I have a new intermittent starting issue. Parked at autozone for about 10 minutes, maybe less. Got in the car to start it and when i turned the key to “start” i heard something click once in the hood (starter relay? Idk) but the starter didnt do anything at all. Wouldnt even turn over. Tried a few more times and nothing. Waited for about 10 more minutes and it started right away. Was working fine for the next 4 or 5 starts and then right as i’m joking about the incident later in the day, i go to start it up and it does the same exact thing. This time, i disconnected the negative battery terminal, turned the key to start to drain residual power, put the terminal back on, and she started right up. The car was in park, no steering lock, and i dont believe it has to do with my aftermarket alarm, because i tried to start it both times with the system in regular mode and valet mode (most features disabled) and it didnt change anything. Remote start, security, keyless entry, status light work fine. Battery is a year old. Starter is original but sounds fine. Not sure about starter relay, neutral safety switch, or other things. I did take it off roading on Sunday and went thru a mud puddle that was to the bottom of the doors, but had no starting problems until today, 2 days later. Any ideas of what may be wrong or what to look for? Thanks in advance.
Starting issue (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Demonic92
- Start date
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DivByZero
SILVER Star
I only have experience with the diesel models, but on my HZJ80 I know the starter relay is a weak point. They do fail, and cause the kind of symptoms you're describing. My LN106 Hilux used the exact same starter relay, and had the same trouble. They last for years, but past the 10-15 year mark I'd replace them as preventative maintenance. Ideally a starter rebuild with new contacts/plunger at the same time, but I'd wager the relay would fix it if you're having issues.
Again, not sure if this translates to the petrol models, but that's my experience with Toyota diesels after 30 years. Hopefully someone with more FZJ80 experience can chime in.
Again, not sure if this translates to the petrol models, but that's my experience with Toyota diesels after 30 years. Hopefully someone with more FZJ80 experience can chime in.
there is no relay in petrol. So most likely starter is dying (at least this is way easier to replace entire unit) and also you 'd need to add a solenoid - this helped to resolve exactly the same issue i had since i bought my rig. By now no issues (more than a year or two).
p.s you can try to check first terminals, clean etc...if there is no problem, you can buy service kit for your starter (but is waste of time and money IMHO).
Cheers
p.s you can try to check first terminals, clean etc...if there is no problem, you can buy service kit for your starter (but is waste of time and money IMHO).
Cheers
- Thread starter
- #4
Why do i need to add solenoid? Isnt it built in to starter? Battery cables and terminals are almost new
Nope it's not (there is starter relay right on the start). Solenoid helps to "relief" the electrical load between the ignition (key) and the starter. This is common practice and weak link in a chain.
Cables and terminals are new is definitely good. Sometimes there is just bad contact (but if so the lights on the dash a not as bright)
Cables and terminals are new is definitely good. Sometimes there is just bad contact (but if so the lights on the dash a not as bright)
- Thread starter
- #6
Reman starter (28100-60070-04) is only $100 from my local dealer. That would eliminate any possible issue with relay/solenoid/starter. Battery cables and terminals are good. Ignition switch is good. So how about the neutral safety switch? How do i eliminate that being the cause? If i remove my current starter and have it bench tested, will they be able to see if it’s bad or not, based on the fact that the issue is intermittent with it acting/sounding fine and normal when the issue isnt present? Any other possible parts in the starting system that I’m overlooking?
you may open at and visually (1st) assess how do the principal parts look like: stator, rotor, brushes and copper contacts (!).
i bought a new starter for about 60 dls in amazon, and relay - 20...so this kit works perfect. Don't want to deal with no-start
Just replace and forget
i bought a new starter for about 60 dls in amazon, and relay - 20...so this kit works perfect. Don't want to deal with no-start
Just replace and forgetProbably not the starter. Easy way to rule it out. Verify your battery is good. Also visually inspect it. It can test good but still be bad. Look and see if the sides are bulging out on the battery. Check acid level if possible.
