Techstream Error (1 Viewer)

[Skruf]

Hi all

Really needing some help.

I'm trying to get Techstream going for my LX which has the AHC stuck in low after I played around with adjusting the ride height.

It seems like everything is working but I'm getting this error message. I've googled this and theres hardly any hits so trust my luck to get this.

Any help appreciated.

Also - There was a small metal tab inserted in one of the terminals of the ECU plug. Its clearly a factory addition. I had to pull it out to plug in the adapter cable.
Is this something to do with it?

Cheers

 

[Skruf]

Still broken

 

[IndroCruise]

Still broken

Maaate,

I feel your pain!

I could not get Techstream to cooperate on a 2006 LC100 Sahara with AHC/TEMS and 1HD-FTE 4.2 litre turbodiesel.

The reason may have been the Toyota proprietary M-OBD system which prevailed on Toyota diesels, at least in the Australian market, until the LC200 and the 1VD-FTV turbodiesel came along circa 2007. Or given that others have succeeded on very similar vehicles, the reason may have been my I.T. incompetence or impatience – probably both!!

If I understand correctly, you have 1998 Lexus LX470 and 2UZ-FE V8 petrol (gasoline) engine? If so, my understanding is that it would be equipped with OBD2 compliance, much the same as in the US market -- so your issues may be quite different to mine.

Probably you have found this thread -- which has helped many people but also there are many stories of frustration:

How-To: TechStream In 5 Minutes - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/how-to-techstream-in-5-minutes.1034923/#post-11416736

Defeated, I came across and have continued to use this version of ELM327 which, after some juggling to choose the correct settings, I could use on a plug-and-play basis using Bluetooth, no cables, so very convenient when next to, or under the vehicle, especially when adjusting Height Control Sensors (of course with engine OFF, ignition ON, for Height Sensor work, with supports positioned under chassis rails to ensure that vehicle body cannot come into contact with human body, in case of any inadvertent action by the AHC system).

Specifically, this interface plugged into DLC3 ….

Server Busy - https://www.amazon.com.au/Bluetooth-Scanner-Automotive-Diagnostic-Android/dp/B09T38VRN7

Used with this app ….

ELMScan Toyota – Apps on Google Play - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.obd2.elmscantoyota&hl=en_AU&gl=US

…. and with the notes attached below which I drew up to remind me how to connect.

The same interface also is also reported IH8MUD -- but with a different app arrangement:

BT Scanner: OBDLink MX + ELMScan Toyota or OBDLink MX + - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/bt-scanner-obdlink-mx-elmscan-toyota-or-obdlink-mx.1151170/ -- read the whole thread.

This may or may not work for you -- but a trial requires an outlay of only about AUD20.

This arrangement certainly reads all of the AHC data to my satisfaction (including pressures and Height Sensor readings). It tells me when there are DTC’s but documentation is poor and I am not sure how to get it to identify which DTC.

I do NOT suggest that this arrangement is better than Techstream -- it is not -- and suggest efforts to get Techstream working should continue. This arrangement may get you out of trouble as a stop-gap measure.

Moving on to the problem of a vehicle stuck at LO height ….

As you may have seen on this forum, there can be a number of causes. High on the list of suspicions are the Height Control Sensors and the Height Control Sensor circuits which are common to LX470 and LC100 (where AHC is fitted).

This may not be your problem but given the age and distance travelled by your vehicle, may I suggest that checking out (meaning removal and internal inspection and testing) the Height Control Sensors and circuits would be very worthwhile. This does not require Techstream or the alternative scanner -- and anyway, the absence of a Height Control Sensor DTC does not give assurance of a healthy Sensor or circuit. The procedure does require a multimeter and 3 x 1.5volt AA batteries connected in series and used per Factory Service Manual -- extract attached below.

I have written up Height Control Sensor issues a few times, most recently in the last few days -- you may wish to have a look at Post #365 and onwards in this thread:

The ABCs of AHC - How to Measure, Flush, and Adjust all in one place - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/the-abcs-of-ahc-how-to-measure-flush-and-adjust-all-in-one-place.1211999/page-19#post-14881353

 

[Skruf]

Thanks for your reply mate and all the great info
I'll have a read through and take another crack tomorrow

 

[Skruf]

Maaate,

I feel your pain!

