Reviving a 2f from the woods

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This older, shorter belt would be so I can eliminate the alternator altogether for my test-run stand? I think I get it. The water pump turns so easily, even a loose belt would turn it.... I wonder if I could stretch a rubber snow chain snubber around it. Dang, it's worth a try! Wednesday night is when my wife is on the other end of the island doing her 24 hour eldercare shift so I rarely come in from the shop before midnight. I have the radiator on and all plumbed and the fan on. Cooling system is full (just water for now, pets and all) and just a little weeping fixed by re-tightening hose clamps. I have been running it for ten minutes at a time with no positive circulation but the thermostat has opened and head hasn't gotten hotter than 185, top rad tank about 160, bottom thank about 80. Some of the earlier John Deere tractors had no water pump at all. The system was a thermo siphon circulating through the radiator. I'm thinking they musta had a fan though. Just keeping my eye on the magic thermometer gun, but heading back out to find a short belt or a chain snubber.
 
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I'm sure that the water pump is a burden to budge at rpm. I put a plastic fan thru a metal radiator once, because I chose to ignore weak solder joints on the metal radiator (plastic aftermarket is so much better on my other rig). Get the correct belt, if there is one, and mount a bucket for a radiator. That whole area is pretty vulnerable, especially without fan shroud. Lets get a quick voltage regulator setup on the stand because, you'll need the amperage before long.
 
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I found an old delco-remy alternator of unknown origin that spins freely. With a couple of spacers I got it to line up. My rad is solidly mounted already and I don't usually run fan shrouds anyway. At this point I should be able to run it long enough for it to reach operating temp and run it through a few cycles with maybe some seafoam and or marvel mystery oil in the fuel, perhaps the oil too. The 2f in my blue jalopy had sat almost 20 years. It got started every couple of years and run for a couple miles. When I first started rehabbing it the compression numbers were about 20 lbs lower than they are now. I have driven it fairly hard for about 2000 miles and current numbers range from a low of 159 to a high of 170. Oil pressure is 70 down the road, 60 at hot idle. That's on a 196,000 mile '79 that has never been apart. I'm just hoping for a similar success with this '82 engine. Heck, I don't even have anything to put it in. Under tarps in a trailer in the woods, this engine would eventually end up at Skagit Steel for scrap with all my other treasures. After a week of 'after work' tinkering it should be a viable asset and I will note all the specifics with yellow junkyard paint pen on the bellhousing. All in all it has been a very satisfying experience and now I'm tempted to bolt the FJ 60 tranny transfer on the tail. I'm enjoying that thrill of getting some old thing running without being saddled with yet another vehicle I don't need. Ok, after work today I am gonna check the vaccuum and do a lean idle drop on this old critter. I will update with photos, maybe a video.
 
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No better treatment for these things than getting new valve stem seals installed - the only soft part other than the plugs and oil filter that seems to wear out. Shine a light thru the manifold holes in the head to see how bad the black cake has coated the top of the valves. Once these things breath without valve-caked carbon congestion, they perform - no need for engine conversion. But not much Marvel if you just let it work with time and miles. Outside of the engine bay, I'd totally pull the head, inspect the bores, look for silicone gasket bits stuck in the head's water passages, manually clean the valves, install new head gasket, and easily replace the valve stem seals. This would let you get an accurate compression reading, which probably isn't that important, as long as the pcv valve shows no excessive blow-by and the numbers are withing factory spec your good to go without any disassembly, and you can always replace the valve stem seals without pulling the head, later.
 
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Running cool at 180, vac gauge reads a very steady 19 with a used manifold gasket, no less. No smoke, no blowby witnessed. Hot oil pressure at a slow idle after 30 minute run is 50 psi. Been varying the speed and occasionaly shoot a blast of WD40 into the carb at fast idle. I have done this run stand thing on many used engines. Did it to a 1951 ford flathead inline six last fall. Ran so nice that it's in the green one ton 'parts truck' today. No longer a dead parts truck. Maybe I DO need a Toyota 'parts truck........
 

middlecalf

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Why not build one in parts? There was a 45 LWB frame someone had a bit ago, not sure if it’s still available. Then make a run up to BC for this, it’s not too far for you 😂 For Sale - Aussie Tray / Ute bed from an FJ45 / HJ45 pickup rare! Langley, BC - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/aussie-tray-ute-bed-from-an-fj45-hj45-pickup-rare-langley-bc.1295984/. Then find a skookum cab of some sorts, even a 45 cab 😉, drive train, etc etc. We‘ll be watching!
Dang it, That is a very cool bed. Are there some 16" splits lurking inside of those ragged bias ply snows? I can't go down that road.... Really I can't, I can't, I ca.....
 

fjwagon

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Doing a great job with the engine. I second the Seafoam, that stuff works wonders on carbs. I have tried dipping carbs and still have problems after... only to fix them later by running Saefoam. The only other thingI would do is give it some fresh oil and the typical check ups like valves tolerances, compression test...etc. and see if needs anything else. I have seen people run way worse engines on the highway.
 