Take a one meter piece of 14 gauge wire and put some crimp-on needle nose alligator clamps on it. Available at any auto parts store. Turn your wheels all the way to the right. Shut off truck. You can see and reach the starter sitting on the ground.
Sit down, reach in, and remove the little plug on top of the starter with the single wire and clamp one side to the spade terminal that you removed the plug from. You can not see the actual piece to clamp to because of the housing but I believe it is horizontal to the ground.
Run the wire to the battery tray and clamp the other side to the rubber on the tray. Shove something on the brake. Turn key to on position. Go touch and hold the other end of the cable to the battery post. Release once truck is running. Will happen quickly. If it starts right up it's not your starter. (It if doesn't, obviously replace it.)
Order Painless Wiring Hot Shot 30202 and install. Done. Then you can take your sweet time finding the actual problem but 9 times out of 10 your wiring is fried by the EGR.
Take a one meter piece of 14 gauge wire and put some crimp-on needle nose alligator clamps on it. Available at any auto parts store. Turn your wheels all the way to the right. Shut off truck. You can see and reach the starter sitting on the ground.
Sit down, reach in, and remove the little plug on top of the starter with the single wire and clamp one side to the spade terminal that you removed the plug from. You can not see the actual piece to clamp to because of the housing but I believe it is horizontal to the ground.
Run the wire to the battery tray and clamp the other side to the rubber on the tray. Shove something on the brake. Turn key to on position. Go touch and hold the other end of the cable to the battery post. Release once truck is running. Will happen quickly. If it starts right up it's not your starter. (It if doesn't, obviously replace it.)
Order Painless Wiring Hot Shot 30202 and install. Done. Then you can take your sweet time finding the actual problem but 9 times out of 10 your wiring is fried by the EGR.
Couple of things jump out here.
If you turn the key to START and you get a good solid "thunk" from the starter, then the solenoid is pulling in. This verifies all logic to the starter and points directly to the starter contacts which has been discussed 100s of times on this forum. This assumes that battery cables are tight and the wire from the positive battery terminal to the starter lug is tight.
Considering that you said the starter is original, which puts it at a minimum of 24 years old, those contacts would be well past due for replacement.
US spec 80s do not have a separate starter relay. The solenoid is part of the starter.
You said, "i disconnected the negative battery terminal, turned the key to start to drain residual power".
This does nothing but exercise the ignition cylinder.
If you turn the key to START and you get a good solid "thunk" from the starter, then the solenoid is pulling in. This verifies all logic to the starter and points directly to the starter contacts which has been discussed 100s of times on this forum. This assumes that battery cables are tight and the wire from the positive battery terminal to the starter lug is tight.
Considering that you said the starter is original, which puts it at a minimum of 24 years old, those contacts would be well past due for replacement.
US spec 80s do not have a separate starter relay. The solenoid is part of the starter.
You said, "i disconnected the negative battery terminal, turned the key to start to drain residual power".
This does nothing but exercise the ignition cylinder.
- Thread starter
- #10
You think it was a coincidence that it started after i reconnected the battery? Probably a safe bet to replace starter regardless of if it’s the problem or not, i assume. No concerns abt neutral safety switch, because if that didnt work, there would be no solenoid action, correct?
If it's an OEM Denso starter, I would simply replace the contacts. Having details on the vehicle would also help, but you can purchase contacts and plunger from Absolute Wits End as a kit or individually from Toyota.
Different parts for a 3FE starter vs a 1FZ starter, so you need to be specific.
Also, a remanufactured OEM starter is no guarantee of quality anymore. I had 2 OEM starters in red and white boxes shipped from Toyota with faulty contacts right out of the box.
Again, if you're getting a good solid "thunk" from the starter when turning the key to START, then all logic is good and your issue is the lack of +12 getting to the starter motor through the solenoid contacts. 100s of posts on this if you search for starter contacts, including videos and tutorials.
