Remember my stories about my tire carrier shearing the pivot? All that weight up high does nasty stuff on the highway. Have you thought of how to brace the carrier to prevent that?
Builds Shipwreck (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter SuperBuickGuy
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- #1,562
I think it will be okay, I've two pivot points carrying the load and it's supported in the middle... but we'll see...
Mine was moving forward and backward because of the scalloped highway. Taller with weight up high will just make that more pronounced. Be sure you at least tether each side. CB antenna Coax is not sufficient 
It is a sickening feeling having your carrier bouncing down the road behind you. Been there, done that.
It is a sickening feeling having your carrier bouncing down the road behind you. Been there, done that.
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- #1,564
No pictures tonight, somehow I borrowed my dad's rubber tape measure and tomorrow will be a repeat of today - only with boxes in the dimensions I need (and the pirates rejoice).
Stretching that tape measure too hard, huh? Happens to all of us. Well, not really. 
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- #1,566
not my fault, my dad's fault
I always blame my dog. He likes to run me down right as I am measuring or doing something critical.
- Thread starter
- #1,568
Buick wouldn't like that
My dog thinks they are love taps. At 90 lbs his love taps at full speed are a bit dangerous.
As for the previous comments regarding SFI certifications and items being the same... that's inaccurate. Whether someone wants to take the risk with non certified equipment is dependent on the "rules" (if applicable), the owner/driver, and their risk aversion. A past MR2 that I owned had a non SFI fixed FG seat which is fine for lower speed/risk autox, but wouldn't pass tech for a proper hill climb. Similarly a DOT helmet at Autox must meet certain certifications or the driver will have to find another helmet or not race.
The cheap seat I had could be the same it could be less safe (far more likely, as it's probably over-resined), but for that cars purpose I was ok with it. I made sure to get an SFI approved harness. I have non SFI 4 points in my 40, and they are far inferior to the 3" 5 point SFI belt I had in the MR2 in every way, shape, and form.
In reality, a roll cage in a street car is a terrible idea... mainly because it should be used with a driver wearing a helmet - hit your head on an unmoving proper cage at force and it will kill you. I have an unassembled version of the exact cage you have and am actually concerned about actual road safety... I will have to think long and hard about what proper padding should be used in any area a head could strike it.
They work together, it isn't the job of one or the other. Might want to research JK spring frequency variances between front and rear springs and compare to what you have up front. Most likely won't be an issue, but we also don't want to hear about an accident because of a difficult to handle vehicle at speed. There have been many other cruiser owners to lose their rigs this way.
The cheap seat I had could be the same it could be less safe (far more likely, as it's probably over-resined), but for that cars purpose I was ok with it. I made sure to get an SFI approved harness. I have non SFI 4 points in my 40, and they are far inferior to the 3" 5 point SFI belt I had in the MR2 in every way, shape, and form.
In reality, a roll cage in a street car is a terrible idea... mainly because it should be used with a driver wearing a helmet - hit your head on an unmoving proper cage at force and it will kill you. I have an unassembled version of the exact cage you have and am actually concerned about actual road safety... I will have to think long and hard about what proper padding should be used in any area a head could strike it.
So today's work
the tail was hanging a bit low after the installation of the spare carrier, so I swapped the 4" lift rear JK springs with the 4" front JK springs.
remember boys and girls, springs set ride height, shocks control ride... don't make me set RideTech on you... just believe me. whew.
They work together, it isn't the job of one or the other. Might want to research JK spring frequency variances between front and rear springs and compare to what you have up front. Most likely won't be an issue, but we also don't want to hear about an accident because of a difficult to handle vehicle at speed. There have been many other cruiser owners to lose their rigs this way.
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- #1,571
1) the SFI discussion centered around roll bar padding, please, don't take the conversation out of context. SFI rating, as it relates to roll bar padding is all about flammability. You're welcome to spend the extra money for the cert - but I don't race, I don't compete, I don't need SFI certification in this vehicle. Furthermore, it comes out of the same machine - you pay to play on someone else's playground.... so far, public lands don't have this requirement. If you wish to talk certs, we can talk my Corvette or my old Skylark - I'm quite conversant in certs.
2) A roll cage in an open top vehicle is a must, padding is even a better idea. There is no exception. A concussion is better then a broken spine or crushed body.
3) Springs.... frequency? a coil spring is a rod bent in a circle that's heat treated to keep it from cracking when it was bent in a circle. Front/rear discussion is only about static weight. Spring rate can help you with valving but in the end of the day the spring is only for maintaining ride height. In this case, the difference is the number of wraps and that the front isn't a progressive rate. To be clear, progressive is awesome for things that haul huge loads, but sometimes drive with no load. At this point, the luggage rate will vary by 100# - don't need progressive and it makes valving easier.
thanks for the worry, I've got this. Heck, I drove this today to work.