I could not get Techstream to cooperate on a 2006 LC100 Sahara with AHC/TEMS and 1HD-FTE 4.2 litre turbodiesel.

The reason may have been the Toyota proprietary M-OBD system which prevailed on Toyota diesels, at least in the Australian market, until the LC200 and the 1VD-FTV turbodiesel came along circa 2007. Or given that others have succeeded on very similar vehicles, the reason may have been my I.T. incompetence or impatience – probably both!!

If I understand correctly, you have 1998 Lexus LX470 and 2UZ-FE V8 petrol (gasoline) engine? If so, my understanding is that it would be equipped with OBD2 compliance, much the same as in the US market -- so your issues may be quite different to mine.

Probably you have found this thread -- which has helped many people but also there are many stories of frustration:

How-To: TechStream In 5 Minutes - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/how-to-techstream-in-5-minutes.1034923/#post-11416736

Defeated, I came across and have continued to use this version of ELM327 which, after some juggling to choose the correct settings, I could use on a plug-and-play basis using Bluetooth, no cables, so very convenient when next to, or under the vehicle, especially when adjusting Height Control Sensors (of course with engine OFF, ignition ON, for Height Sensor work, with supports positioned under chassis rails to ensure that vehicle body cannot come into contact with human body, in case of any inadvertent action by the AHC system).

Specifically, this interface plugged into DLC3 ….

Server Busy - https://www.amazon.com.au/Bluetooth-Scanner-Automotive-Diagnostic-Android/dp/B09T38VRN7

Used with this app ….

ELMScan Toyota – Apps on Google Play - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.obd2.elmscantoyota&hl=en_AU&gl=US

…. and with the notes attached below which I drew up to remind me how to connect.

The same interface also is also reported IH8MUD -- but with a different app arrangement:

BT Scanner: OBDLink MX + ELMScan Toyota or OBDLink MX + - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/bt-scanner-obdlink-mx-elmscan-toyota-or-obdlink-mx.1151170/ -- read the whole thread.

This may or may not work for you -- but a trial requires an outlay of only about AUD20.

This arrangement certainly reads all of the AHC data to my satisfaction (including pressures and Height Sensor readings). It tells me when there are DTC’s but documentation is poor and I am not sure how to get it to identify which DTC.

I do NOT suggest that this arrangement is better than Techstream -- it is not -- and suggest efforts to get Techstream working should continue. This arrangement may get you out of trouble as a stop-gap measure.

Moving on to the problem of a vehicle stuck at LO height ….

As you may have seen on this forum, there can be a number of causes. High on the list of suspicions are the Height Control Sensors and the Height Control Sensor circuits which are common to LX470 and LC100 (where AHC is fitted).

This may not be your problem but given the age and distance travelled by your vehicle, may I suggest that checking out (meaning removal and internal inspection and testing) the Height Control Sensors and circuits would be very worthwhile. This does not require Techstream or the alternative scanner -- and anyway, the absence of a Height Control Sensor DTC does not give assurance of a healthy Sensor or circuit. The procedure does require a multimeter and 3 x 1.5volt AA batteries connected in series and used per Factory Service Manual -- extract attached below.

I have written up Height Control Sensor issues a few times, most recently in the last few days -- you may wish to have a look at Post #365 and onwards in this thread:

The ABCs of AHC - How to Measure, Flush, and Adjust all in one place - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/the-abcs-of-ahc-how-to-measure-flush-and-adjust-all-in-one-place.1211999/page-19#post-14881353

Thanks Again for the info. I'll buy the bluetooth interface and give that a shot.
I'm also got an antient macbook in a cupboard so I'll bring that out and try it with that.

The AHC issue doesn't feel like its a code. When I start the car its trying to work. I can hear the compressor running but its like theres no fluid in it. It just keeps trying for 5 minutes then defaults to low OR it comes up AHC OFF.

Its like air in in the system but theres no way air could have suddenly got in the system.

 

[IndroCruise]

Thanks Again for the info. I'll buy the bluetooth interface and give that a shot.
I'm also got an antient macbook in a cupboard so I'll bring that out and try it with that.

The AHC issue doesn't feel like its a code. When I start the car its trying to work. I can hear the compressor running but its like theres no fluid in it. It just keeps trying for 5 minutes then defaults to low OR it comes up AHC OFF.