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Thanks for all the votes of confidence. FJ, I plan to do all those things this weekend. I really should have changed the oil when I had it dangling from the forks on my skidsteer. But no, that woulda' been way too easy. Now it sits on its pan all plumbed up for fuel and water on a wood deck of a steel cart. I'm considering pumping it out with a suction pump like a boat. I should have a pump tank from servicing my old inboard boat if I can find it. At least the oil looks fairly clear. And I actually enjoy a good valve adjustment, it's almost fun when not hanging over a fender. Planning to make the trek to town this weekend (before noon on Saturday) to get the seafoam. I have a case of Delo 400 and a shelf with five or six spin on oil filters, 'brand new, not used'... I'm sure at least one of them is correct enough. The seafoam will be the first thing will have to buy for this project, although I did notice an almost full can of Kingsford charcoal lighter on the back porch. I will close with my Tech Question of the Evening, well, it's more than one. :
I still havent run a vacuum line to the distributor or to the diaphram on the choke apparatus. On a cold start I need full choke, but rpms are too high right at startup still. When warmed up it wont idle without the idle stop screw way in, so I screw it in. I have the Haynes diaper, well worn and a few other manuals etc. BUT...I can't adjust the choke because I don't know what year my carb is. I wrote 1977 on it years ago but don't recall ever having a '77. The manifolds are unknown as well. One piece exhaust mani with no end bolts. Another unknown is the distributor. It has a big cap, long rotor and strictly points and external condensor. Diaphram has one hookup for a hose. I will post up some pics a little later this evening. Numbers show in the pics. I will need to know where to pull vacuum from for the dizzy and the choke thingy. There are no tube connections on my insulator block and the two tubes flanking the idle mixture screw on the carb's base are either blocked or not passing through...?? They show no vacuum on my gauge. Sorry for such long posts, but I'm pretty into this thing right now. Thanks in advance, Gary
 

fjwagon

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Idling issue can be a lot of things. A vacuum leak. A vacuum leak at intake, carb base, hoses coming from the carb...etc. the carb itself maybe an issue. Seafoam help here. Take a several pics of the carb and post. Someone maybe able to ID it. Not sure if you have an egr valve on that engine. It should not be open at idle. Sometimes they carbon build up and stay in the open position.
 
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Idling issue can be a lot of things. A vacuum leak. A vacuum leak at intake, carb base, hoses coming from the carb...etc. the carb itself maybe an issue. Seafoam help here. Take a several pics of the carb and post. Someone maybe able to ID it. Not sure if you have an egr valve on that engine. It should not be open at idle. Sometimes they carbon build up and stay in the open position.
Thanks... Here's the carb and dizzy. It actually idles smoothly, pretty much the perfect idle. But with the choke pulled out for a start, this changes the idle to a Very fast idle. When I back the idle off so it doesn't race upon starting, it is then set too low for regular idle like at a stop light. (if we had one here). I think the diaphram on the carb that links to the choke (on the right side of first photo) compensates for this discrepency by adjusting idle speed between start and run. As far as the dizzy, I assume I just hook up the vacuum 'advance?'to any convienent source on the intake. Same for the choke control diaphram, I would think. Edit: In picture 2 at the carb base with the silicone tubing loop, both of those ports pull NO vaccuum at all. Perhaps wrong insulator block. I recall no holes at all on or in that block. Of course it's one I found in a box....

2F carb and manifold 1.jpg


2f carb and manifold 2.jpg


2F dizzy.jpg
 
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Thanks... Here's the carb and dizzy. It actually idles smoothly, pretty much the perfect idle. But with the choke pulled out for a start, this changes the idle to a Very fast idle. When I back the idle off so it doesn't race upon starting, it is then set too low for regular idle like at a stop light. (if we had one here). I think the diaphram on the carb that links to the choke (on the right side of first photo) compensates for this discrepency by adjusting idle speed between start and run. As far as the dizzy, I assume I just hook up the vacuum 'advance?'to any convienent source on the intake. Same for the choke control diaphram, I would think. Edit: In picture 2 at the carb base with the silicone tubing loop, both of those ports pull NO vaccuum at all. Perhaps wrong insulator block. I recall no holes at all on or in that block. Of course it's one I found in a box....

