Pertronix in, won't start

[bajaphile]

Bought a Pertronix flame thrower coil and ignitor from Marksoffroad.

Followed the simple directions.

1) Ignition wire, hot when key in ON position goes to + side of coil.
2) Red wire from Pertronix to + on coil
3) Black wire from Pertronix to - on coil


Coil becomes warm when ON position.

Cranks but doesn't turn over. What the hell is going on? Checked that the wire that goes into the coil is in tightly. I installed this yesterday and have been working on it for another 2 hours, still can't get anything!?

 

[cruiserbrett]

how long did you leave it on without running? While I havent had a problem with my original pertronix in nearly 8 years, other report that leaving the key on while the engine is not running will kill the pertronix...

do you get any spark? hows the timing?

 

[bajaphile]

I read when I first got it not to leave it on very long. I've only left it on for about a minute to check warmth and checking the spark from grounding the (-), meaning that I am getting power to the coil (from Pin_Heads directions from another post).

As far as a spark from the coil to the dizzy, I don't know a simple method of checking that. I was thinking about having a friend crank the engine and use a timing light to see if there was anything. Any other way to check that?

So my wiring sounds correct? The unit also came with a small black wire with two ring terminals, the directions never said anything about it, so I left it out. Since I got the Pertronix Coil, I took off my ballast resistor.

I noticed that the wire when ON position is reading about .5V below battery voltage. Would this cause any problems?

Lastly, timing is right on the dot when I had my points installed...

 

[Pin_Head]

As far as a spark from the coil to the dizzy, I don't know a simple method of checking that.

.

You turn the key on.
You pull the center wire from the distributor and place it about 1/4 inch from the block.
You jump across the two large lugs on the starter motor to crank it.
You peek at the wire gap while cranking.
Spark or no spark?

It doesn't get much easier.

 

[bajaphile]

You turn the key on.
You pull the center wire from the distributor and place it about 1/4 inch from the block.
You jump across the two large lugs on the starter motor to crank it.
You peek at the wire gap while cranking.
Spark or no spark?

It doesn't get much easier.

Christ, I must be a dumb ass...

The starter just threw a huge arc, made a weird wurring noise when I tried to jump the lugs. If I turn the key, it works fine...but, there's noone here to turn the key for me while I look for a spark. Eh.

 

[Dirtsquirt]

you got a good ground to the distributor?

sometimes there is ground wire inside the dist. that is attached to the plate.
this may not apply to a LC but heh!

 

[bajaphile]

Nope, I have no ground to the distributor. It wasn't mentioned in the instructions. However, I have a little black wire with a screw that I could use to ground the plate to. Maybe I'll try it just in case.

 

[Coolerman]

Yep ground the dizzy, it sure won't hurt it.

Also you can attach the coil wire to a spark plug to see the spark...

No need to have someone crank for you, all you need to do is make up a wire that clips to the starter wire going to the key switch (Black wire with White stripe, may look like black wire with yellow stripe.). Then to crank just touch that wire to the battery. If you want to get fancy put a momentary switch in line so you can just push the button to crank it.

 

[tlc_4play]

My 2F Pertronix and Flamethrower coil came with instructions that it was only to be used with a ballast resistor connected in series with the coil - this acts as a current limiter.

With some coils, if you leave the ignition on for long periods without the motor ticking over (pulsing) then this can lead to overheating and eventually coil failure.

 

[bajaphile]

Yes, I read that as well. However, reading through old posts, Mark said himself that every unit he has sold, was for use WITHOUT a ballast resistor.

Another question: I was reading through my FSM to make sure the coil was hooked up properly (better to check 10 times..hehe), and I was wondering:

Do I need to keep the metal "dust cover" on underneath the rotor and above the pertronix, or is that supposed to be left off?!!

 

[Dirtsquirt]

The plot thickens

In the case of my FJ and the installation of pertronix unit.
The manual said 12v to perky I checked and sure enough
there was no factory ballast..12v. Which led me to assume
that the stock coil or more to the point the coil on my unit
had the "Internal Resistor"

If you statement re: the flamethrower, said you must use
a ballast resistor. then if you unit is anything like my unit, and has
none. Then you need to buy a ballast resistor. Old mopars had
a cool looking ceramic one you could mount on the dash.

its possible the flamethrower has been damaged by 12v instead of the near 6 v you would get with a ballast resistor.

You could also remove both the black and red leads that go to the perky. Leaving the hot lead that supplies the 12v to the coil. and connect a small wire to the ground terminal of the coil.
Pull the center wire to the dist. out of the dist. so you have a wire attached to the coil insert a screwdriver in the end of the lead.
place it close but no touch .. so you can see the spark jump the gap. (dont ground it near any electronics)
no if you touch the wire you earlier attached to the negative side of the coil to ground for a very short duration and remove you should get a spark.
The last paragraph can be used if you cant find someone to crank for you,

Good luck. these things are an adventure arent they!

