Panhard and Steering Wobble? (Fingers Crossed!)

[NewbieMcNewster]

So I've had some significant wobble in my steering wheel for a long time, usually between 30-40 mph. It used to be full on death wobble, but after replacing a bunch of other junk, that has mostly gone away in the worst sense. But it still wobbles quite a lot, basically all the time. Why did I replace a bunch of other junk rather than the panhard bushings? Because for YEARS I've been asking shops to replace the panhard bushings, and they've poked at the panhard with a pry bar and told me they're fine.

So I finally went and just took the dang thing off myself and I'm going to press out and replace the bushings to see if it fixes things. This will be my first bushings job, so I'm honestly not sure how bad these are, but they look pretty bad to me... I'm really hoping that this will finally fix that steering wobble!!! Anyway, take a look at these bushings and let me know if I'm crazy or if these are shot and replacing them should help a lot with steering wobble - s***'s been driving me crazy for YEARS. I will update once I've replaced the bushings and reinstalled the bar, with whether or not things are fixed or at least significantly improved...

Fun tip for anyone removing your panhard bar - crank the wheels to passenger, and it makes everything so much easier. I couldn't get a breaker bar on the frame side at all before cranking the wheel, and on the axle side the bolt came most of the way out and immediately got its head stuck against the tie rod. Cranking the wheel made plenty of clearance for both issues.

LCA bushings are also on the menu in the near future to try to finish tightening things up in the front end, along with the knuckle job, and eventually motor, trans, and body mounts... Maybe some day she'll drive like a Lexus again...

 

[Rusty Marlin]

They're blown.
Do you have a lift on the rig? Have you corrected your caster if the answer is Yes?
Have you checked the Radius arm bushings?
Have you inspected the welds on the Panhard mounts at the frame, looking for cracks?
Have you inspected the frame around the steering box looking for cracks?
See this post.

Thread 'Cracked Frame'

Mar 15, 2009

I found a crack on the frame rail between the steering box and the drag link mount, about 2.5 inches long. I haven't driven the truck in 3 years and don't know when I did this. Now I'm rebuilding my 80 and found this... I hope my parts truck has a straight frame!

• donutfj80
• Replies: 53
• Forum: 80-Series Tech

 

[NewbieMcNewster]

They're blown.
Do you have a lift on the rig? Have you corrected your caster if the answer is Yes?
Have you checked the Radius arm bushings?
Have you inspected the welds on the Panhard mounts at the frame, looking for cracks?
Have you inspected the frame around the steering box looking for cracks?
See this post.

Thread 'Cracked Frame'

Mar 15, 2009

I found a crack on the frame rail between the steering box and the drag link mount, about 2.5 inches long. I haven't driven the truck in 3 years and don't know when I did this. Now I'm rebuilding my 80 and found this... I hope my parts truck has a straight frame!

• donutfj80
• Replies: 53
• Forum: 80-Series Tech

Gonna respond separately with the outcome (it freakin worked!! Bwahahaha!!), but to answer these (because they are very good points for anyone else finding this post when looking for help): The rig is lifted about 3.5". Yes, it has Slee caster correction plates. I have not checked the radius arm (lower control arm) bushings yet, but I do plan on doing those soon. The frame mount for the panhard is solid. I have not checked around the steering box on the frame, but I suspect it's fine because the panhard seems to have solved it!!!

 

[NewbieMcNewster]

IT WORKED!!! It's been so long, and I can't believe how many shops I have specifically asked to do this, and who have told me that it didn't need to be done, and then replaced something else like tie rods (to be fair, this thing does seem to eat tie rods) or a steering stabilizer, or told me that I just have to remove the spacers (which I've done and didn't make a difference). It's wild that I had to do this myself after offering others money for it so many times...

But it worked! Or at least, the quick shakedown drive after reinstallation of the panhard seems to show basically none of the wobbling/shaking in the wheel that has been torturing me for years. We will have to see if anything rears its head under braking from speed, or any of the other situations where it sometimes comes up. But at least in normal driving, it's better!

