startup knock after 0w-40 change (2 Viewers)

[cary]

[quote author=Imagery link=board=2;threadid=4967;start=msg40101#msg40101 date=1063249263]
This is what my buddy was probably refering to initially..The knocking in the engine after changing oil types. Would it hurt anything to try the M1 0W 40, and if it begins to knock when starting up, then just try another like what Cruiser Dan uses, or even just go back to the 10W 30 or 10W 40??? Also, I had been going to the same place to have my oil changed and I would just supply them with a Toyota filter (not sure what model, but whatever Toyota reccomends), and he told me that there is a "high pressure" filter by Ford that works good with my Cruiser since it is a higher compression engine than ordinary. He showed me the size difference and the Ford filter had a buldge on the bottom rather than a concave such as the Toyota filter. Perhaps I had a smaller size Toyota filter, but it is what the dealer parts department gave to me. When I go back to get my filters, which one should I more specifically ask for? I am just going to start doing my own oil changes at home because I am alot more attentive to what I am doing and I don't over fill/spill oil all over my motor and axle.
[/quote]

Not to be a dick, but your buddy doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. The compression ratio of an engine has nothing to do with the oil filter, oil pressure, or oil weight used. See my other post about changing oil weights, it is not a problem. You buddy sounds dangrous, as in just enough knowledge to screw everything up.

Cary

 

[RavenTai]

Had the rattle. Went from 5w-30 to 10w-30 and it went away. No rattle is good. Parts banging on each other is bad.
Wasn't there a theory that it was a timing chain thing?

Ran into a Toyota 22R user on another board with something interesting to say

Chris142
Member
Member # 1614

posted June 07, 2003 01:48 PM
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There is one drawback to using a larger filter. The timing chain tensioner in the 20r,22r and 22r-e is fed by oil pressure.

The filter on these engines is mounted with the threads lower than the endcap, not much but slightly. This will allow the filter to drain back if the drainback valve doesn't work properly.

When the truck is started the un-tensioned timing chain whips around untill the filter fills with oil and pressurizes the tensioner.

In the meantime the timing chain is flying around in the timing cover, this breaks the runners. Once the runners break the chain wont tighten and will eat through the aluminum cover or allow the chain to jump which bends valves.

The 1FZ-FE although DOHC instead of SOHC has a similar oil pressure actuated tensioner, I wonder if it is the chain making the startup rattle until the tensioner takes out the slop? Bigger empty filter = longer startup rattle, I dotn think this would have been a problem if Toyota had mounted the filter vertical instead of horizontal, There has been at least one chain slipper break on this board that I know of, were there others?


Seams to line up to me, could this be the source of the startup rattle?

I only get it when I disconnect the battery and my first start the idle is very high, it makes a very nasty noise that I do not like at all

 

[concretejungle]

very intersting raven. If i think back to all the different oil filters i've tried i do believe that when i purchased the smaller of the Toyota oil filters and ran dino oil, at least for the first month or so, i had no start-up rattle. But i switched to syn oil and a large NAPA oil filter, and the larger Toyota oil filter and i have the rattle again. To be honest i'm kinda at the point right now where i just say to heck with it, let it rattle.

It was embarrasing the other day when i was at my girls house and my truck had been sitting over night. Went out the next morning to leave and here i am sitting next to some chevys, fords, ect.......and people look at me like i have a super nice, bullet proof truck (which i do of course) and then i crank it up and it rattles like a spray can! WTF!

 

[landtoy80]

<I only get it when I disconnect the battery and my first start the idle is very high, it makes a very nasty noise that I do not like at all>

I think the noise you hear is from Reed Valve. It is a part of the Pulsed Seconndary Air Injection System. It is your emission system.
When you start up after the battery is unhooked, air is injected into the exhaust.
It makes a hell of a noise.

I don't know if the Reed Valve is on when you start up on normal starts. It would be something to look into though.

I didn't have the start up rattle untill I put on new O2 sensor. Now that the RPM's at start up is 1800 to 2000 rpm, I hear the rattle.

 

[RavenTai]

no Pair system on the '96, my idle is over 2k for the first start after reset and makes what I assume is the "start-up rattle" , after a few starts it drops down to about 800-1k for just after start and settles down to 650 in a few seconds

very intersting raven. If i think back to all the different oil filters i've tried i do believe that when i purchased the smaller of the Toyota oil filters and ran dino oil, at least for the first month or so, i had no start-up rattle. But i switched to syn oil and a large NAPA oil filter, and the larger Toyota oil filter and i have the rattle again. To be honest i'm kinda at the point right now where i just say to heck with it, let it rattle.

