Starter Trigger Wire Replacement

[thenative1]

Morning all!

After running like a swiss watch for over 3 years, my beloved '89 FJ62 started intermittently last week. Adjustments/work I did:

(1) replaced the ignition core (last Wednesday, did not solve the problem);
(2) replaced the starter (last Thursday, seemed to solve the problem temporarily).

Based on this forum on MUD, I think (fingers crossed) that installing a relay to boost the juice running to the starter solenoid will solve the problem. HOWEVER, I would still like to fully replace the trigger wire. My question to you, all-knowing Mud mind:

(1) How bad is the wiring spaghetti to get from the starter to the other end of the wire?
(2) What/where is the other end of the trigger wire? To what/where does it connect?

Thanks in advance for your collective and generously dispersed wisdom.

E

 

[cliffrdavis]

Before going through all that can you give us the symptoms. By far the most common starting issues on these rigs is a poor ground wire to the starter and/or frame followed by the starter and battery connections being corroded. These are much easier fixes.

Usually if it’s an amperage/connection issue the starter solenoid will fire (clicking sound) but the starter will barely turn or not at all.

The fact the new starter helped makes me think it’s more likely the above issues as the “trigger wire” shouldn’t be effected by a new starter.

Clean all of the above connections with a metal wire brush. Remove and clean the ground wires from battery to frame and frame to starter. I coat all major connections with dielectric grease (marine trick to prevent corrosion). Then recheck. But post your symptoms more clearly. Are all the accessories working when ignition is “on”. Headlights and interior lights bright? Turn on accessories and try to start - do they all die? This will help diagnose the issue.

If everything seems to have great power then it could be ignitions switch or trigger wire but check above first!

 

[thenative1]

Thanks Cliff.

Symptoms: currently when the key is turned, you hear nothing and absolutely zero action/attempt by the starter to do anything. The battery is good (tested) and all accessories (headlights, interior convenience lights, door locks etc.) are bright and work. Nothing else (radio, windows, etc.) operates without the truck being on. When I replaced the starter, I cleaned the trigger wire connector as best I could. Used electrical connector spray but did not use dielectric grease. Will try to pick some up today.

Oddly, when I replaced the starter, she started fine maybe 12-15 times without issue (late last week). Then parked her in the driveway overnight and the following morning would not start for love or money.

Ground wire to the starter appears to be good but will check again today when I’m under the truck.

My plan today was to install a relay per the thread linked here to push more juice directly to the solenoid.

Any advice/counsel is welcome. Thanks!

E

 

[Lead Head]

Hold the key to start while you run the shifter through the gears. See if it starts at some point as you go through them. Make sure your foot is on the brake.

 

[Spike Strip]

Has the Ignition starter switch ever been replaced? (not the key, the switch behind it that is the switch for the solenoid trigger wire).

 

[thenative1]

Has the Ignition starter switch ever been replaced? (not the key, the switch behind it that is the switch for the solenoid trigger wire).

Certainly not by me. But that sounds like something I would like to do. How do I get to it and what gets replaced?

 

[Spike Strip]

Remove the plastic clamshell around the steering column. YOu'll see it. Plenty of threads with pix. Simple one-screw. You may have to remove the Ignition Key cylinder which is very simple. Again, threads and vids on YT.

FJ62 3FE Ignition KEY Electrical Switch Fits 8/87-1990 Part # 84450-60150 / 88450-60151 3F-E - VintageTEqParts.com

- FJ62 3FE / 3F-E Ignition KEY Electrical Switch - Fits 8/87-1990 Part # 84450-60150 / 88450-60151 Date...

vintageteqparts.com

 

[cliffrdavis]

So you are saying you don’t even get the solenoid firing when you turn the switch? That does suggest it is a switch issue - but I would still rule out all the easy things.

Do you have someone that can check the voltage on the trigger wire when you turn the key?

I think lead head is suggesting the if the shifter is loose it can prevent the ignition switch connection - called neutral safety switch. Or the switch can go bad. But again - start with the most simple - battery, even if it’s a little loose, work from there. Check neutral start switch. Hot wire the trigger wire if you need to and then work backwards. If that’s not hot with key on start check the ignition starter switch. Then key ignition.

 

[thenative1]

Thanks Spike. Have ordered the part and will look forward to replacing it, even if it’s not the culprit. Probably a good thing to do proactively.

 

[thenative1]

So you are saying you don’t even get the solenoid firing when you turn the switch? That does suggest it is a switch issue - but I would still rule out all the easy things.

Do you have someone that can check the voltage on the trigger wire when you turn the key?

I think lead head is suggesting the if the shifter is loose it can prevent the ignition switch connection - called neutral safety switch. Or the switch can go bad. But again - start with the most simple - battery, even if it’s a little loose, work from there. Check neutral start switch. Hot wire the trigger wire if you need to and then work backwards. If that’s not hot with key on start check the ignition starter switch. Then key ignition.

