Overheated in Death Valley

[Dave 2000]

Heres the update. I have been running 100% tap water since my engine rebuild 2 yrs ago. Could be why i overheated too doh.

I think you have answered your own question my friend. 100% water is probably the worse thing you could have ever done. Even with plain water and 'water wetter' it would have made no odds, your cooling system is more likely corroded up. with water deposits/calcium et all.

Antifreeze is not just about freeze protection, it has inhibitors as well. Cast iron block/alloy head add some water and you have an electrolytic solution, made worse by the engine block acting as an earth for electrical components. If you are going to do it properly I suggest pulling the radiator, thermostat, flush block and heater through in all directions, new stat and cap regardless of age, either replace rad or have it rodded (not for me) refill with 50/50 distilled water/antifreeze.

Re the fan coupling, I would say check and replace/upgrade if you think it is suspect. I will leave that discussion to others as I am a true believer of electric fans

(Dave inserts cheeky picture of his Jag engine with twin electric fans )

Throw a handful of peanuts under the bonnet and none will reach the floor it is that tight under there, sorry just showing off.

regards

Dave

 

[ARB777]

Point taken. I would eventually do all those. I just dont have the time. Hopefully its not corroded to the point where i would keep on having problems. But lets say its corroded bad, wouldnt my drain look nasty and gunky? When i drained the radiator, the water that came out was fairly clean.

Nice jag.

 

[Dave 2000]

Point taken. I would eventually do all those. I just dont have the time. Hopefully its not corroded to the point where i would keep on having problems. But lets say its corroded bad, wouldnt my drain look nasty and gunky? When i drained the radiator, the water that came out was fairly clean.

Nice jag.

The reason the water comes out nice and clean normally means the calcium deposits are stuck inside the radiator. If you can beg/steal or borrow a 'bore scope' you may be able to look into the radiator and look at the cooling tubes from the hose connections. It may be enough to sway your decision as the route to go. Your water in your area may be soft and you have got away with it but if the cooling system is clean you now need to look harder for the overheating cause, perhaps the fan coupling went bad?

Thanks for Jag comment, been sold now, and was the best car I have ever owned........ever.

regards

Dave

 

[ARB777]

The reason the water comes out nice and clean normally means the calcium deposits are stuck inside the radiator. If you can beg/steal or borrow a 'bore scope' you may be able to look into the radiator and look at the cooling tubes from the hose connections. It may be enough to sway your decision as the route to go. Your water in your area may be soft and you have got away with it but if the cooling system is clean you now need to look harder for the overheating cause, perhaps the fan coupling went bad?

Thanks for Jag comment, been sold now, and was the best car I have ever owned........ever.

regards

Dave

Thanks dave. Id probably lean towards the fan clutch for now until it gives me further problems or have more time to spare to do the correct flush. Whichever comes first. Sorry to hear about your jag. The HDJ 80 was best vehicle we have owned. Loved that diesel sound. Sold it. Thats why I got another one. Unfortunately only 3fe or 1fz is available here in the US.

 

[Rwhat]

I highly doubt you had 100% water. If you did you would be draining a s*** load of rusty water out.

You might have a eaton clutch. 10k CST in my opinion is wasting your time. Might as well jump to minimum 15k with a temp mod.

As far as Dave2000 I think the diesel and the 1FZ might be different animals when it comes to cooling. How fast was the Jag on the strip?

 

[Dave 2000]

I highly doubt you had 100% water. If you did you would be draining a s*** load of rusty water out.

You might have a eaton clutch. 10k CST in my opinion is wasting your time. Might as well jump to minimum 15k with a temp mod.

As far as Dave2000 I think the diesel and the 1FZ might be different animals when it comes to cooling. How fast was the Jag on the strip?

Unsure if the difference is significant enough to affect cooling, at the end of the day you need to exchange heat from the water to the air, I managed in the Jag why would the 1FZ be any different. Anyway, if want you read all about the electric cooling fan (bearing in mind that Toyota fitted one as an addition for hot countries) the info and figures (yawn) are in my thread, link in sig.

Jag eventually run 13's with the five speed manual gearbox, and a line lock in the ashtray no doubt helped , weighing in around 4,200 Ibs it was not too shabby. Nice as a DD, leave work, drive to the strip and race, no emptying the spare and tool box out!

regards

Dave

 

[ARB777]

I highly doubt you had 100% water. If you did you would be draining a s*** load of rusty water out.

You might have a eaton clutch. 10k CST in my opinion is wasting your time. Might as well jump to minimum 15k with a temp mod.