Still gonna do the other stuff. Again, I want this thing to drive like a Lexus again. LCA bushings, motor mounts, trans mount, body mounts, eventually the rear suspension bushings (because why not). But what a huge relief this is. Now I can tear into the knuckles, and once that's done and I've replaced all the fluids I should be a lot more confident out there. I've had this thing for almost 10 years, and now that it's only sibling is a reliable daily I can finally focus on it and do the things I should've done years ago - like baselining a lot of fluids. It's gonna be lovely when I'm done. Just kidding, we all know that it'll never be "done". Thanks to Mud as always for all the help!

 

[Broski]

Most shop don’t know this rigs !!
You can count on most every rubber bushing to be shot as these rig are now 25-30 years old.
When you get them all replaced the ride will be noticeable better

 

[jonheld]

^^^^^^^This right here^^^^^^^^
After 30 years those rubber parts don't owe you anything more.
I replaced ALL suspension bushings along with all new OEM hardware torqued properly according to the FSM.
It made a remarkable difference in feel and handling and is well worth the cost of admission.

 

[NewbieMcNewster]

Thanks guys. Yeah, I'm pretty psyched on replacing the rubber... Gotta say though, pressing the bushings out and in was a huge PITA... Mad props to my neighbor who offered to help, and surprised me by in fact being a former metalworker and automotive fabricator. Getting the bushes out worked alright once we machined the appropriate sized piece of steel (aluminum pipe was deforming- yikes!) and extended the arm on the bottle jack component of the shop press, but getting them in SUCKED. Those suckers did NOT want to go in straight. We got one to go in straight eventually on the fourth or fifth try, but the second one required two rounds of "correction" in a bench vise to get it straightened out enough to go in correctly. I was worried we would damage the bushing, but it seemed to take it well. Still, hoping that it's easier on the others when I get around to them.

Anyone got tips on how to align things in the shop press so that the new bushings go in straight on the first try (or relatively few tries)? I was thinking that the fact that the panhard and bushing both had chamfered edges actually made things more difficult, but trying to press it into the non-chamfered side got the same result (cocked off to one side instead of going in straight)

Another fun fact - Slee won't sell you replacement longer bolts for the axle side LCA bushings (necessary because of the additional metal thickness from the correction plates), so I won't be able to go full OEM with the hardware replacement. But I figure if I find some grade 8 steel in the right size (their literature at least gives that - 16M x 90mm x 1.5 if anyone is curious) it'll be fine.

 

[Broski]

Thanks guys. Yeah, I'm pretty psyched on replacing the rubber... Gotta say though, pressing the bushings out and in was a huge PITA... Mad props to my neighbor who offered to help, and surprised me by in fact being a former metalworker and automotive fabricator. Getting the bushes out worked alright once we machined the appropriate sized piece of steel (aluminum pipe was deforming- yikes!) and extended the arm on the bottle jack component of the shop press, but getting them in SUCKED. Those suckers did NOT want to go in straight. We got one to go in straight eventually on the fourth or fifth try, but the second one required two rounds of "correction" in a bench vise to get it straightened out enough to go in correctly. I was worried we would damage the bushing, but it seemed to take it well. Still, hoping that it's easier on the others when I get around to them.

Anyone got tips on how to align things in the shop press so that the new bushings go in straight on the first try (or relatively few tries)? I was thinking that the fact that the panhard and bushing both had chamfered edges actually made things more difficult, but trying to press it into the non-chamfered side got the same result (cocked off to one side instead of going in straight)

Another fun fact - Slee won't sell you replacement longer bolts for the axle side LCA bushings (necessary because of the additional metal thickness from the correction plates), so I won't be able to go full OEM with the hardware replacement. But I figure if I find some grade 8 steel in the right size (their literature at least gives that - 16M x 90mm x 1.5 if anyone is curious) it'll be fine.

@TRAIL TAILOR sells a bushing press kit that for every bushing on you 80.
You could buy that and I’m sure you could sell it when you done.
We did it at a friend’s without much drama. Not sure why you guys were having a hard time.

 

[CJK]

I’ve been through a recent death wobble debacle myself and replaced nearly everything in the steering system. As Borat would say “it was loose like wizard’s sleeve”.

I would remove spacers if I were you. They amplified my problems due to my wheels being hub centric but the spidertrax spacers not having a hub to center the wheels. My issue was about 45-55 mph.

If you need any parts, Serra Toyota is doing an additional 25% off for the next few weeks. They have the best prices within the US.