2) A roll cage in an open top vehicle is a must, padding is even a better idea. There is no exception. A concussion is better then a broken spine or crushed body.
3) Springs.... frequency? a coil spring is a rod bent in a circle that's heat treated to keep it from cracking when it was bent in a circle. Front/rear discussion is only about static weight. Spring rate can help you with valving but in the end of the day the spring is only for maintaining ride height. In this case, the difference is the number of wraps and that the front isn't a progressive rate. To be clear, progressive is awesome for things that haul huge loads, but sometimes drive with no load. At this point, the luggage rate will vary by 100# - don't need progressive and it makes valving easier.
thanks for the worry, I've got this. Heck, I drove this today to work.
"thanks for the worry, I've got this. Heck, I drove this today to work."
Wow, taking big chances huh? I hope your life insurance is up to date.
Just kidding. How does it drive? Get it up to highway speeds yet?
Wow, taking big chances huh? I hope your life insurance is up to date.
Just kidding. How does it drive? Get it up to highway speeds yet?
Talks about frequency tuned progressive coils and why:
#3
12 Things to Know About "Lifted" Suspension Engineering
This is specifically targeted at JK springs...
SFI does test for fire, but it also must meet strict compliance for impact (with strict tests) as well.
It's about risk aversion... if saving $50 in roll bar padding and there's a risk that could result in life or death, or extremely high hospital costs but chances of happening are very low, then save the $50.
#3
12 Things to Know About "Lifted" Suspension Engineering
This is specifically targeted at JK springs...
SFI does test for fire, but it also must meet strict compliance for impact (with strict tests) as well.
It's about risk aversion... if saving $50 in roll bar padding and there's a risk that could result in life or death, or extremely high hospital costs but chances of happening are very low, then save the $50.
- Thread starter
- #1,574
Again, we're not talking Chinese flywheels - we're talking what is pipe-wrap that was burned for flame properties (and some is UL rated if it's installed in a home). If you've got fire problems in your 4x4 - then you have other issues. Just like UL listing, SFI is an independent company who tests products. Oh, and there's this - the same folks that make SFI approved stuff, made my roll bar material.... in the same mold, in the same plant, with the same chemicals.
"Frequency" makes me laugh. It's a marketing pitch (pun intended). That word about "progressive" coils - that isn't a politically enlightened spring. That word defines the second word. That's a spring that has a tighter coil wind at the ends than the middle. My guess (and they don't define it) from your article is they're talking at the rate the spring compresses given the varying rates. AEV copies the manufacturer's and basically says theirs is the same - so if you want a JK that wallows, AEV can get you there (because the JK makes me sea sick).
All of which is great, but someone needs to trundle out and find a factory built, 5" stretched wheelbase, with coil springs on a 71 FJ40 with a SBC, manual transmission, one-tons, and Jeep transfer case standard before they tell me I'm missing a frequency calculation. Or better yet, go talk to the guy who wheeled a MB for a decade with springs stolen from the back of his mom's minivan (love ya Sam).
Oh and I suppose there's this as well.... it rides better now that I have 5" of travel on the rear... but what the hell do I know? I just build this stuff.... and race it.... and learned from the guys who wrote the books... heck, one them I even drove his race car for him... and there was that line I said awhile ago ... you know, the one I said about "tuning" the vehicle? which is what I'm doing. Let's just add this for effect - so I had pros design and build the shocks with their spring rates .... they were completely wrong. Matter of fact, I argued with them to get a different rate but they said "trust me." I did.... I shouldn't have. Which is also why I'm going to revalve this stuff myself - I'm quite tired of arguing with people.
So please, don't believe me, do everything the opposite of what I do, I surely don't care - but don't argue with me about how I'm building my vehicle when all I'm being repaid for taking the time to post it is with anger, aggravation and being told I'm an idiot.
"Frequency" makes me laugh. It's a marketing pitch (pun intended). That word about "progressive" coils - that isn't a politically enlightened spring. That word defines the second word. That's a spring that has a tighter coil wind at the ends than the middle. My guess (and they don't define it) from your article is they're talking at the rate the spring compresses given the varying rates. AEV copies the manufacturer's and basically says theirs is the same - so if you want a JK that wallows, AEV can get you there (because the JK makes me sea sick).
All of which is great, but someone needs to trundle out and find a factory built, 5" stretched wheelbase, with coil springs on a 71 FJ40 with a SBC, manual transmission, one-tons, and Jeep transfer case standard before they tell me I'm missing a frequency calculation. Or better yet, go talk to the guy who wheeled a MB for a decade with springs stolen from the back of his mom's minivan (love ya Sam).
