<Tinkerer> Locker Deep Dive

[ga12r1]

This whole locker issue is confusing to me. Would lockers from an 80 fit in a 200? Additionally, when I bought my 2004 Taco, I planned on putting ARB in the front and rear. Tacoma World has scared me away from ARB as a result, I don't know which locker is best for dependability. I wonder if the fear of leaks with ARB is justified?

No. The 80 9.5 is 30 spline. Also the axle has to have longer spline so the locker can actually engage.

100 series and 200 have same spline count so generally the open rear thirds are interchangeable, I'm not sure about 98-99 locking rears though. I would think they could be made to fit but I dont know where you would get a passenger side rear axle that would work.

80 series lockers have a nasty habit of breaking the rear axle at the splined section of the locker though. Happens ALL THE TIME here on the east coast. Im running RCV axles on my 80 to hopefully prevent this, but again, there is no option for stronger rear axles for the 200.

Theres really not a perfect option for a selectable locker for the 200, but for me the ARB is the lesser of several evils.

 

[TeCKis300]

As with many things, there is tradeoffs.. This video does a great job highlighting some concerns and in particular, he explored the strength of engagement dog teeth and holding power at full lockup.

Another aspect not discussed is the transition to lockup. The transition between open and lockup before the dogs engage at full depth/strength can be a vulnerable moment. The direct acting lockers like newer OEM, ARB, and direct acting Eatons are better in this regard. Their lockup transition is much shorter, almost instantaneous. The Eaton ramp system and 80-series OEM, although possibly stronger at full engagement, will experience a period of partial dog engagement at which point can be vulnerable. Reading between the lines, the Eaton ramp lockup once engaged, is likely stronger than the direct acting solutions. Arb being the strongest lockup and most robust as the air based system applies more force and leaves plenty of structure for dogs. Whereas the magnets based solutions consume too much structural space making for potentially weaker dogs overall.

For hardcore and race use, the proven time tested design is hands down the Arb.

Robust is not the same as reliable. Air lockers are inherently more complex with install, subsystem dependency (power, relays, compressor, air plumbing, vent, etc.). Too many easily found examples where the locker failed to work when needed. Doesn't matter how robust it is if it can't be counted on to deliver lockup when needed?

My priority is reliability first and foremost. I also use my vehicle with mechanical sympathy. The Harrop/Eaton rear locker install was straightforward, one and done, and has delivered lockup every time I've needed it. Can't say the backing up and disengaging for me has made any practical difference. The reality when I need to backup is that I'm pivoting/repositioning, and perhaps lockup disengagement is helpful to steer a bit before lining up to re-engage?

Being aware of the transition vulnerability, I lock ahead of obstacles. If I'm backing up to re-position, understanding there's a moment necessary for re-lockup, I won't hammer down the throttle immediately as it's transitioning back to lockup. Sometime limited space and the need for a "moab bump" require that but I'll throttle into it rather than hammer down.

I'm about to order a front locker. I think what makes sense for me personally is another Eaton locker there.

 

[turbo8]

As with many things, there is tradeoffs.. This video does a great job highlighting some concerns and in particular, he explored the strength of engagement dog teeth and holding power at full lockup.

Another aspect not discussed is the transition to lockup. The transition between open and lockup before the dogs engage at full depth/strength can be a vulnerable moment. The direct acting lockers like newer OEM, ARB, and direct acting Eatons are better in this regard. Their lockup transition is much shorter, almost instantaneous. The Eaton ramp system and 80-series OEM, although possibly stronger at full engagement, will experience a period of partial dog engagement at which point can be vulnerable. Reading between the lines, the Eaton ramp lockup once engaged, is likely stronger than the direct acting solutions. Arb being the strongest lockup and most robust as the air based system applies more force and leaves plenty of structure for dogs. Whereas the magnets based solutions consume too much structural space making for potentially weaker dogs overall.

For hardcore and race use, the proven time tested design is hands down the Arb.

Robust is not the same as reliable. Air lockers are inherently more complex with install, subsystem dependency (power, relays, compressor, air plumbing, vent, etc.). Too many easily found examples where the locker failed to work when needed. Doesn't matter how robust it is if it can't be counted on to deliver lockup when needed?

My priority is reliability first and foremost. I also use my vehicle with mechanical sympathy. The Harrop/Eaton rear locker install was straightforward, one and done, and has delivered lockup every time I've needed it. Can't say the backing up and disengaging for me has made any practical difference. The reality when I need to backup is that I'm pivoting/repositioning, and perhaps lockup disengagement is helpful to steer a bit before lining up to re-engage?