Its like air in in the system but theres no way air could have suddenly got in the system.

Just to say the arrangements I suggested are of Android ilk, so I am not sure how they will go on a macbook. They work fine on my ancient Samsung tablet which I keep for the purpose.

On the other thread, a question was mentioned about the number of live terminals inside DLC3. This may vary across models and years. At Page 1 on the first attachment on my previous post (#3 in this thread), you will see a picture of DLC3 in my vehicle -- with many vacant slots. This is correct for my vehicle -- yours may be different.

Below are links to a bunch of stuff which, if you have not seen before, may be worth perusal. In Australia, AHC and TEMS are common to LX470 and to those few LC100 Sahara late '05 to early '07 vehicles, where fitted -- so the LC100 stuff applies equally. AHC/TEMS was common on LC100 in Non-USA, Non-Australian markets from circa 1998.

I suspect that the symptoms on your vehicle will throw a DTC when you have a working scanner -- C1751 and C1762 come to mind -- may be worth a glance in the DIAGNOSTICS section referenced below, looking at the symptoms described rather than the codes for now.

Also worth bearing in mind that if the membranes in ancient 'globes' are failing (as they all eventually do, usually after say 10 years but may last longer), then nitrogen behind the membranes will steadily diffuse and that space will be taken up with AHC Fluid and the level in the AHC Tank will fall -- possibly allowing air ingress if the Tank empties. The nitrogen escaping through failing membranes in 'globes' also means that the AHC Fluid will be quite gassy, bubbly.

Another possibility for an older vehicle is partial or full blockage of the tiny inlet strainer inside the actual pump sub-assembly (not the strainer at the top of the AHC Tank). The AHC Pump is a small but effective positive displacement gear pump. If the inlet flow of fluid is impeded, then the negative pressure on the inlet side of the pump can result in air being drawn past o-rings or past the seal on the tiny "driveshaft" between the AHC pump and its motor -- and it then pollutes the system.

General Description of the AHC/TEMS systems with explanations and diagrams of components:

LC100 Workshop Manual - https://lc100e.github.io/,
then scroll down through the index panel on the LHS of the opening page:
+ New Car Features
+ CHASSIS
+ Suspension
+ Active Height Control and Skyhook TEMS

Scrolling to “Repair Manual” and “DIAGNOSTICS” reveals relevant diagnostic and test information, etc. For example:

LC100 Workshop Manual - https://lc100e.github.io/
+ Repair Manual
+ DIAGNOSTICS
+ ACTIVE HEIGHT CONTROL SUSPENSION & SKYHOOK TEMS

Scrolling to Electrical Wiring Diagram and visually tracing the circuits helps with understandings:

LC100 Workshop Manual - https://lc100e.github.io/
+ Electrical Wiring Diagram
+ OVERALL ELECTRICAL WIRING DIAGRAM (RHD)
+ Active Height Control Suspension
+ Choose relevant year -- note: there can be some differences in EWD's for LC100 and LX470

Scrolling to “Repair Manual” reveals settings, repair information etc. For example:

LC100 Workshop Manual - https://lc100e.github.io/
+ Repair Manual
+ SUSPENSION AND AXLE
+ ACTIVE HEIGHT CONTROL SYSTEM
+ ON-VEHICLE INSPECTION

 

[Skruf]

Just to say the arrangements I suggested are of Android ilk, so I am not sure how they will go on a macbook. They work fine on my ancient Samsung tablet which I keep for the purpose.

On the other thread, a question was mentioned about the number of live terminals inside DLC3. This may vary across models and years. At Page 1 on the first attachment on my previous post (#3 in this thread), you will see a picture of DLC3 in my vehicle -- with many vacant slots. This is correct for my vehicle -- yours may be different.

Below are links to a bunch of stuff which if you have not seen before, may be worth perusal. In Australia, AHC and TEMS are common to LX470 and to those few LC100 Sahara late '05 to early '07, where fitted -- so the LC100 stuff applies equally.

I suspect that the symptoms on your vehicle will throw a DTC when you have a working scanner -- C1751 and C1762 come to mind -- may be worth a glance in the DIAGNOSTICS section below, looking at the symptoms described rather than the codes for now.