Correct. No action of any kind when the key is turned. Have also jiggled/pushed/tapped/manipulated the gearshift in a variety of ways in both Park and Neutral to see if that would temporarily make a faulty connection. No joy there, even though that doesn’t rule it out. And I had another FJ62 with a loose shifter and replaced the bushings. This one feels appropriately tight.

Will get under the truck tomorrow and do what I can to work from simple > complex. Within that, have a few parts coming in that I will replace (solenoid cable, starter switch, etc.) that I’m going to replace in the process. Will report back - thanks again!

 

[thenative1]

Bump to nail down these two questions:

(1) How bad is the wiring spaghetti to get from the starter to the other end of the trigger wire?
(2) What/where is the other end of the trigger wire? To what/where does it connect? Into a harness or a single wire into the back of the ignition?

Thanks!

 

[Godwin]

Bump to nail down these two questions:

(1) How bad is the wiring spaghetti to get from the starter to the other end of the trigger wire?
(2) What/where is the other end of the trigger wire? To what/where does it connect? Into a harness or a single wire into the back of the ignition?

Thanks!

To answer these questions I think you'll need to pull the wiring harness, unwrap it and follow the wires. Not worth the effort, IMO.

I recommend you install a relay. It's non-intrusive, easy to setup, and relatively inexpensive and I think will cure your non-start issue. I've installed starter relays on a FJ60 with a 3FE swap and a stock FZJ80. Both had been experiencing poor start conditions even after starter rebuilds and upgrading and cleaning cable ends and replacing battery lugs.

 

[thenative1]

Well, I think (fingers crossed) that I’ve sorted it. Thanks to MUD and all the suggestions/hints and in particular to Matt @Vintageteqparts (whose knowledge is impressive and seemingly encyclopedic), I replaced the ignition switch this morning, removed the relay, and she started right up.

I think it makes sense that it was the ignition switch rather than the solenoid wire because when turning the key, NOTHING happened. Accessories didn’t come on, dash lights didn’t work, and the only thing that continued to work were the things that were hot and not reliant on the ignition switch (headlights, door locks, interior lights, etc.).

I’m going to start it a few dozens times in the driveway to be sure but with any luck, that’s sorted it.

Thanks again all - your help was (as always) much appreciated!

 

[thenative1]

Ugh - back to the drawing board. I am FAILING at this repair.

As mentioned above, swapped in the new ignition switch yesterday and she started right up! Started perfectly four times (I started recording each successful start) before I shut down for the day. Woke up this morning and went outside for a test start and…NOTHING. Same as before: all the hot elements of the car - headlights, interior lights, locks - work fine. When I turn the key there are no dash lights, no clicking, no activity of any kind.

There is something here I am missing and I am afraid it is basic. But on the basic side, the battery is good, the grounds (battery, starter) all seem good and I CANNOT figure out why it seems to start fine a few times after swapping in new components (starter/ignition switch) and then reverts to being completely dead.

I have a replacement neutral safety switch arriving tomorrow but at this point I don’t think that’s the issue. I’m going to hold off installing that until I gather some more information/suggestions.

 

[Malleus]

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere in the thread, although I might have missed it: have you checked the grounds? Toyota electrical systems are always "on" when grounded. If a ground fails, you don't have a circuit. The primary engine ground, what Toyota calls the engine bond cable, should be connected to the engine mount under the air conditioning compressor. There should be a second bond cable, directly to the starter. Both should be obvious.

What would we do without PartSouq?

 

[thenative1]

Thanks Malleus. I am going to triple check the grounds today. I believe they are all good. And the part that continues to make no sense to me is why it starts fine temporarily, typically after I’ve replaced something. It might be coincidental but seems very strange.

 

[Malleus]

Sounds like corrosion to me, but it's hard to tell for certain from here

Deoxit and CRC plastic safe contact cleaner are your friends.

 

[thenative1]

Sounds like corrosion to me, but it's hard to tell for certain from here

Deoxit and CRC plastic safe contact cleaner are your friends.

Thanks! No visible corrosion but just removed the ground from the starter, scrubbed and cleaned it (there was no visible sign of any corrosion/degradation) and scraped minimal gunk away at the connection to the frame. Reinstalled it, reconnected the battery and it started right up! But I’ve been here before so going to document a couple of dozen starts before declaring it “fixed”. We will see!

 

[John McVicker]

My suggestion is for you to follow @Godwin advice in his post 12.

Cured my no start on my 40 & my 60. Years and years ago. Has never once repeated itself.

 

[thenative1]

My suggestion is for you to follow @Godwin advice in his post 12.

Cured my no start on my 40 & my 60. Years and years ago. Has never once repeated itself.

Thanks John - I installed a relay a few days ago and no joy. But now I have all the parts (and have left the relay mounted to the firewall but disconnected) and if the problem recurs, I am going to revisit the relay. Appreciate the suggestion.