It was embarrasing the other day when i was at my girls house and my truck had been sitting over night. Went out the next morning to leave and here i am sitting next to some chevys, fords, ect.......and people look at me like i have a super nice, bullet proof truck (which i do of course) and then i crank it up and it rattles like a spray can! WTF!

I wonder if you got the start up idle speed down if it would decrease or eliminate the rattle?

 

[landtoy80]

The 96 has no air injection into the exhaust?

 

[97 FZJ80]

Had the rattle. Went from 5w-30 to 10w-30 and it went away. No rattle is good. Parts banging on each other is bad.
Wasn't there a theory that it was a timing chain thing?

I stopped using Mobil 1 5W30 for the same reason. With 10W30 and the 20004 filter, it doesn't rattle even after sitting for three weeks!

 

[RavenTai]

The 96 has no air injection into the exhaust?

correct, I think PAIR stopped in 95?

 

[RavenTai]

I stopped using Mobil 1 5W30 for the same reason. With 10W30 and the 20004 filter, it doesn't rattle even after sitting for three weeks!

I have been using Mobil Delvac 1 5w40, that also may be why I don't get it most of the time, maybe with the thicker oil stays in the passages?

 

[sjcruiser]

If the anti-drain back valve in the filter is working properly, then this would minimize the time needed to lubricate the engines. Cheap filters might have this valve leaks, thus the filter is not prefilled after sitting for a period of time, which also causes start up rattle.

 

[syrinxstar]

Big Napa/Wix filter plus dino 5w30 and no rattle. ;p

 

[RavenTai]

If the anti-drain back valve in the filter is working properly, then this would minimize the time needed to lubricate the engines. Cheap filters might have this valve leaks, thus the filter is not prefilled after sitting for a period of time, which also causes start up rattle.

Wile I agree cheap filters with poor ADBV's will allow the filter do drain more, a good one will not necessarily keep a horizontal filter full, the Anti-drain back valve is there to supposedly keep oil in the passages above the filter, it does this by preventing oil from back flowing out the filter inlet and out to the pump then pan,

It does nothing to keep oil from flowing out the outlet (center threaded hole) on a if there is a place for it to seep out like the main bearings or piston cooling oil nozzles who’s pressure valve has failed or other drainage point the filter will be less than half full even with a good ADBV,

I have noticed even with good Toyota filters if I let it set for a wile a lot less oil comes out of the filter during an oil change

 

[cary]

The startup rattle appears to have no effect on engine wear. Take a look at the UOA's of these engines and the long life they have. This is a common issue with many toyota models and not worth wasting time worrying about. As the guy at the parts store said when I mentioned it last year "All toyotas have that high startup idle and rattle, they all last forever to, don't worry about it."

Cary

 

[scottm]

I got the "they all do it" advice on my VW and Audi 5-cylinders. They rattled like diesels all the time, oil pressure bottomed out at hot idle. I totalled two with over 200k and no problems. My turbo quattro is now my daughter's college car with 250k and running strong. They all ran M1 15W50, which I just switched both my 80s to. Both my 80s had faint startup rattle with M1 5W30 and 20004 filter. I haven't driven much since the switch (I'm biking to work), but haven't noticed any rattle.

 

[landtoy80]

DO you run 15w50 in winter time?

 

[landtank]

Strangest thing this morning. Truck started almost imediately and no rattle.



IIRC from and old thread, removing the PAIR system was part of Toyota's campaign to lighten the truck.

 

[cruiserdan]

(I'm biking to work)

ROTFLMFAO.....


I just can't quite explain it, but the mental picture of an airline captain "biking" to work strikes me funny bone quite briskly........


Do you have a trailer for your briefcase thingy that you carry all of your log stuff in?

 

[alaskacruiser]

Can someone explain to me the purpose of this PAIR system?

 

[RavenTai]

Can someone explain to me the purpose of this PAIR system?

http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h65.pdf

 

[RavenTai]

The startup rattle appears to have no effect on engine wear. Take a look at the UOA's of these engines and the long life they have. This is a common issue with many toyota models and not worth wasting time worrying about. As the guy at the parts store said when I mentioned it last year "All toyotas have that high startup idle and rattle, they all last forever to, don't worry about it."

Cary

you have a point, 80's and Toyota's in general are not exaclty dropping like flies on the side fo the road but I woudl still like to know the source of the rattle and if a few simple things like filter and oil selection and idle speed adjustments can reduce/eliminate the rattle I would feel better aobut it

I also wonder if this is related to chain slipper problems some have experienced and the updated version Toyota released