Summer is Coming, Severe Duty Oil

[TeCKis300]

It's oil change time again.

With summer coming and planning for some long towing road trips through hot summer months, I'm stepping up the oil viscosity for my vehicle.

For those that tow heavy or are built especially heavy, this would apply. Nothing is like motoring up a long 7% grade with over 14,000 lbs GCWR. Where the average engine output is easily over 60-80% for extended periods. Hotter peak running temps is no surprise.

Optimal engine oil is a balance. OEMs have to walk the balance between efficiency and protection. A primary variable for viscosity is prevailing operating temperature. Summer and heavy use sways me to use thicker grade oil for more protection.

From the manual:

"An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions"

Efficiency pressures has been driving the average viscosity down in modern cars. For severe duty use, I'm prioritizing protection and will run 0W-30.​

 

[bloc]

Subscribing.

I seem to remember reading on BITOG from a good source that higher viscosity doesn’t necessarily equate to greater protection in modern engines but need to do some more digging to feel comfortable with that logic.

 

[gaijin]

It's oil change time again.

With summer coming and planning for some long towing road trips through hot summer months, I'm stepping up the oil viscosity for my vehicle.

For those that tow heavy or are built especially heavy, this would apply. Nothing is like motoring up a long 7% grade with over 14,000 lbs GCWR. Where the average engine output is easily over 60-80% for extended periods. Hotter peak running temps is no surprise.

Optimal engine oil is a balance. OEMs have to walk the balance between efficiency and protection. A primary variable for viscosity is prevailing operating temperature. Summer and heavy use sways me to use thicker grade oil for more protection.

View attachment 1970907

From the manual:

"An oil with a higher viscosity (one with a higher value) may be better suited if the vehicle is operated at high speeds, or under extreme load conditions"

Efficiency pressures has been driving the average viscosity down in modern cars. For severe duty use, I'm prioritizing protection and will run 0W-30.

I interpret what is written in that ROW OM extract to be qualified much more within the "four corners" of that extract than you have concluded.

I agree with your rationale for going with a higher viscosity oil, but I interpret the manual to mean that if, for example, you are currently using 0W-20, then you should choose one of the other approved oils with a higher viscosity; i.e. 5W-30, 10W-30, 15W-40 or 20W-50 depending on the expected ambient temps during the use period.

Nowhere is it suggested that the 0W-30 you have chosen is acceptable or recommended - it is not even a choice for use under any condition.

HTH

 

[Reckless]

I use 0W-40 in my twin turbo V12, great stuff. If I felt it would improve my LC I'd use it in a heartbeat as I have it lying around in my garage. Amazon sells a 6 pack cheap.

 

[Wolvie]

I use 0W-40 in my twin turbo V12, great stuff. If I felt it would improve my LC I'd use it in a heartbeat as I have it lying around in my garage. Amazon sells a 6 pack cheap.

+1 on 0W-40. My old 80 ran best on it. I'm deferring to Mr T but I reallly want to give 0W-40 a try in my 200....

 

[RET2]

Eternal hope of getting the old pressure gauge to register closer to half way? Just asking but what about altering driving habits a bit when towing or more frequent oil changes?

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Viscosity doesn’t really matter as much as people thing.

Shear resistance is what matters, read up on HTHS.

Also, outside of TGMO and RedLine, modern API SN Plus has reduced calcium for LSPI issues. Which we don’t have to worry about beucase we don’t have small displacement turbo motors. So choosing a fuel economy focused 30 weight is not gaining anything, and until the new tests come out, these fresh off the block SN Plus oil don’t have the new timing chain testing.

Long story short, viscosity is such a small part of the equation.

But... if it meets SN or higher, it’s will be absolutely fine and no one will ever be able to determine a motor lasting longer between oils. So do whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[TeCKis300]

Obviously lots of opinions here. Often times, oils and fluids are like religion. I'm not attempting to indoctrinate anyone into mine. Just sharing what I personally am doing based on my interpretation and analysis. I have plenty of 5W-50 in my garage for my turbo, yet what's good for that car, isn't good for others.

There's many many parameters in oils. It's not by chance that the most important numbers are up front and center - viscosity. Viscosity is highly correlated to temperature. Everything else "flows" from that.

0W-20 is OEM spec'd oil. Which is the right viscosity for the nominal weather and operating conditions expected.

Most know this but the 0W is cold starting viscosity. I'm not appreciably changing this so cold protection and ease of starting will generally be the same.

I'm looking for increased hot temperature viscosity in going from -20 to -30. Said another way, I'm looking to maintain equivalent protecting viscosity at higher than normal operating temperatures.

It's not hard to understand that with hot climates and continuous higher than average power outputs, that oil will be subjected to higher operating temperatures. Oil thins at higher temperatures. That directly impacts its shear resistance and protection abilities for proper lubricant film strength when I need it most.

I'll be the first to say this isn't suggested for the typical user that drives an unladen vehicle.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Obviously lots of opinions here. Often times, oils and fluids are like religion. I'm not attempting to indoctrinate anyone into mine. Just sharing what I personally am doing based on my interpretation and analysis. I have plenty of 5W-50 in my garage for my turbo, yet what's good for that car, isn't good for others.