Starter Rebuild Kit- 2F/3F-E Land Cruisers, 1.0kW
Starter Rebuild Kit- 2F/3F-E Land Cruisers, 1.0Kw (SRK-1KIT)
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Mine did exactly as you describe a couple years ago. It was the starter, which was also original at the time. I tried new contacts/plunger first but that didn't solve the issue. Ended up replacing with a Denso from Autozone with a lifetime warranty. No issues now. Replacing the starter on these is easy, took me less than 30 minutes.
typically the CLICKING issue with ANY Toyota starter , if all else is good , solid and hooked up right electrically is to unbolt , turn is a core
The TOYOTA remanufactured Dealer starters if available carry a one year unlimited miles warranty and are DENSO JAPAN remanufactured now again ........
the 60070 is only for a 3FE equipped 80 series fyi ........
its a good option ,. and you can't beat the warranty or price for a JAPAN parts reman unit
NOTHING else available in the USA touched that close..........
The TOYOTA remanufactured Dealer starters if available carry a one year unlimited miles warranty and are DENSO JAPAN remanufactured now again ........
the 60070 is only for a 3FE equipped 80 series fyi ........
its a good option ,. and you can't beat the warranty or price for a JAPAN parts reman unit
NOTHING else available in the USA touched that close..........
The first thing to do is to take a hammer or decent sized wrench, reach through the driver's side wheel well, and tap on the end of the starter. If that fixes it, then you know it's the contacts and plunger that make up the solenoid.
I replaced my original starter with a Denso from RockAuto. Worked great until it wouldn't start after a long drive, only a month or two after installation. I smacked the starter with a hammer and it fired right up.
It worked great for the next couple of years, then it acted up again. I had a Dorman (I think) solenoid rebuild kit, so I pulled the starter and replaced the contacts. I was surprised to find that the Denso contacts weren't installed fully against the backing plate. The FSM says to use a press to seat the contacts fully down while tightening the nuts. I don't think that they applied sufficient force at the factory, resulting in uneven contact position and a poor connection with the plunger.
I would post a picture, but due to shadows, none of them allow you to make out the uneven seating.
I replaced my original starter with a Denso from RockAuto. Worked great until it wouldn't start after a long drive, only a month or two after installation. I smacked the starter with a hammer and it fired right up.
It worked great for the next couple of years, then it acted up again. I had a Dorman (I think) solenoid rebuild kit, so I pulled the starter and replaced the contacts. I was surprised to find that the Denso contacts weren't installed fully against the backing plate. The FSM says to use a press to seat the contacts fully down while tightening the nuts. I don't think that they applied sufficient force at the factory, resulting in uneven contact position and a poor connection with the plunger.
I would post a picture, but due to shadows, none of them allow you to make out the uneven seating.
This video gives a good view of what the contacts look like and how the solenoid functions:
Can you provide a link to a Denso starter from Autozone with a lifetime warranty?
Maybe you just had a loose battery connection because you recently replaced the battery cables. This would be supported by the fact that apparently removing and reinstalling your negative cable seems to have cleared the issue up.
If it were me I would double check all the battery and starter connections and wait. If the problem came back than I would go ahead and work on the starter.
If it were me I would double check all the battery and starter connections and wait. If the problem came back than I would go ahead and work on the starter.
In the past 1-1.5 years I've had the 80 not start 2-3x but after a few minutes it'll start and go months with no issue. It has 240k miles so it's probably a good time to replace it. First going to take it to autozone to see if it's the starter or something else. Changed the battery terminals.
Need help identify which bolts to remove. Is it these ciecled in red? The top one is hard to get to, currently using a long breaker bar to try to loosen it but dont have much space.
Need help identify which bolts to remove. Is it these ciecled in red? The top one is hard to get to, currently using a long breaker bar to try to loosen it but dont have much space.
- Thread starter
- #20
Thought I’d come back and update, happened again last night. Heard that click but nothing else. Didn’t have a hammer so I read online that i can try rocking the vehicle back and forth. I took parking brake off and simply let it roll forward on to the parking gear and it started right up. So I think I’ll get a rebuild kit for my starter and do that.
