Starting Trouble

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UWdave

10 Year 15 Year
Joined
May 18, 2009
Threads
67
Messages
629
Location
Pacific NW
UPDATED ON POST #31

So I've own the car for a total of 2 weeks and I've just encountered my first problem.

Weekend - Wheelin' and driving great
Monday - Drove to Walmart, washed the mud off (not the engine bay)
Tuesday - moved the car around the driveway, did a little work on the interior, hooked up a trailor to test out my plug
Today - won't start (85deg hot day)

Turn the key to on, all the lights come on. When I move to start I get one click and all the lights go out. Move the switch back to off and repeat. Get the same thing.

Get the Multi-Meter - 12.5V (little low)
Clean the post & clamp - same results
Check all fuses - can't find any blown
Jumper to the Civic - same results

Fiddle around some more, then things change. Now I get a click when I turn to start but then the dash lights stay on. Then all of the sudden it starts. After a few revs, the idle drops way low. When the idle drops, the voltage drops. When I rev the engine, the voltage goes up. I stop the engine and restart no problem a couple of times.

I turn the engine off and wait for 15min, won't start again.

I'm fed up for the night, but here are my thoughts on trouble shooting tomorrow:

- get running, remove battery (proves alternator working)
- Put in the battery from my '88 Chevy 250 (couldn't jump from the truck, blocked in by the 80. Should prove if battery is issue)

Any other thoughts?
- Should I check any relays? How?
 
Last edited:
Id say replace the startor..... if it will not start try tapping the selonid with a hammer or pry bar and see if it starts.... if it does then its the startor
 
Are you refering to a the solenoid or the motor?

Where is the solenoid on this rig?
 
Gave it a quick start before work. Fired up just fine.

Got to love sporadic gremlins.
 
OK - First off don't "start trouble" around here. j/k couldn't resist.

There have been a few reports of this lately. People mention the starter - a click, no start is the symptom of your starter contacts being in need of replacement. This may or may not be the case for you - but I would do it anyway as some have had the starters engage and not disengage after ignoring the click for a while. Running the engine with the starter engaged causes bad things to happen.

I am guessing your alternator is OK as the problem seems intermittent and seems to run OK at times - alternators do not often behave that way.

I would also venture the guess that your battery is fine too for the same reasons as the alternator.

What does this leave? Wiring. When it acts up - get the voltage at the starter not the battery. I am guessing that you have a corroded ground from the battery to the frame/engine. When I swapped out mine a couple of months ago I found corrosion on the ground cable at the end it attaches to the engine.

Also inspect your fusible links by the positive terminal on your battery.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys. I really need to get my hands on the service manual.

When you guys keep mentioning the starter, you are talking about the starter solenoid relay right? I've looked up what it looks like on rock auto, so that should help me find it. Any hints? On my old trucks it was right by the battery.

And the "fusable links", are these the links in the small black box about 6" down the positive battery cable. I opened this expecting fuses but just found terminal lugs. Any advice?

I'll pull a resistance value off of my ground straps. I have some extra 4AWG so maybe I'll just double up the chassis ground.

Thanks for putting up with all the noob questions guys. I've worked on old ford/chevy trucks and my little civic, but this toyota is quite a bit different.
 
UWdave said:
Thanks for all the advice guys. I really need to get my hands on the service manual.

When you guys keep mentioning the starter, you are talking about the starter solenoid relay right? I've looked up what it looks like on rock auto, so that should help me find it. Any hints? On my old trucks it was right by the battery.
Click to expand...

No it is integrated into the starter itself. There is a FAQ at the top of the forum that explains the swapping of the starter contacts in detail.

UWdave said:
And the "fusable links", are these the links in the small black box about 6" down the positive battery cable. I opened this expecting fuses but just found terminal lugs. Any advice?
Click to expand...

It is the wires that you see terminating in that black box. These are smaller gauge that the wires they connect to so that they fry first in a short circuit situation. Test the resistance across them.

UWdave said:
I'll pull a resistance value off of my ground straps. I have some extra 4AWG so maybe I'll just double up the chassis ground.

Thanks for putting up with all the noob questions guys. I've worked on old ford/chevy trucks and my little civic, but this toyota is quite a bit different.
Click to expand...

Actually in a lot of ways they are very similar to old Chevy hardware - particularly the older 3FE engines. There is an abundance of knowledge on this board - just ask the questions.
 
