Removing the fan in the winter

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ozarkmud

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It seems like conversion to electric fans is popular to improve gas mileage by some degree. This does require procuring a fan, and a suitable setup for the Landcruiser may be challenging.

Now for primarily highway driving in the winter, couldn't one run without the fan? Has anyone tried this?

I am curious what kind of efficiency improvement there is. Even when cold, the fan clutch definitely has some drag and takes some effort to turn by hand. I imagine it's significant at 1,000+ RPM.

I figure this applies equally to 3FE and 1FZ-FE.
 
ozarkmud said:
Now for primarily highway driving in the winter, couldn't one run without the fan? Has anyone tried this?
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Why would you even risk that? You would always be 5 minutes away from blowing a HG. The 1FZ-FE is notoriously known for blowing HGs.

The dash coolant temperature gauge has just really 3 positions due to the way Toyota designed it: Cold, Warm, Hot and the head gasket just blew.

There are fans/shrouds that fit close enough, like from Derale but then you would need to upgrade your stock alternator to drive it. Look in the V8 swap thread to see what people have done.

I would think you would be in it for about $800-$1,000 for fan, fan controller, and upgraded alternator. Or that money could pay for a few fill ups instead.
 
ozarkmud said:
It seems like conversion to electric fans is popular to improve gas mileage by some degree. This does require procuring a fan, and a suitable setup for the Landcruiser may be challenging.

Now for primarily highway driving in the winter, couldn't one run without the fan? Has anyone tried this?

I am curious what kind of efficiency improvement there is. Even when cold, the fan clutch definitely has some drag and takes some effort to turn by hand. I imagine it's significant at 1,000+ RPM.

I figure this applies equally to 3FE and 1FZ-FE.
Click to expand...
Your in the wrong hobby if you're worried about gaining 2 or 3 mpg..
 
Semi-relevant n=1 observation: I’ve done this about 20 years ago, in my 1985 K5 Blazer - electric fans replacing the stock clutch fan. Lots of space under the hood, 4-barrel carb on an emissions-throttled 350 - so, not the pressure cooker/ high heat environment of the 1FZ in an 80. There was a perceived - but not measured! - increase in power (of course, right… there had to be 🙂), and a very noticeable decrease in engine noise. I really liked how quiet the truck had become. Mileage was a bit better but not by much. And it was all fun and games until the mount for the temperature sensor failed… idling in the driveway, fans didn’t kick in, I caught it at 245F, cooled it down with the garden hose :hillbilly:, put the stock fan back in, and motored right on. That engine is still in the truck 🙂, so is one of the electric fans, as auxiliary that either comes on with a switch, or when the A/C is on.
 
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Neither my FJ80 nor FZJ80 have ever shown any signs of overheating, provided they have enough coolant.

Is this a bad idea because under normal circumstances of 45F and often much colder winter weather, they would overheat? Or is it a bad idea because I am likely to make a mistake and let it idle too long?

I understand the 1FZ is prone to headgasket failure. Is it really going to be that much more likely in this scenario?

I wasn't thinking about installing an electric fan -- I just wondered about trying this for the winter. I'm not planning to tow heavy on slow, technical hill climbs like this. I also don't do a lot of extended idling, other than to defrost the windows.

I'm thinking about on vehicles with electric fans, how seldomly they come on. They make sense for A/C, or hot idling, but I don't really remember hearing them turn on in the cold. And the rest of the time, the clutch fan is a parasitic draw offering no value. I understand it's the safest and simplest option to just leave it. Certainly the most reliable setup. It just seems like one might be able to pull a fan for a winter, and put it back diligently before it's nearling time for A/C.
 
Most newer vehicles have at least two fans at least one of them is running 90% of the time.. you won’t notice the fans on until both kick in.

I believe you’re significantly overestimating any perceived benefits.
 
ozarkmud said:
Is this a bad idea because under normal circumstances of 45F and often much colder winter weather, they would overheat? Or is it a bad idea because I am likely to make a mistake and let it idle too long?
Click to expand...

By the time the Toyota temp gauge begins to move, it is probably already too late.

But, you do you, and try it. :popcorn:
 
love my dual electric fan setup, i spent a couple years retrofitting electric fans on my 91 and i have nothing but good things to say about it. I also wired it to my switch pod so i can switch them off during water crossings and winter wheeling when the rig is struggle to get up to temp. Mine is running off a PWM fan controller so the fans are running simultaneously and adjust the speed indefinitely and they are super quiet. The drawback is that you will need to upgrade to a high output alternator and wirings, etc. My elec. fans are pushing about 4-5000cfm and it is comparable to my modified fan clutch with 10k oil. The AC is definitely much improved during slow speed traffic as the fans will ramp up 60% when AC is engaged and no need to add an aux, fan to keep it cool...
one of the main reason why i went thru the trouble of switching to elec. fans is not because of the additional cooling, but i have had 2 instances where my mechanical fans took out my radiator and shroud, both times when i was out wheeling, one time in the Rubicon and had me stranded for a couple days. I am not going to get into that with more details, but having owning both setups, if you are not experiencing what i had experienced, stick with the factory mechanical fans, they do pull a lot of air. Anyways, my .02.