Also worth bearing in mind that if the membranes in ancient 'globes' are failing (as they all eventually do), then nitrogen behind the membranes will steadily departed and that space will be taken up with AHC Fluid and the level in the AHC Tank will fall -- possibly allowing air ingress. The nitrogen escaping through failing membranes in 'globes' also means that the AHC Fluid will be quite gassy, bubbly.

Another possibility for an older vehicle is partial or full blockage of the tiny inlet strainer inside the actual pump sub-assembly (not the strainer in the AHC Tank. The pump is a small but effective positive displacement gear pump. If the inlet flow of fluid is impeded, then the negative pressure on the inlet side of the pump can result in air being drawn past o-rings or past the seal on the tiny "driveshaft" between the AHC pump and its motor and then pollutes the system.

General Description of the AHC/TEMS systems with explanations and diagrams of components:

LC100 Workshop Manual - https://lc100e.github.io/,
then scroll down through the index panel on the LHS of the opening page:
+ New Car Features
+ CHASSIS
+ Suspension
+ Active Height Control and Skyhook TEMS

Scrolling to “Repair Manual” and “DIAGNOSTICS” reveals relevant diagnostic and test information, etc. For example:

LC100 Workshop Manual - https://lc100e.github.io/
+ Repair Manual
+ DIAGNOSTICS
+ ACTIVE HEIGHT CONTROL SUSPENSION & SKYHOOK TEMS

Scrolling to Electrical Wiring Diagram and visually tracing the circuits helps with understandings:

LC100 Workshop Manual - https://lc100e.github.io/
+ Electrical Wiring Diagram
+ OVERALL ELECTRICAL WIRING DIAGRAM (RHD)
+ Active Height Control Suspension
+ Choose relevant year -- note: there can be some differences in EWD's for LC100 and LX470

Scrolling to “Repair Manual” reveals settings, repair information etc. For example:

LC100 Workshop Manual - https://lc100e.github.io/
+ Repair Manual
+ SUSPENSION AND AXLE
+ ACTIVE HEIGHT CONTROL SYSTEM
+ ON-VEHICLE INSPECTION

Thanks

So I think I actually have the software working but there is a communication error. When I do a can bus check I get "There is no system found on the Communication Bus"

I'm wondering if the cable is dodgey? The Airbag light is flashing when I plug it in...it seems like its communicating.


I don't know what else to do

 

[IndroCruise]

Thanks

So I think I actually have the software working but there is a communication error. When I do a can bus check I get "There is no system found on the Communication Bus"

I'm wondering if the cable is dodgey? The Airbag light is flashing when I plug it in...it seems like its communicating.


I don't know what else to do

"I'm wondering if the cable is dodgey?"

Seems like you are using a cable for Techstream rather than the ELM327 interface mentioned in my Post #3 and Post #6. Others may be able to help but I have had similar problems and cannot add anything useful. Sometimes success has been achieved by selecting different settings to those shown in your Post #1. Sometimes disabling virus protection and registry changes are suggested. These things are way above my paygrade -- struggling through the thread "Techstream in 5 minutes" may yield useful suggestions.

 

[Skruf]

"I'm wondering if the cable is dodgey?"

Seems like you are using a cable for Techstream rather than the ELM327 interface mentioned in my Post #3. Others may be able to help but I have had similar problems and cannot add anything useful. Sometimes success has been achieved by selecting different settings to those shown in your Post #1. Sometimes disabling virus protection and registry changes are suggested. These things are way above my paygrade -- struggling through the thread "Techstream in 5 minutes" may yield useful suggestions.

Thanks - I have an ELM327 interface arriving tomorrow. Fingers crossed it will work

 

[Wilsil]

If I understand correctly, you have 1998 Lexus LX470 and 2UZ-FE V8 petrol (gasoline) engine? If so, my understanding is that it would be equipped with OBD2 compliance, much the same as in the US market -- so your issues may be quite different to mine.

Not sure about that.
My 2002 LX470 in Australia has M-ODB, not ODB2.
However I have TIS running on my laptop with virtual XP.

 

[IndroCruise]

Not sure about that.
My 2002 LX470 in Australia has M-ODB, not ODB2.
However I have TIS running on my laptop with virtual XP.