There's many many parameters in oils. It's not by chance that the most important numbers are up front and center - viscosity. Viscosity is highly correlated to temperature. Everything else "flows" from that.

0W-20 is OEM spec'd oil. Which is the right viscosity for the nominal weather and operating conditions expected.

Most know this but the 0W is cold starting viscosity. I'm not appreciably changing this so cold protection and ease of starting will generally be the same.

I'm looking for increased hot temperature viscosity in going from -20 to -30. Said another way, I'm looking to maintain equivalent protecting viscosity at higher than normal operating temperatures.

It's not hard to understand that with hot climates and continuous higher than average power outputs, that oil will be subjected to higher operating temperatures. Oil thins at higher temperatures. That directly impacts its shear resistance and protection abilities for proper lubricant film strength when I need it most.

I'll be the first to say this isn't suggested for the typical user that drives an unladen vehicle.

So... “fluids are like religion.” Yep, and you’re showing us you are only looking at the viscosity at 100°C cSt.

AFE 0-30 isn’t even ACEA A5/B5, it’s just a A1/B1, which is more prone to shear down to a thick 20 weight. Being a 0-30, and not having a naturally higher V.I., more viscosity improvers has to be added to achieve the viscosity swing, which makes it more prone to sheering at high temps. So while a 30 weight will, on paper, do what you want, the fuel economy focused 0w-30 isn’t the best choice at Walmart. But...

None of this matters!

Anyone can run a conventional 5w-20 SN, tow to max capacity and that motor will last just as long someone running some super expensive group IV/V based oil.

If you really want to protect your motor, have the oil analyzed, and change it before it is depleted of TBN. Simple as that people. Don’t think you need to do this.

But whatever helps you sleep at night, because AFE 0-30 is a pretty good oil. Just like TGMO, or Amsoil, or Pennzoil, or RedLine, or Castrol in 20, 30, 40 weights. As long as the oil meets specs, then it’s NEVER going to be the reason why a motor wears. Not changing oils when they need to be, that is what gets people.

@TeCKis300 your still my boy, I just think you should of gone with EP 5w-30 if you wanted “better” sheer resistance. AFE 0w-30, man... should of looked at a ACEA A5/B5 20 weight. Ugh... what am I saying? This still doesn’t matter. This is why oil threads suck.

 

[Wolvie]

should of looked at a ACEA A5/B5 20 weight.

Slightly off-topic, I was just recently looking for an ACEA A5/B5 for my wife's as that's the spec for her ride. Couldn't find it in retail, seems like a non-US spec. Any tips on where to find it? I'm not too worried about it but it would be nice to match the spec.

 

[Taco2Cruiser]

Slightly off-topic, I was just recently looking for an ACEA A5/B5 for my wife's as that's the spec for her ride. Couldn't find it in retail, seems like a non-US spec. Any tips on where to find it? I'm not too worried about it but it would be nice to match the spec.

0W20 Motor Oil

Recommended for small cars and hybrids, and some trucks like Honda Insight and Civic Hybrids, Toyota Solara, Camry, Rav4 and Tundra 5.7L, Venza

www.redlineoil.com

Now I’m sure not a RedLine fan boy, but I knew this one off the top of my head. Side note, if anyone considers RedLines new “professional line” that meets OEM warranty specs, don’t waste your money. Walmart shelf available is more than adequate (Mobil, Pennzoil, etc) gotta love API requirements. Keeps the knowledgeable free from these companies marketing departments.

ACEA is a European thing, but, if you heavily read into the requirements it takes to meet some of those specs, you’ll see quickly their importance. Now obtaining certifications costs a lot of money, and just because an oil doesn’t say it meets one, doesn’t mean it can’t.

However, if some clearly says, for example, it’s ACEA A1/B1, well then we at least know if can’t.

Back on topic for the 5.7. It’s not at all “hard” on oil. It’s not picky, it doesn’t really care, it’s under taxed, and well cooled. Towing a 8,500 pound trailer up mountains, not a big deal. Have yet to see an oil come back with depleted TBN.

I myself have run 0w-30 and 5w-30 for multiple interactions under same conditions in my 5.7l. Wear numbers remained the same, just a tad rougher of a startup.

Remember people, the 0w of a 20 weight is not at all the same viscosity as the 0w of a 30 weight. Tested at different temperatures. But anything above freezing, is not going to make a difference one bit, so who cares.

 

[Volunteer]

Good info appreciate the good discussion. I'm down here in the South high humidity and high temps our summers will be near 100/100 after a service interval when you drain the OW20 it looks like dirty water. I wanted something a little heavier so I'm currently running the Amsoil signature OW30 to see how that does and will send it off for analysis.

 

[JZelnick]

I will be sticking with 0w-20 for the foreseeable future. Given the cold winters here in NJ, a short commute, and the advancements in the durability of synthetic oils, I think it meets my needs best. I have been running TGMO from the beginning of my ownership, but just picked up four of these:

Shell Rotella 0w-20 5 Quart

Shell Rotella products have a great reputation and at $3/quart after rebate, you can't beat it. This is a new product from Shell, some additional info can be found here. It sounds like it will work well as I daily drive my truck and wheel it hard. I will be doing my 140k service in two weeks and after I put on some miles I will report back.