 

[Herb]

Do you have gas in the tank?

I farted around with all kinds of ignition problems...only to find out that I didn't have any fuel. DOH!

 

[bajaphile]

Well, Ill try using the little grounding wire and see what happens. Of course, I was looking around, and I couldn't really find anywhere to ground it to on the inside of the distributor housing.

Yes, there is gas in the tank!

The - side of the coil will spark when momentarily grounded when the coil is ON.

As far as the ballast resistor, I had one with my stock coil, but, I have read that I was NOT supposed to use it, that was from Mark on here. I trieed calling him by the way, but he's on vacation.

Thanks for any other help. I don't understand what the hell could be going on here... :/

 

[Pin_Head]

Spark or no spark?

You can jump between the top big lug and the spade lug (black wire, white stripe) to crank the engine.

The type of coil determines whether it needs a ballast resistor or not. The distributor/ignitor has nothing to do with it. If you had a ballast resistor on the coil, it needs it.

Attach the power wire for the ignitor to the key side of the resistor, not the coil side.

 

[bajaphile]

Haven't been able to test to see if there was a spark coming into the dizzy yet. Im at work right now.

I'll test for that.

I bought the Pertronix coil, with the pertronix unit, and reading said that even if I had a ballast resistor on the stock coil, I was supposed to remove it when I installed the new coil.

As for the previous wiring...I had two wires coming from the vehicle to the ballast resistor...One that was 12v when "ON" and one that is about 6v. They attached to opposite sides of the resistor. I tried using both on the + side of the coil, and both didn't do anything different.

So If I'm getting a spark when grounding the (-) of the coil momentarily, that means I AM getting power to the coil, right? But, it doesn't necessarily mean there is also a high voltage from the center?

 

[Downey]

I've heard too many different stories:
(a) that some Landcruisers have a ballast resistor built into the wiring harness. If so, which year models?
(b) that the ballast resistor attached onto the side of some coils must be used with the Pertronix?
(c) that a Pertronics coil has a built-in resistor, thus an external resistor is not required?
(d) and finally, the Downey customer who burnt up a Protronix because he did not use a ballast resistor?

If anybody gets this figured out, I'd sure like to know the answer!!!!

 

[bajaphile]

Me too!!

I have an OEM external resistor attached to the coil. I was told not to use the resistor with the new coil though.

 

[Pin_Head]

It helps makes sense if you understand the purpose of the ballast resistor.

The ballast resistor allows the use of a coil that produces the same output spark voltage at a lower input voltage. Basically, you use a coil that is designed to operate at 6-8V with a 12V system.

The reason this is useful is that you bypass the resistor only during engine start up when the battery voltage drops to 6-8V due to the huge amount of current used to run the starter motor. This makes cold start up more reliable.

Running a low voltage coil at 12V causes it to overheat and burn up, so they use the ballast resistor to drop the voltage the coil sees to 6-8V under normal running conditions. That is why you need a resistor for a resistor type coil. 12V coils are built to operate at 12V and they don't use a resistor.

I'm not sure the exact years they were used, but I have seen them on 72-78 Cruisers. I think that this was used longer in cold climates.

A ballast resistor and coil without the starter bypass wire serves no useful purpose that a regular 12V coil without the resistor won't do.

 

[bajaphile]

Well, I got home, and I am NOT getting spark from the coil. I tried grounding the side which goes to the dizzy to the block, and nothing.

So, if I'm getting 12v current to the new coil, and I'm getting a spark from the (-) when grounded, but, no spark from the coil, whats this mean?

 

[Dirtsquirt]

Bummer

If

1. the key is on
2 both of the leads to the perky in your dist are disconnected
3 The positive lead is connected to the coil
4 the lead from the coil is disconnected at the Dist
5 said lead has a spark plug or screw driver shoved in it
6 the screw driver is almost touching an engine part.. ie: ground
7 You have a lead temporarily connected to the ground on the coil
8 you momentarily touch the ground lead to a ground. and release
Not do not keep it grounded as you could burn out your coil if
you do.
9 you see spark from the ground lead you are grounding..
10a. you see spark jump from the screwdriver. (coil is likely good)
10b. you see no spark from the screwdriver coil is burnt open on the secondary side
10c you see no spark from the screwdriver and you see no spark from the ground lead.. your primary is burnt open.

all this assumes there is 12v to the + of the coil.. hench the key being on