I stand corrected.

 

[Wilsil]

Also - There was a small metal tab inserted in one of the terminals of the ECU plug. Its clearly a factory addition. I had to pull it out to plug in the adapter cable.
Is this something to do with it?

Which port did you connect to, the one attached to your brake pedal I assume?
As there is also one under the bonnet, which is not the correct one.

 

[Skruf]

Which port did you connect to, the one attached to your brake pedal I assume?
As there is also one under the bonnet, which is not the correct one.

FML

 

[Skruf]

So Anyway, techstream is working now.

Can anyone tell me why there is a port under the bonnet if it doesn't work?

 

[Wilsil]

So Anyway, techstream is working now.

Can anyone tell me why there is a port under the bonnet if it doesn't work?

So you didn't use the one under the dash?

The one under the bonnet has another function.
If you have the VSC warning, you can reset it in there by using a special tool (paperclip)

 

[IndroCruise]

So Anyway, techstream is working now.

Can anyone tell me why there is a port under the bonnet if it doesn't work?

@Wilsil has covered it -- but I looked up my files -- and as usual there is "too much information" but here it is anyway!!

On many (?) most (?) all (?) 100 series vehicles (LC100 and LC105 and LX470) there exists

• Diagnostic Link Connector 1 (DLC1) -- socket in the engine bay above RHS front wheel arch with a cap marked "DIAGNOSTIC" and pin-out 'map' on the inside surface of the cap (more about that later),

and,

• Diagnostic Link Connector 3 (DLC 3) -- socket near the brake pedal, pin-out map may appear in Factory Service Manuals (FSM) or search the internet.

DLC2, if there is one on LC100/LX470, remains mystery at least to me. DLC2 does appear on some other Toyota vehicles.

Pin-outs, meaning location and purpose of pins, and programming of the relevant Electronic Control Units (ECU) may vary somewhat across models, years and markets -- because

(i) different countries and jurisdictions have somewhat different requirements as to pollution controls, particularly as to timing of implementation as determined by Governments, and,

(ii) other features vary across models, years and markets as determined by manufacturers and/or customers. Nevertheless, some common standards are used internationally.

The OBD thing ....

This had its origins in pollution control and regulation, initially in Europe and USA and then elsewhere, and involved standards for software, connectivity and wiring, including the style of socket and plug which is called DLC3 on 100 series vehicles, and also is used widely on other vehicles.

Given that the basic environmental requirement was mandatory anyway, other wider diagnostic uses also evolved.

In Australia, requirements are imposed on importers and manufacturers concerning exhaust and evaporative emissions requirements for light vehicles in order to reduce air pollution. Among these, compliance with Australian Design Rule (ADR) 79/01 and 79/02 is required. Details can be found at Vehicle Standard (Australian Design Rule 79/01 — Emission Control for Light Vehicles) 2005 - https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2005L04080. This is the "OBD2 Standard" for Australia. Except for commencement dates, it borrows from similar standards elsewhere in the world.

In practice, the Australian standard is equivalent to the US-based OBD II SAE J-2012 standard, including its technical implementation and the use of a data link connector that complies with the SAE J-1962 standard, which describes the 16-pin data link connector which we know as DLC3.

The various standards that define OBD II technology allow car manufacturers in different markets to adapt the operating parameters of systems such as Engine Management, ABS, Stability Control, Active Suspension and others to match the operation of these systems to particular markets and models, evolving over time.

The different programming of some systems between markets does not represent a departure from the basic definitions of OBD II fault codes, nor does it represent an evolution of how OBD II systems track and report faults.

The dates for compliance with Australian Design Rule (ADR) 79/01 and 79/02 -- see above link and also second attachment below -- are why @Wilsil was correct to remind me that "OBD2" was not a requirement on new vehicles in Australia at the same time as it may have been required in the USA or EU or UK or elsewhere. Some importers/manufacturers may have fitted "OBD2" in advance of Australian legislative requirements because that may have simplified global manufacturing of their systems, wiring looms etc.

So what about Diagnostic Link Connector 1 (DLC1) -- socket in the engine bay above RHS wheel arch with a cap marked "DIAGNOSTIC" and pin-out 'map' on the inside surface of the cap??

