notice that you've tampered somehow with the "original unmodified condition" of the imported vehicle is US Customs, when the car is being imported. After that, even though it's still illegal in the eyes of the Feds, no one is likely to be looking for it in most cases.

OK....Having derailed the OP's thread pretty much completely by now, I'm gonna bow out of any more "what's legal, what's not" talk and let the poor guy shower love on his Troopy. :cheers:
 

Will Van

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Aug 18, 2017
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Location
Austin, TX
Right you are! Went out grab some with my phone, and it died from the cold. So had to grab the 'real' camera, find the card reader....

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Beautiful truck! Congratulations!
Welcome to the club. I think Martin forwarded you my quotes for Alucab install and the 1HDT swap. Let me know when you are ready to get 20mpg or double that interior space with a pop-top :D
Is Martin on Mud? What is his handle?
 

Honger

Joel, TLCA #21509
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Peoria, AZ
Since I import and resale gulf spec trucks I've looked into this a lot. I don't sell any trucks that have had an engine swap... and I advise any buyer that an engine swap to anything other than an EPA approved engine COULD end you up in trouble. @gilmorneau is also a wizard at this and has schooled me quite a bit. There are varying degrees of what will, and won't, run you afoul of EPA, DOT, and CBP on an imported car.

Some encouragement for you on the 3F. If it has good compression and does the job it's a great little engine. I'm quite happy with mine. I'm not the fastest up hills, sure, but that wasn't what I bought it for. Also, when I load up the Troopy with camping gear and supplies it doesn't seem to get slower. Plenty of torque in the tractor motor to handle whatever I throw at it.

More pictures of that Troopy playing in CO!!!
 
Joined
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Messages
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Lyons, CO
Welcome to the club. I think Martin forwarded you my quotes for Alucab install and the 1HDT swap. Let me know when you are ready to get 20mpg or double that interior space with a pop-top :D
Heya! He did, then I lost it in the e-madness somewheres :(
 

SNLC

OCD
Supporting Vendor
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Messages
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Boise - Idaho
OK...easiest place to reference the relevant EPA regulations regarding motor swaps involving foreign-market motors not covered by EPA certification is in the memo linked below, which comes directly from the EPA itself. See in particular paragraph 7 under "A. Federal Law", which says:

"Another situation recently brought to EPA's attention involves the offering for sale of used foreign-built engines. These engines are often not covered by a certified configuration for any vehicle sold in this country. In such a case, there is no way to install such an engine legally. EPA has recently brought enforcement actions against certain parties who have violated the tampering prohibition by performing illegal engine switches."

Here's the link if you want to read the whole thing:


Regarding the claim that:

"A NON-EPA certified engine simply means that it has not been certified by the EPA and may be subject to emissions testing (where applicable). Now, if it fails the emissions test, then it WILL need to be brought into compliance (sometimes at considerable expense)."

Well, yeah, emissions testing is part of getting a motor certified by the EPA. But it's nowhere near as simple as that. The process is spelled out here, again, in a link directly from the EPA itself:

Certification and Fuel Economy for Light-Duty Passenger Cars and Trucks | US EPA - https://www.epa.gov/ve-certification/certification-and-fuel-economy-light-duty-passenger-cars-and-trucks

Go ahead, dig into some of the requirements. It's a hoot. Not the province of mortal men. You're not going to do it.

Now, all that said, the OP has options if he wants to swap in a diesel.

Option 1: Swap in the diesel, register it outside the Colorado Emissions Program Area so that he doesn't need to have the vehicle inspected by CO authorities and take his chances with the EPA. Not a huge risk. I used to live in Estes Park. Saw a lot of elk, but never saw any Federal Agents snooping around looking for diesel swaps.

Option 2: Just live with the motor he has. Nothing wrong with it. No worries.

Option 3: Swap in the diesel before he has the vehicle inspected by CO authorities and tell them it's the original motor. It might work.

Oh, and this:



is kinda funny. There's no Federal Exemption for "off road use only". It's a myth.

All of this talk of non-US motor swaps being illegal is regarding FEDERAL law, BTW. STATES are all over the place on this. Some don't care at all, some (like the Front Range of CO) are getting kinda picky about it. The reality is, the likeliest place for the Federal Government to notice that you've tampered somehow with the "original unmodified condition" of the imported vehicle is US Customs, when the car is being imported. After that, even though it's still illegal in the eyes of the Feds, no one is likely to be looking for it in most cases.