cheers
ML
 
Now for primarily highway driving in the winter, couldn't one run without the fan? Has anyone tried this?
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In our country people doing this in north regions, where the temperature continuously goes down below the 0F (-20C), AND MOSTLY for DIESEL engines, which have much higher volumetric efficiency compared to gasoline engines. As a result, it is very hard to heat it up and support at least worm temperature of the motor. So, people install Webasto, take off the fans, install the firewall in front of radiators, use the special car-blankets on top of the motors. BUT, I would NEVER do that on 1FZ-FE, since it generates a lot of heat, especially while idling. It doesn't make any sense to rick so much to get the mystic 0.5HP. What is your region? Alaska?
 
ChaseTruck said:
There was a perceived - but not measured! - increase in power (of course, right… there had to be 🙂), and a very noticeable decrease in engine noise.
Click to expand...

Some electric fans in modern vehicles are every bit as noisy as an engine fan IMO

They still need engine power to drive them via the alternator, so still produce some load on the engine
 
ozarkmud said:
Neither my FJ80 nor FZJ80 have ever shown any signs of overheating, provided they have enough coolant.

Is this a bad idea because under normal circumstances of 45F and often much colder winter weather, they would overheat? Or is it a bad idea because I am likely to make a mistake and let it idle too long?

I understand the 1FZ is prone to headgasket failure. Is it really going to be that much more likely in this scenario?

I wasn't thinking about installing an electric fan -- I just wondered about trying this for the winter. I'm not planning to tow heavy on slow, technical hill climbs like this. I also don't do a lot of extended idling, other than to defrost the windows.

I'm thinking about on vehicles with electric fans, how seldomly they come on. They make sense for A/C, or hot idling, but I don't really remember hearing them turn on in the cold. And the rest of the time, the clutch fan is a parasitic draw offering no value. I understand it's the safest and simplest option to just leave it. Certainly the most reliable setup. It just seems like one might be able to pull a fan for a winter, and put it back diligently before it's nearling time for A/C.
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Seriously, what do you hope to gain? A tiny bit more power? It won't be enough that you can honestly identify the difference.

Do some googling, I'm sure with enough digging you could find estimated parasitic power loss due to an engine fan. It won't be much fully engaged, even less when free spinning.
My memory ( from magazines 30+ years ago) for a fixed blade engine fan, its in the 5-10hp range. That's FIXED blade, not clutched hub.


I had a car that would barely stay at operating temperature when i was working in the mountains in winter.
In that scenario, the fan is going to be as completely disengaged as the fluid coupling will let it be. Aka, almost no load on the engine.

That particular vehicle, I covered 2/3 of the radiator with a plastic sheet so the heater would work during winter. I had to remember to remove the plastic when I went home and was at sea level on the weekends.
 
@ozarkmud

I believe the head gasket failures is due to frequency of the engine getting up to 220F+ coolant temperatures. The iron block and the aluminum head expands at different rates so the higher the temperature gets the larger the expansion coefficient, this causes more movement thus wear on the headgasket.

The fan clutch may seem to be always turning but a properly working one only rotates about 600 rpm regardless of the engine RPM. Once the thermostat senses hot air through the radiator around 190F or so it will start engaging the fan to pull more air through. On cold conditions where coolant temperatures is around 185-190F the fan is mostly disengage.
 
ozarkmud said:
Is this a bad idea because under normal circumstances of 45F and often much colder winter weather, they would overheat? Or is it a bad idea because I am likely to make a mistake and let it idle too long?
Click to expand...
I'm going to elaborate on my previous statement.

Both the 3FE and 1FZ-FE will never stay cool without a properly operating cooling system.
I use the term "system" because it is not just a bunch of parts thrown together. Each individual part of the "system" has to work together in order to maintain proper operating temperatures under various environmental and operating conditions.
Radiator, fan shroud, fan, fan clutch, coolant, radiator cap, overflow bottle, thermostat, hoses, and proper belt tension all must be working together.
And as an added note, 45F is not cold.

If you've spent any time at all on this forum, you've no doubt seen and read the 100s of posts regarding a fan clutch. From those posts one should be able to deduce that a weak or failing fan clutch will have a detrimental effect on the proper cooling of an engine at ANY speed.
This is due to the fact that an 80 Series is as aerodynamic as a brick. At highway speeds there is a significant bow wave of high pressure in front of the vehicle that causes the majority of air to flow AROUND the truck. The engine cooling fan produces low pressure behind the radiator allowing air to flow through it.

Removal of the fan is an enormously bad idea.
 
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