This is a proprietary Toyota/Lexus "thing" installed for purpose of diagnosis of multiple systems from the engine bay. @Wilsil does not mean that it does not work, only that it is configured differently for other purposes and it will not work with the commonly available Techstream aftermarket cables, not least because the socket and plug are not compatible. Adapters to the 16-pin "OBD2" plug are easily found on via eBay and elsewhere but I have never tried them.

DLC1 is useful as it is without an adapter for a range of purposes. Of interest in the AHC/TEMS systems, DLC1 can be used directly without Techstream as described in the first attachment below for a range of basic and important tests -- which deserve routine maintenance and diagnostic attention but which often are overlooked!

With the evolution of the mandatory OBD systems, the same tests also can be conducted via DLC3 with slightly different connection instructions as set out in updated Factory Service Manuals (FSM's) -- including the FSM references in Post #6 in this thread.

The advantage of the DLC1 method and facility is simply convenience and visibility in the engine bay compared with scrambling around under the dashboard. This is particularly helpful for the "Height Control Operation Test" alias "Active Test", useful when adjusting 'ride height' and adjusting Height Control Sensors, amongst other things.

The tests in the attachment below specify Toyota/Lexus Special Service Tool SST 09843-18020 -- which is a simple connector wire and can be purchased from a Dealer -- but an unbent paperclip works just as well!

DLC1 on 2006 LC100 Sahara with AHC:

DLC3 on 2006 LC100 Sahara with AHC:

 

[Skruf]

Defeated, I came across and have continued to use this version of ELM327 which, after some juggling to choose the correct settings, I could use on a plug-and-play basis using Bluetooth, no cables, so very convenient when next to, or under the vehicle, especially when adjusting Height Control Sensors (of course with engine OFF, ignition ON, for Height Sensor work, with supports positioned under chassis rails to ensure that vehicle body cannot come into contact with human body, in case of any inadvertent action by the AHC system).

Specifically, this interface plugged into DLC3 ….

Server Busy - https://www.amazon.com.au/Bluetooth-Scanner-Automotive-Diagnostic-Android/dp/B09T38VRN7

Used with this app ….

ELMScan Toyota – Apps on Google Play - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.obd2.elmscantoyota&hl=en_AU&gl=US

That App is now obsolete - won't work with current android

 

[IndroCruise]

That App is now obsolete - won't work with current android

I see on another thread that @Skruf has won with Techstream -- CONGRATULATIONS -- so not much point in persevering with ELM327 devices etc unless the convenience of a Bluetooth arrangement with no cables is wanted/needed -- handy when the tablet/phone is placed on a dashboard holder when driving, or when working under the car.

Just to clarify for others, the device and app described in Post #3 in this thread are old but definitely are not obsolete, work just fine on my two Samsung tablets of various ages, and also work on my Samsung phone running Android 13 which is the current version -- or at least all of that is the case with my 2006 LC100 with AHC.

Obviously, the arrangement did not work for @Skruf on a 1999 LX470, and so something has gone wrong there. There is a lack of documentation with the interface and with the app and my own notes are offered as an attachment to Post #3 -- and these mention the settings that work for me. It may take some experimentation by others to get the right settings for their vehicle, but once done, it is plug-and-play.

 

[Skruf]

I see on another thread that @Skruf has won with Techstream -- CONGRATULATIONS -- so not much point in persevering with ELM327 devices etc unless the convenience of a Bluetooth arrangement with no cables is wanted/needed -- handy when the tablet/phone is placed on a dashboard holder when driving, or when working under the car.

Just to clarify for others, the device and app described in Post #3 in this thread are old but definitely are not obsolete, work just fine on my two Samsung tablets of various ages, and also work on my Samsung phone running Android 13 which is the current version -- or at least all of that is the case with my 2006 LC100 with AHC.

Obviously, the arrangement did not work for @Skruf on a 1999 LX470, and so something has gone wrong there. There is a lack of documentation with the interface and with the app and my own notes are offered as an attachment to Post #3 -- and these mention the settings that work for me. It may take some experimentation by others to get the right settings for their vehicle, but once done, it is plug-and-play.

Thanks for your help man.

I've got the elm327 device here. I haven't really persevered with getting it going (for now I'm trying to get the ahc working again)
If I have success I'll report back