OK....Having derailed the OP's thread pretty much completely by now, I'm gonna bow out of any more "what's legal, what's not" talk and let the poor guy shower love on his Troopy. :cheers:

Bro, you sold a HDJ80 as a donor-parts truck.

🤷🏼‍♂️

Cheers
 

TonyP

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If an exact model/config engine is 21 years old or older you can import the engine (engine itself) under "Ancient Engine" EPA exemption. This includes FTEs.
 
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Messages
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Lyons, CO
Y'all rock! Thanks for the discussion and onion-peeling of the whole diesel swaperino adventure fronm @gilmorneau. And I love digging into Federal regulations!
Really, I just had a discussion about Drone regs the other day on Farcebook, joking..not joking!

I just did a 1750Km loop shakedown cruise from the CO front range to Utah and back in the Troop with all the crap I usually take touring in the little 1stGen Taco. What makes my Taco level out (1.5"drop in rear) doesn't even measure a bit of a load on the troop! And you're right @Honger, the 3F is a stalwart motor, challenged it seems only by altitude, and WYO headwinds (Holey Dooley! 45-70mph gusts!?!) When at the altitude it was tuned for it pulls strong and is happy to give a roar in 3rd up the hills. As long as I've got fuel for it to guzzle, roll it will!
Recon to Canyons area of Dinasaur Natnl Monument. We'll be back to camp in Echo Park this spring if the road is open!

IMG_3871.jpg
 

SNLC

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Messages
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Boise - Idaho
OK...easiest place to reference the relevant EPA regulations regarding motor swaps involving foreign-market motors not covered by EPA certification is in the memo linked below, which comes directly from the EPA itself. See in particular paragraph 7 under "A. Federal Law", which says:

"Another situation recently brought to EPA's attention involves the offering for sale of used foreign-built engines. These engines are often not covered by a certified configuration for any vehicle sold in this country. In such a case, there is no way to install such an engine legally. EPA has recently brought enforcement actions against certain parties who have violated the tampering prohibition by performing illegal engine switches."

Here's the link if you want to read the whole thing:


Regarding the claim that:

"A NON-EPA certified engine simply means that it has not been certified by the EPA and may be subject to emissions testing (where applicable). Now, if it fails the emissions test, then it WILL need to be brought into compliance (sometimes at considerable expense)."

Well, yeah, emissions testing is part of getting a motor certified by the EPA. But it's nowhere near as simple as that. The process is spelled out here, again, in a link directly from the EPA itself:

Certification and Fuel Economy for Light-Duty Passenger Cars and Trucks | US EPA - https://www.epa.gov/ve-certification/certification-and-fuel-economy-light-duty-passenger-cars-and-trucks

Go ahead, dig into some of the requirements. It's a hoot. Not the province of mortal men. You're not going to do it.

Now, all that said, the OP has options if he wants to swap in a diesel.

Option 1: Swap in the diesel, register it outside the Colorado Emissions Program Area so that he doesn't need to have the vehicle inspected by CO authorities and take his chances with the EPA. Not a huge risk. I used to live in Estes Park. Saw a lot of elk, but never saw any Federal Agents snooping around looking for diesel swaps.

Option 2: Just live with the motor he has. Nothing wrong with it. No worries.

Option 3: Swap in the diesel before he has the vehicle inspected by CO authorities and tell them it's the original motor. It might work.

Oh, and this:



is kinda funny. There's no Federal Exemption for "off road use only". It's a myth.

All of this talk of non-US motor swaps being illegal is regarding FEDERAL law, BTW. STATES are all over the place on this. Some don't care at all, some (like the Front Range of CO) are getting kinda picky about it. The reality is, the likeliest place for the Federal Government to notice that you've tampered somehow with the "original unmodified condition" of the imported vehicle is US Customs, when the car is being imported. After that, even though it's still illegal in the eyes of the Feds, no one is likely to be looking for it in most cases.