Being aware of the transition vulnerability, I lock ahead of obstacles. If I'm backing up to re-position, understanding there's a moment necessary for re-lockup, I won't hammer down the throttle immediately as it's transitioning back to lockup. Sometime limited space and the need for a "moab bump" require that but I'll throttle into it rather than hammer down.

I'm about to order a front locker. I think what makes sense for me personally is another Eaton locker there.

Agreed on all points. Eatons for me., love the locked/unlocked speed compared to OEM elockers.

Not relivent to 200 series, but a thing I don't like about factory lockers from Toyota is the necessity to be in low range, which is good for inexperienced drivers, but a hurdle for experienced off-roaders.

 

[Boston Mangler]

I won't hammer down the throttle immediately

Lame

 

[ga12r1]

Robust is not the same as reliable. Air lockers are inherently more complex with install, subsystem dependency (power, relays, compressor, air plumbing, vent, etc.). Too many easily found examples where the locker failed to work when needed. Doesn't matter how robust it is if it can't be counted on to deliver lockup when needed?

Yeah, but im ok with losing my locker on the trail if I can fix it fairly easy later. Finishing a trail or run open is not the ended of the world. I can fix a seal, air line, or compressor fairly cheap and easy. With Eaton I cannot fix a broken ramp plate or crosspin cheaply or easily. Actually I cant' even get the parts.

Which leads me to another thing I don't like about the eaton, parts avaibilty, as in basically there aren't any for our application.

ARB will get you a replacement for every single part in their locker.

 

[TeCKis300]

Yeah, but im ok with losing my locker on the trail if I can fix it fairly easy later. Finishing a trail or run open is not the ended of the world. I can fix a seal, air line, or compressor fairly cheap and easy. With Eaton I cannot fix a broken ramp plate or crosspin cheaply or easily. Actually I cant' even get the parts.

Which leads me to another thing I don't like about the eaton, parts avaibilty, as in basically there aren't any for our application.

ARB will get you a replacement for every single part in their locker.

Good points and IMO, you're absolutely making the right call with the ARB for your use case.

I'm not as hardcore of a wheeler. Just as I've picked things like the Slee Stepsliders vs bombproof Budbuilts. Or LX versus something like a Jeep (which is more robust but not as reliable).

I want a fully capable, reliable, and balanced rig and I think the Eaton provides that for my Overlander/Rocklander style of use.

 

[TomEf]

Seems like most of the hangup with Eaton is the unlocking on F/R direction change, but is that really consequential for most users? I guess so given all the feedback. I can see in an extreme technical crawling situation maybe, but if you're shifting the transmission from forward to reverse, you would've already lost momentum and you'd be on the brakes holding position. It also only takes what looks like maybe 15 degrees of one wheel rotation to engage again, which certainly in my off-roading doesn't seem like a dealbreaker.

This is a good example of wet east coast wheeling versus dry west-ish wheeling. Momentum and wheelspeed are important when you're dealing with mud, wet roots, wet rocks, loamy dirt, clay, etc. Traction and crawling tend to be the focus out this way, especially on something as grippy as Moab slickrock. Can't tell you the number of times I've gotten into an obstacle unlocked and couldn't climb it, slapped a locker (or both) in, and idled right up it.

 

[Godwin]

Agreed on all points. Eatons for me., love the locked/unlocked speed compared to OEM elockers.

Not relivent to 200 series, but a thing I don't like about factory lockers from Toyota is the necessity to be in low range, which is good for inexperienced drivers, but a hurdle for experienced off-roaders.

This can be worked around if you don't use the OEM wiring. I just installed a set of OEM locked 80 axles in my '97 and while I had the stock locker wiring harness, ECU, and knob available I decided to wire each locker independently using a simple wiring diagram, relays, and a pair of Carling switches. With this this each locker can be engaged independent of the other and in high or low range.

 

[Boston Mangler]

This can be worked around if you don't use the OEM wiring. I just installed a set of OEM locked 80 axles in my '97 and while I had the stock locker wiring harness, ECU, and knob available I decided to wire each locker independently using a simple wiring diagram, relays, and a pair of Carling switches. With this this each locker can be engaged independent of the other and in high or low range.

This is the way

 

[rlynch356]

Question, do the current 200 series ARB lockers use a rotational seal? Well versed on the downsides of that design.