As far as Dave2000 I think the diesel and the 1FZ might be different animals when it comes to cooling. How fast was the Jag on the strip?

Yes i had 100% water. The block was rebuilt too. So when we pieced everything back together it was completely dry. My dad is used to just putting tap water and he insisted to do just that on this one. Reading now about corrosion and bad effects of 100% water, I realized we have been doing this wrong for decades. However, mine drained considerably clear water yesterday before i swapped out with prestone.

 

[Dave 2000]

In Spain it is rare to actually see 'neat' antifreeze, you purchase it already mixed, choose your colour and the freeze protection you want and that is that. This guarantees the amount of water V antifreeze V coolant V corrosion inhibitor is correct.

regards

Dave

 

[Cruzerman]

I see nothing wrong with running straight distilled water and some water wetter. It too has "inhibitors" and should provide the best cooling.

 

[rc51kid]

The factory gauge is not always accurate to small variations. But with yours moving THAT much i would assume it was right and things are wrong with your coolant system. I would ultimately count on a COMPLETE coolant system change but let hope for the best. This is why. Every part of your coolant system needs to work 100%, from you $400 radiator to your $8 thermostat or $3 hoses. If any one of those fails then you destroy your entire motor and are left stranded. When you look at it like that a coolant system overhaul is kind of cheap.

Any part of the system that is 20 years old NEEDS to be replaced, including the heater valve and every hose. They probably wont fix your problem but will fail soon leaving you stuck with a cooked motor. The parts are not that expensive.
every hose $150ish
heater valve $80
water pump $150??
thermostat $10
Radiator (the big $$ item) $400

considering what we spend on a bumper or something this is not a big cost.

Personally i would drain the whole system, again and flush it like hell, multiple times. Dont forget to drain both the block and radiator. If you didnt pull the block drain that is why you didnt not have gotten enough coolant in it. Then also be sure to run it with the heater turned up all the way to get the air out of the system.

Then after a LOT of flushing i would fill it with distilled water and run it for a while. Maybe a day or two then drain again. That is when i would
start replacing parts. since you have all the coolant out if your hoses are old just replace them all, get the OEM "kit" from CDan or Beno. Not expensive and you will have it in an half a day. Then do the other cheap critical part the thermostat. If your water pump is old replace that. The fan clutch oil is also a very good suggestion. But here is the thing. Once the fan clutch is out and the coolant is drained it is only about 6 bolts the swap the water pump. Do the fan clutch and water pump at the same time.

Ultimately i think you are going to find you need a new radiator. Sorry to say that. But i think that is what it will come to. You cooling system is working well at light loads. But when you start making a lot of heat in the motor it is unable to shed that heat. Meaning your coolant system does not have the capacity to dissipate heat well when demand is high. I bet if you let it idle in your driveway on a 90 degree day for about 45 min it will still be at a normal temp. If i am wrong then you should really looking at the fan clutch.

I chased a coolant system problem for about a year. It ran great but would get "warm" on the highway with AC on. Say 218 degrees on long highway uphills. Once i put a new OEM radiator in problem solved.

Good luck and please just stick with ALL OEM parts. Just get to know Beno or CDan.

 

[Jim Rosenthal]

The argument that Evans makes is that the problem with water-based coolants is that they vaporize when they get hot enough and the water turns to steam, which means no cooling in those hot spots, since the coolant isn't liquid any more. Evidently Evans systems do not run a pressure cap at all- since the coolant doesn't vaporize and generate gas pressure, they don't need one.

Has anyone tried their coolant in a LC engine in a hot climate? It would seem ideal for this kind of cooling challenge.

 

[Pin_Head]

There is a guy that has an FJ40 with a 12 cylinder Jag engine in it. I can't remember who owns it, but I saw him at Surf N Turf in Pismo.

Assuming what the actual temperature is is a recipe for expensive repairs that don't change the situation.

 

[Dave 2000]

Water wetter as I understood the ads years back was that it was designed for use in racing engines, where the coolant gets changed out every other race, back then I doubt the intention was to run for years with no other protection. There were people who used it and swore by it, and others called it snake oil, TBH most drained their systems between races and refilled with warm water.

Next it was called in as good for use in cooling systems that are 'marginal', and although I have never witnessed it in action, it may work as I have no evidence to refute it, but then would I try it in the first place? Of course not, because I am a mechanic by trade and all my cars were kept in top notch condition and never had overheating problems. I do know the 80 cooling system in good condition is not marginal, although Toyota recognised there was a problem when the 80 was used in the Sahara when pulling heavy loads, so they fitted an electric 'booster' fan in front of the radiator and that was that, no mention of additives other than the 50/50 we talk about.