 

[Volunteer]

Shell Rotella products have a great reputation and at $3/quart after rebate, you can't beat it. This is a new product from Shell, some additional info can be found here. It sounds like it will work well as I daily drive my truck and wheel it hard. I will be doing my 140k service in two weeks and after I put on some miles I will report back.

Nice to see them offering an OW20, I'm a fan of the Rotella oils I ran them in my 40's and 80.

 

[studawg]

Being a 0-30, and not having a naturally higher V.I., more viscosity improvers has to be added to achieve the viscosity swing, which makes it more prone to sheering at high temps. So while a 30 weight will, on paper, do what you want, the fuel economy focused 0w-30 isn’t the best choice at Walmart.

I totally get what the OP is going for and I think the same way but I think this point by Taco is key. It is my understanding that the wider the viscosity range, the more susceptible it is to shear. So if you were running an 0w-20 before, the 0w-30 may offer even LESS protection from shear under extended, extreme loads.

It is for that reason that I like the 5w-20; the narrow range. I had been running 5w-20 Mobil 1 15k mile Extended Protection, am now running 5w-20 20k mile Annual Protection, but probably going back to the EP because I'm just not going to go 20k without changing the oil anyway. Am currently at 13k mile and freaking out.

I will continue to use the Mobil 1 EP 20k mile filter. Change the filter once a year about every 17-18k miles, and change the oil twice a year.

Thats just MY current thinking and logic and what helps me sleep at night!

 

[Markuson]

Not being anything resembling an oil guru...I’m going with advice from the guy with more wheeling experience in under the most varied and harsh conditions, load and crazy-heat than anyone I know.

 

[JZelnick]

Not being anything resembling an oil guru...I’m going with advice from the guy with more wheeling experience in under the most varied and harsh conditions, load and crazy-heat than anyone I know.

Who is this wheeling god you speak of?

 

[Markuson]

Who is this wheeling god you speak of?

Not a god... Just uniquely and deeply experienced at the nuts, bolts, pistons and block level in the bowels of our (and larger) beasts.

Starts with a T… And includes a 2.

 

[bloc]

I totally get what the OP is going for and I think the same way but I think this point by Taco is key. It is my understanding that the wider the viscosity range, the more susceptible it is to shear. So if you were running an 0w-20 before, the 0w-30 may offer even LESS protection from shear under extended, extreme loads.

It is for that reason that I like the 5w-20; the narrow range. I had been running 5w-20 Mobil 1 15k mile Extended Protection, am now running 5w-20 20k mile Annual Protection, but probably going back to the EP because I'm just not going to go 20k without changing the oil anyway. Am currently at 13k mile and freaking out.

I will continue to use the Mobil 1 EP 20k mile filter. Change the filter once a year about every 17-18k miles, and change the oil twice a year.

Thats just MY current thinking and logic and what helps me sleep at night!

To play devils advocate 0w-40 with such a broad index is factory specd in many Mercedes with 13k mile changes. If you consider engineering overhead it’s probably realistically good for much more than that.

But yes in general I agree. I also think Taco’s point about ACEA shouldn’t be skipped over. We aren’t as used to looking at such things on this side of the Atlantic but there is some fantastic engineering going into the oils that can hit those modern standards.

 

[TeCKis300]

As much as we like to offer different points, this has actually been a good and useful discussion. Even if we may disagree, I appreciate the points just the same.

Firstly, I'm not seeking M1 0W-30 for its marketed "advanced fuel economy" benefits. This is relative to typical 5w-30 oil that its marketed towards. Replacing 0W-20 oil with this more than certainly will have the opposite effect.

Oil protects in many ways. Including dynamic viscosity, shear resistance, barrier additives, etc. They rely on different properties of oil for various protective qualities. In the never ending chase for efficiency, OEMs have needed to get creative to reduce viscosity, yet keep equal levels of protection.

I maintain that viscosity, is still the critical fluid property and primary method of protection. Because higher heat loads always results in thinner viscosity and reduced protection.

Some of the interpretations above in regards to higher grade base oils, higher VIs, IMO is flawed. One has to remember 0w-20 is fundamentally thinner oil. It has to continue to offer protection - DESPITE being thinner oil. Therefore needs a higher VI rating to maintain HTHS performance for example. It also has to have generally higher threshold qualities to meet more stringent certifications, again to make-up for the fact that it's ultimately a thinner viscosity oil. Some of the points also pertain more to longer service intervals. That's not my goal.

Fact is 0W-30 (versus 0W-20) is going to generally have a higher viscosity @100*C. More importantly, it's also going to have a higher rated HTHS viscosity. That's what I'm looking for.

I could just as easily choose a very high grade of 0W-20 oil for the expanded protection. As I live in a hot climate area (likely to see 110*F+ towing in the summer) for the duration of my next service interval, 0W-30 is my personal choice.