OK....Having derailed the OP's thread pretty much completely by now, I'm gonna bow out of any more "what's legal, what's not" talk and let the poor guy shower love on his Troopy. :cheers:

Man, I am not looking to start anything. You are always quoting the “law” on the forum though. I know what your profession is so you can correct me if I am wrong. Does the law not say that an imported vehicle must also be clean and free of debris? It did last time I checked and is why I have had all six trucks I have imported cleaned prior to import.

75444586-552C-4B39-8BE2-E7294189F752.jpeg


That is from taking the side steps off the HDJ80 you imported and then flipped. Not only is this one of the filthiest Cruisers I have ever seen it must have well over 300lbs of mud in, on and under it. Is the law not about keeping invasive species out of our country? I don’t even know how this got through being so bad, CBP agents at the port of import must not of cared. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Cheers
 
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Man, I am not looking to start anything. You are always quoting the “law” on the forum though. I know what your profession is so you can correct me if I am wrong. Does the law not say that an imported vehicle must also be clean and free of debris? It did last time I checked and is why I have had all six trucks I have imported cleaned prior to import.

View attachment 2547069

That is from taking the side steps off the HDJ80 you imported and then flipped. Not only is this one of the filthiest Cruisers I have ever seen it must have well over 300lbs of mud in, on and under it. Is the law not about keeping invasive species out of our country? I don’t even know how this got through being so bad, CBP agents at the port of import must not of cared. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Cheers
Technically, this does feel like a bit of the ol' dry mudslinging tho.. just sayin'! :rimshot:
 

SNLC

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Boise - Idaho
Well, you would not happy in the slightest if you paid $15+k for this Cruiser.

Engine is wasted too.

Cheers
 
Joined
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Messages
45
Location
Lyons, CO
Well, you would not happy in the slightest if you paid $15+k for this Cruiser.

Engine is wasted too.

Cheers
Oooof Da... that makes my gut hurt. Now I'm goanna look behind the side steps and in the frame rails.
I took a look at your shop's site. Legit sht. That 2004 Tacoma DC is awesome (I have a '04 Xtra cab, now my DD)

Best
 
Joined
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Messages
45
Location
Lyons, CO
It’s a violation of the tampering provision of the Clean Air Act.
Over 25 year old imports have an exemption from EPA regs , but only if they’re in “original unmodified condition “. Motor swap=modification. Modification = no more exemption. Without the exemption, you’d need to meet EPA regs. You won’t.

Seizure is a whole other ballgame. Feds could, but unlikely they would. Not a big enough prize for them to bother.

Re: Denver emissions, OP only needs to be about halfway to Estes Park to not need to bother with Front Range emissions. Check the program area map online.

I need to buy land in Estes! Honestly, I have thought about trying to get a super cheap cabin somewhere for this. But I’ve heard they look pretty hard at you here, for that also.
HA! well I'm livin' the dream just north of the Larimer County line. So, if any of you Boulder county lads want to reggie your rigs here, let me know!
Just leave me the keys, I'll take good care of them ;)
 
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One last thing on the swap debate tho.. prompted by @SNLC 's predicament above (with apologies): What about engine replacement due to failure? Surely EPA doesn't expect one to re-source an exact original match motor to replace? (and once he askes he realizes that the EPA doesn't like to be called Surely...)
 

SNLC

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Boise - Idaho
Oooof Da... that makes my gut hurt. Now I'm goanna look behind the side steps and in the frame rails.
I took a look at your shop's site. Legit sht. That 2004 Tacoma DC is awesome (I have a '04 Xtra cab, now my DD)

Best

I am not going to post anymore in your thread about it. I have taken it to the original for sale thread of the Cruiser in question.

I have nothing against anyone here but I don’t like to see Cruiserheads taken.

Thanks! I drove that DC to Panama and back twice. It was a sweet truck I just didn’t like the low seating position and not enough cab height to raise that. On those long drives from Panama it would hurt my body and cause me fatigue so I had to sell it and move on.

Cheers
 
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Colorado
Technically, this does feel like a bit of the ol' dry mudslinging tho.. just sayin'!
Kinda felt that way to me, too.
I am not going to post anymore in your thread about it. I have taken it to the original for sale thread of the Cruiser in question.
Me, too. See you there.
I know what your profession is
Um...I doubt it, but irrelevant anyway.

@RamseyTroopy , sorry to pollute your thread. Cool Troopy!
 

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