40c (104F) are typical summers days here in Spain, the general landscape is mountainous and all we have is your common or garden variety 50/50 antifreeze/distilled water, no voodoo magic.

With respect, IMO AND IME, if you have a problem with your cooling system then fix it, don't disguise the symptoms/problems with a band aid and hope they will go away.

regards

Dave

 

[Dave 2000]

There is a guy that has an FJ40 with a 12 cylinder Jag engine in it. I can't remember who owns it, but I saw him at Surf N Turf in Pismo.

Would love to have seen that.

regards

Dave

 

[landtoy80]

Is your fan shroud nice and tight?
Did you replace all the foam around the radiator after removing or replacing it?

I have pulled some heavy loads up some steep grades with no heating issues. I made sure my shroudis
tight to the radiator with foam and some extra screws to fill any gaps. The fan is there to pull cool air through the
radiator. With gaps in the shroud, air flow from the fan through the radiator will be lost.
With normal driving its not an issue. Go to Death Valley and pull a grade with a heavy load on a hot day, that air passing through the
gaps in the shroud is air that is not pulled through the radiator. Think of it as sucking a straw with a small hole or crack in it.
It will take longer to suck up the margarita and longer for you to cool down and get a buzz.
The same can be said with your shroud, if it leaks air, cooling will be reduced.

 

[Dave 2000]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I can confirm the above with my own experiments when sorting the electric fan. The final design showed that I had to have the fan shroud very close to the radiator, I used door rubber liner to prevent chafing and seal up the gap. Also at speed the fan would come on if I held 'X' speed for 'X' amount of time (info in my sig thread), to stop this I fabbed up some trunking between the bumper air intakes to the AC/radiator face, worked a treat.

regards

Dave

 

[ARB777]

Not sure about how tight the seals are around the fan shroud. I will have to check tomorrow. Good point.

Update:
Changed fan clutch oil to 10k.
Only drained about 25 ml of the old fluid out.
Skipped the oven part.
Refilled with 30 ml of 10k fluid.
On first start after installing the fan, it roared loud then went back to its normal weak blow.
Tried driving it for an hour. Never heard it roar again. Temp outside is about 50 to 60 F.
Could the engine temp be low enough that it did not engage or i just did not get enough fluid in.
I will look around for more write ups about the eaton fan clutch mod.

 

[Tugarin]

I come up with solution to replace the stock radiator. Get a core of 30-40 ton truck, get your old radiator and make yours own with core of big truck and all brackets from your stock - you will increase your volume up to 5-6 liters. It will then give you capability to drive in scorching heat with both ACs and cooler units on. The temp gauge needle never goes higher than 3 pm o'clock. That's is only way I come up with, I have replaced in 9 years 2 stock radiators. I have also aftermarket gauge, last summer on the heat of +52 Celsius in south of Tajikistan I never had coolant going higher than 86 Celsius with ACs on.

I have made it also cross flow - unfortunately vertical flow, but seems like the pump has no issues pushing the coolant up and down. Another thing I never use water, buy a antifreeze and mix it myself for my needs. Replace the coolant every three years.

 

[ARB777]

I come up with solution to replace the stock radiator. Get a core of 30-40 ton truck, get your old radiator and make yours own with core of big truck and all brackets from your stock - you will increase your volume up to 5-6 liters. It will then give you capability to drive in scorching heat with both ACs and cooler units on. The temp gauge needle never goes higher than 3 pm o'clock. That's is only way I come up with, I have replaced in 9 years 2 stock radiators. I have also aftermarket gauge, last summer on the heat of +52 Celsius in south of Tajikistan I never had coolant going higher than 86 Celsius with ACs on.
View attachment 1220825

I have made it also cross flow - unfortunately vertical flow, but seems like the pump has no issues pushing the coolant up and down. Another thing I never use water, buy a antifreeze and mix it myself for my needs. Replace the coolant every three years.

Nice mod. Can you post a pic of the fan and the shroud? Thanks.

 

[Tugarin]

Shroud I used original, the way how we did it we moved all the brackets from stock radiator to the new. We took my old radiator, took all the measurements, made sure that 4 core will fit. And actually recreated all the fixtures. With no issues of fan blades hitting it or sticking out on the front pushing the AC radiator. Between the blades and the AC radiator there are plenty of space. You can easily fit 5 core radiator there.


No more breaking the small nipple, no more fragile tops and bottoms. The vent nipple as it's crosslow goes to the cap side inside of the radiator. Otherwise it would create air plug.