Steering slop from too much front end lift?

[hrwiv]

Hello Brain Trust,
Long time lurker first time posting. I have searched for this but can’t find much exact info.
Roughly a year ago I installed the Ironman 2.5 inch lift with a diff drop. At this same time I had the entire front end rebuilt. Upper’s from Freedom Off Road, new OEM lowers, brand new OEM steering rack, shocks, and extended sway bar end links. The truck has been riding great for the past year but the steering feel has left a lot to be desired. It will wander on center and is pretty vague. I had several alignments done all to no avail. Eventually I assumed it was my intermediate steering shaft so I had that replaced and nothing changed. Driving down the highway it would drift back and forth on center and I would have to catch the rack. Finally I took it to an off-road shop for an alignment and that did a great job aligning. The truck actually drives straight now but the vagueness still persists. My wife and I did a lot of reading and believe that there may not be enough castor currently. However we also tried lowering the front end. Before it was riding at 21.25 inches in the front. From all my research this seems to be an okay height for the front from hub to fender. We lowered it by .25 inches and a good bit of the vagueness went a way. Still not “perfect” per say but much better. My question is am I missing something? Could it be the caster angle causing the vagueness? I have a fully built rig, front and rear bumpers, RTT, fridge slide, and battery set up. She is heavy.

 

[Live to Ski]

Following with interest.

 

[TahoeZ]

What's the height in the rear? Having the front too close to level can create a floating feeling. Also post your alignment specs.

 

[hrwiv]

What's the height in the rear? Having the front too close to level can create a floating feeling. Also post your alignment specs.

The current rear height is 23.25. Rake is 2.25 unloaded and when loaded down for a trip it’s 1.5. That’s after we lowered the front. Before we lowered the front the rear was at 23, the rake was 2 inches unloaded, and 1.25 inches loaded for a trip. This is where I’m confused because I don’t think a 1/4 of an inch should matter that much but it seems to because it is definitely handling better now. My alignment was done by hand, before lowering, so I don’t have measurements on a paper that I can find. I have attached pictures below of the alignment tabs and based on research from Cruiser Patch’s YouTube channel and Slee’s website it seems my alignment tabs may be set wrong, to my untrained eye. This makes me wonder if by lowering I added in more caster and therefore the steering feel got better. Any thoughts on the this theory?
The first photo is current rake, two and three are the alignment tabs (they look similar on both sides), and three is the rake prior to lowering. I plan on calling the alignment shop tomorrow and hopefully getting the truck back in before the end of the week. Thankfully they offer a 6 month alignment warranty so I can go back in as many times as they’ll let me. Hopefully this helps!

 

[89BIGBLUE]

Lower front some more and see if it gets better?
These rigs like a good rake!

 

[TahoeZ]

The Freedom UCAs should have positive caster correction. You want to be at +3 or so. Not a lot to say without seeing an alignment printout, which an alignment shop should provide you.

 

[hrwiv]

The Freedom UCAs should have positive caster correction. You want to be at +3 or so. Not a lot to say without seeing an alignment printout, which an alignment shop should provide you.

So I went to Discount Tire and got them to give me a printed read out. This is where I’m currently at:

From what I’ve read from Post in thread 'Steering Wander/Poor Handling? HELP' from Abuck99 I need to be adjusted to over 3 degrees. Basically getting it as close to 4 degrees as possible is the ideal outcome since I’m at roughly 2 inches of lift and on 34s.
Just confirming is stock ride height for the 2003 19 inches in front? There seems to be numbers all over the place on MUD.
Thanks again for all the help with this!

 

[2001LC]

Perhaps picture angle and driveway, is misleading my eye. But that doesn't look like even 1" of rake.

Be very meticulous on how you measure rake. It very easy to get off the centered of axle when measuring rear axle. I use the chrome bar in tool kit, with magnetic carpenters level attached. Place bar in center of axle hub. Measure down from out lip of fender-well to level. If tire pushes out tape measure, use chrome bar in front also.

I deal with stock set-up more than built. In stock, over 3 degrees gets a nice wonder free tracking down HWY. But when we change lanes, it jumps over to lane abruptly. Very uncomfortable feel. If @abuck says in lift rig, shoot for 4 degrees. Do so!

Make very sure, no play in wheel bearing. Lifted rigs with oversized tires and or extra wheel off-set and or spacer. It's best, to push wheel bearing breakaway preload to the limits of 15lb. Also PM repack, sooner than 30K miles.

 

[hrwiv]

Perhaps picture angle and driveway, is misleading my eye. But that doesn't look like even 1" of rake.

Be very meticulous on how you measure rake. It very easy to get off the centered of axle when measuring rear axle. I use the chrome bar in tool kit, with magnetic carpenters level attached. Place bar in center of axle hub. Measure down from out lip of fender-well to level. If tire pushes out tape measure, use chrome bar in front also.

I deal with stock set-up more than built. In stock, over 3 degrees gets a nice wonder free tracking down HWY. But when we change lanes, it jumps over to lane abruptly. Very uncomfortable feel. If @abuck says in lift rig, shoot for 4 degrees. Do so!

Make very sure, no play in wheel bearing. Lifted rigs with oversized tires and or extra wheel off-set and or spacer. It's best, to push wheel bearing breakaway preload to the limits of 15lb. Also PM repack, sooner than 30K miles.

Thanks for the input, really appreciated! Hand on heart the rake unloaded is 2.25 inches and hasn’t been less than 2 inches in over a year. It is obviously less when loaded up for a long trip but even then it’s never been less than 1.25 inches of rake. I’m pretty meticulous about measuring anytime I think it looks to low much to the dismay of my wife lol. I will admit when I look at the photos too it really makes it look level. I think it’s a trick of the eye and the camera because in the driveway it’s very stink buggy. The last time I measured it, two days ago, my wife helped me to make sure everything was lined up perfectly. Came out exactly to 2.25 inches.

 

[hrwiv]

Thanks for the input, really appreciated! Hand on heart the rake unloaded is 2.25 inches and hasn’t been less than 2 inches in over a year. It is obviously less when loaded up for a long trip but even then it’s never been less than 1.25 inches of rake. I’m pretty meticulous about measuring anytime I think it looks to low much to the dismay of my wife lol. I will admit when I look at the photos too it really makes it look level. I think it’s a trick of the eye and the camera because in the driveway it’s very stink buggy. The last time I measured it, two days ago, my wife helped me to make sure everything was lined up perfectly. Came out exactly to 2.25 inches.

Forgot to mention…wheel bearings are almost brand new done roughly 6 months ago.

 

[TahoeZ]

Your alignment numbers look fine. +3 caster is sufficient; more will give better tracking while driving straight at high speeds but starts to feel weird when turning. Personal preference.

Perhaps you're feeling the additional weight more than anything. Mine certainly felt a lot better when I went to very stiff springs and King shocks. Weight up high also creates an unsettling rolling feeling.

 

[2001LC]

Here's wheel bearing with <2k miles, done wrong.

 

[Exiled]

A couple of suggestions from recent experience:
1. check the steering rack bushings, mine were worn and it had a tangible impact on the steering feel
2. Your truck is lifted and carries weight up top, as does mine. I recently added one of the Eimkeith rear Panhard correction kits (www.eimkeith.com) and it's quite possible the most impactful modification I've done to this truck in the last ten years (I've owned it for 18 years and it's been lifted for 17 years. HUGE difference in the sway and steering feel, especially at speed, especially when loaded. The difference after these two improvements is incredible, if anyone in Austin wants to drive the old girl and test it out, please let me know!