Oh and I suppose there's this as well.... it rides better now that I have 5" of travel on the rear... but what the hell do I know? I just build this stuff.... and race it.... and learned from the guys who wrote the books... heck, one them I even drove his race car for him... and there was that line I said awhile ago ... you know, the one I said about "tuning" the vehicle? which is what I'm doing. Let's just add this for effect - so I had pros design and build the shocks with their spring rates .... they were completely wrong. Matter of fact, I argued with them to get a different rate but they said "trust me." I did.... I shouldn't have. Which is also why I'm going to revalve this stuff myself - I'm quite tired of arguing with people.
So please, don't believe me, do everything the opposite of what I do, I surely don't care - but don't argue with me about how I'm building my vehicle when all I'm being repaid for taking the time to post it is with anger, aggravation and being told I'm an idiot.
I didn't say any of those things about you or your demeanor. Suggesting that someone else buy non certified safety equipment may not be the best option.
However you've already proven yourself wrong. You said the spring only controls height of the vehicle, then say the taller 5" spring rides/controls better. I'm not arguing i was just pointing out that springs are more dynamic than you suggested.
Merely adding conversation to your thread, you don't have to always be on the overly defensive.
Believe it or not I read along and (mostly) admire the work you've done. I do find it interesting how you go on the defensive when something is mentioned that is anything but praise. The other member, which I'm guessing is a pretty good friend, was suggesting that maybe you reconsider the height of weight hanging on your swing outs - he made a mistake on his vehicle and was actually just looking out for you, and suggesting he wouldn't want to see the same happen to you. It was completely blown off as not a big deal. It wasn't questioning you or your abilities, just trying to help you out....
However you've already proven yourself wrong. You said the spring only controls height of the vehicle, then say the taller 5" spring rides/controls better. I'm not arguing i was just pointing out that springs are more dynamic than you suggested.
Merely adding conversation to your thread, you don't have to always be on the overly defensive.
Believe it or not I read along and (mostly) admire the work you've done. I do find it interesting how you go on the defensive when something is mentioned that is anything but praise. The other member, which I'm guessing is a pretty good friend, was suggesting that maybe you reconsider the height of weight hanging on your swing outs - he made a mistake on his vehicle and was actually just looking out for you, and suggesting he wouldn't want to see the same happen to you. It was completely blown off as not a big deal. It wasn't questioning you or your abilities, just trying to help you out....
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jstncse
Crawling over something
I think SBG is either a lawyer or in the insurance business. Perhaps a lawyer in the insurance business, one way or the other defensive is definitely in his nature.
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- #1,577
stop putting words in my mouth
I said lifted vehicles tend to handle better because the increased spring rate makes the body less prone to body roll. That has nothing to do with progressive spring rates. In short, handle better. In addition to those attributes, poly bushings (leaf springs) don't deflect as easily as rubber, thus making it handle better.
As for Steve's vehicle. I've seen his tire carrier. Mine is substantially different. For one, the tall side isn't connected to the spare so it's simply not possible for the tire to fall off like he described. On top of that, I simply said "we will see" to his comment. Steve hasn't seen this rack, and he's welcome to hang off the basket to see if he can get it to deflect.... it's not going anywhere, unless, of course, the fact that it blocks my rearward vision continues to bother me... then I'll make it removable.
And finally, as I said before, continuing to argue simply means I don't post anymore... then you win.
I said lifted vehicles tend to handle better because the increased spring rate makes the body less prone to body roll. That has nothing to do with progressive spring rates. In short, handle better. In addition to those attributes, poly bushings (leaf springs) don't deflect as easily as rubber, thus making it handle better.
As for Steve's vehicle. I've seen his tire carrier. Mine is substantially different. For one, the tall side isn't connected to the spare so it's simply not possible for the tire to fall off like he described. On top of that, I simply said "we will see" to his comment. Steve hasn't seen this rack, and he's welcome to hang off the basket to see if he can get it to deflect.... it's not going anywhere, unless, of course, the fact that it blocks my rearward vision continues to bother me... then I'll make it removable.
And finally, as I said before, continuing to argue simply means I don't post anymore... then you win.
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- #1,578
Even more reason to stop posting. thx
And actually, you're close. I am an attorney who spends his day defending people from their dumb decisions. I do cars to unwind - which underscores my insistence to stop arguing. I don't need this crap, I get it all day, every day.
Um, if I hung my fat butt off that basket it would fail for sure. You would need stronger springs too.
Removable is an awesome idea! Only mount it when needed. I like that.
I have actually been thinking of putting my spare in the back and remove the carrier. It blocks the view out the back in a big way. Especially when wheeling without side mirrors.
As for other's comments
Ha.
Removable is an awesome idea! Only mount it when needed. I like that.
I have actually been thinking of putting my spare in the back and remove the carrier. It blocks the view out the back in a big way. Especially when wheeling without side mirrors.
As for other's comments
Ha.
jstncse
Crawling over something
Don't quit posting. I spend my days in an office and my evenings unwinding on cars also. I'm not as good at posting my progress though.