View attachment 3140053

View attachment 3140054

View attachment 3140055
Are you not adjusting the high idle screw circled in purple below?

78rearmarkd.jpg
 
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Are you not adjusting the high idle screw circled in purple below?

View attachment 3140204
Yes, I have been adjusting That screw along with the regular idle adjustment screw and the idle mixture screw. That screw you have circled is the wild card for me while adjusting. It is obviously directly connected to the choke apparatus. I think it's the Haynes that describes pulling choke knob fully and putting a screwdriver or similar into the choke plate. Then start engine and adjust. I'm sure the diaphram on the left side of your photo just needs to be hooked up to vacuum. I don't have any small vaccuum line fittings on my intake so I may make some out of pipe plugs with a piece of steel vaccuum line sealed with JB Weld. As you can see in my photo I reamed out the fitting for the PCV valve to accept the McMaster silicone tubing on it's O.D. That was just so I could hook up my vaccuum gauge. I'm an idle freak. I Never quit til something ticks over like a watch. No stumble, no hiccups. Never gave a rat's ass about top end performance. A good example of my idle sickness is seen on a video some tourist took of me running my 1912 Stover 2200 lb 8 hp gas stationary engine at about 75 rpm. I happened upon it on youtube. Not sure how to link. '1912 8 hp stover hit and miss engine'
 
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What is that? Distributor clamp?
Sure! Well it's a fender washer with a flat spot ground off that provides some friction to stop random movement. I tried to find a turnbuckle in my junk to attach to the side of the dizzy and a fixed point on the block. That way the timing can be 'dialed in'.
 
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Hi, Thoght it was funny where all your spare parts were. Mine are outside ,in the attic in the garage in Texas .Then they are in Arkansas in the attic under the portico and out in the barn and out back in the field. How are you cooling the 2f when you run it?
 
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Oops I see now your photo with the circles is set up a bit different than mine, but they must do the same thing. It's the orange one that hooks into the choke system. I have now run about 3 gallons of nice non-ethanol gas I stole from my kid's boat through this engine. (payback is hell, son).
2f op and vac.jpg
2f op and vac.jpg
I hooked up a starter switch and an ignition switch from my random switch drawer. Less arcing of loose wires that way. I got a photo of it idling about 700 rpm with 19 inches vacuum and 50 psi oil Pressure. Then for the Money test I shut her down for a compression test. The gauge sitting on the radiator shows the lowest reading, the 176. Heck, it might be 177, but Like I said, I don't wanna church it up. There was no oil added to any cylinders, no Tom Foolery of any kind. I just got lucky! Throttle was wired open and engine had been shut down just prior to testing. Somebody please remind me to unwire that thing.

2f compression.jpg
 

fjwagon

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Nice, so you said you have clean oil even after you you ran the until thermostat opened, you have not mentioned no arcing or back firing which is all good news. The compression readings are definitely good readings consideringit was almost abandoned in the woods. Sometimes you can have good oil but still have blown gasket between cylinders and not know until you have a loss of power. One thing I look for is check a "never started engine" and once it's started is look for bubbling of antifreeze out of the radiator with cap off. Start a cold engine and wait for the thermostat to open. Once it opens antifreeze should not be bubbling out. I doubt this the case, you don't have other symptoms that would suggest this.

Squirt wd-40 at the base of the intake and head, idle should not increase. If it does this could one the problems why idling is not right. But it almost sounds like you more than one issue causing your engine to have idling issue.

So if carb is from a 77 model, it has a fuel cutoff idle selenoid and should be active when the engine is running. It has an O ring at the end and sometimes they break.

Starting the engine with an active choke is not necessary especially if it has recently been started and/or the engine is not super cold. Check the site glass and the level before and while engine is running. Do a bird's eye and check how well the accelerator pump squirts in the barrel with engine off. The primary barrel is circuit it uses to get the engine to idle. This is why running seafoam may be helpful with the least amount of work. If it works, great you are done. :) anyhow, the secondary diaphragm really comes into play when you accelerate the engine on the road for but i still will check it. It's the one has the "77 USA" written on it. I would do a poor man's carb cleaning, get brass wire brush and carb cleaner, eye protection, and disposable nitrile or neoprene gloves. Clean the exterior, and remove the carb. Blow carb cleaner through the orifices. Remove the idle adjustment screw and squit carb cleaner though orifice. Run it if you still have problems you have clean out the fuel bowl. Be careful not ruin the gasket here.

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