Definetly replace the starter contacts. I had this issue for several months and I didn't replace them.... well the starter got stuck open and toasted it and the alternator. A $30 fix can easily turn into well over $300 if you don not take care of this NOW. In a ten minute period, I melted the internal componets of the starter to the point where it fused the screws & blew out the voltage regulator on the alternator. Any longer I probablly would have needed a new battery too! That was luckily spared in my case.

Don't attempt to start it and drive it as if it sticks and you are not aware of it, it could and probablly will start a fire if power is applied for long enough. Definetly disconect the battery while awaiting you starter rebuild kit from CDan at American Toyota or your local "stealership".

But then again that's just my $0.02.
 
How do you detect if the starter is sticking? I would guess there would be a very mechanical "whirling" sound?
 
I just searched Rock Auto and found this:

STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS Part # {SOLENOID OR SWITCH}

SS461 2.0 kW - $45
SS449 1.4 kW - $82

If I have the 2.0kW, I might just buy a whole new solenoid.

I'm going to pull the starter today, hopefully nothing is melted. Thinking back I may have run with the starter engaged last week.
 
Pull the left front tire and pull the splash shield out in front of the starter, this will make access easier. Also, I wish that I had a ratcheting closed end 17mm wrench for this job for the rear bolt. There is not alot of room for a 1/2" drive ratchet & socket in there. It will work fine with an extension for the front bolt however.
Do yourself a favor and get a toyota starter and be done with it. I know the other starters are cheaper but you be back in there in no time replacing it and it'll end up costing you more in the long run plus the inconvience of most likely beinging stuck somewhere when the cheaper unit fails.
 
Oh and if the starter sticks you will here a whirling sound. Just keep you radio volume down at start up to listen for it. If you hear it. Shut it off immediately. You will most likely have to disconnect the battery terminal since your ignition will be rendered useless due to the starter sticking.
 
So I'm trying to buy the "starter rebuild kit" but I'm having trouble finding the PN.

It was hard to be certain, but I'm pretty sure my PN on the starter is 28100-66060-64. (some number hard to read) So this means I have the cold weather version. Anybody know the non cold weather version pn? Want to make sure it isn't close. Some of my 6s could be 8s.

I've PMed and called cruiserDan and have been unable to get in touch.

I called the local stealership and they couldn't find a PN for a "rebuild kit".

Anybody know the PNs I need?
 
Non-cold version starter (1.4kw) PN is 28100-66040 (Correct me if I am wrong).

Anyway, the PN for your cold version is:

28226-66060 contact
28226-72010 contact
28235-54380 plunger (Suggest you replace this too.)
 
wxm said:
Non-cold version starter (1.4kw) PN is 28100-66040 (Correct me if I am wrong).

Anyway, the PN for your cold version is:

28226-66060 contact
28226-72010 contact
28235-54380 plunger (Suggest you replace this too.)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info.

That 1.4kW PN is scarily close to the 2.0kW. I better do a triple take in my engine. It was very difficult to read even after cleaning.

On the repair parts, the ones you listed match those in the FAQ section, but I was confused by the "-Note: Wrong Dealer Pic tags in pictures (George _tlc Nov 2005 ) " in the link.


Also, I thought it was funny but I've called 2 different stealerships and both didn't recognize any different starters.
 
UWdave said:
Thanks for the info.

That 1.4kW PN is scarily close to the 2.0kW. I better do a triple take in my engine. It was very difficult to read even after cleaning.

On the repair parts, the ones you listed match those in the FAQ section, but I was confused by the "-Note: Wrong Dealer Pic tags in pictures (George _tlc Nov 2005 ) " in the link.


Also, I thought it was funny but I've called 2 different stealerships and both didn't recognize any different starters.
Click to expand...

The dealer around me did not even want to sell me the rebuild kid, they want me to buy an entire starter. Go figure!

I was puzzling about the in FAQ at the time. Maybe someone can clarify for us. In either case, the part numbers are confirmed by CDan (https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/187649-starter-contacts-part-s.html). He knows these things!
 
short causing the no start

if the truck is turning over... but not starting...

My fzj80 had exact same problem. (thought it was fuelpump or relay... etc)

I found that the wire harness that goes from inside to the outside of the cabin is rubbing and shorting out the fuel pump. The hole where the wires pass through is in the back seat driver side floor under the carpet. (the rubber ring had fallen out allowing wires to contact metal body)

to test.. when truck wont start.. just reach under the truck and try wiggling the wire harness as it comes out of the floor as truck is turned over.

hope this helps...

Steve
 
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