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Tested the new case at GSMTR.No problems,except when I did not have the t-case shifter all the way in 4 hi.
David
O R I O N (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Poser
- Start date
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Tested the new case at GSMTR.No problems,except when I did not have the t-case shifter all the way in 4 hi.
David
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
#211
I believe it was the first one AA modified to work with a toy box.
The first attempt I had problems keeping it in low and high range.
AA provided me with the new shift rail/detent ball/spring, no real improvement.
Third try AA sent the back cut gear and stepped thrust washers. This cured the high range problem.
Fourth try, I talked to Mike (AA GM) at Cal4WD expo. We arranged for me to drop my case at one of AA's distributors in Auburn. Mike picked it up there and took it to Moab then back to the factory where Randy went through the whole case. (My T-case has been to Moab put neither me or my 40 have, how sad is that?)
The jury is still out but so far I have only had the case come out of gear once in low range. This may have been a linkage issue. Next week we are going to do the Barney Riley trail which should tell the tail.
Performance issues aside I have to say that it has been a pleasure working with AA. Their customer service is some of the best I have encountered anywhere. Every product will have problems at some point, how the vendor handles them is what makes the big difference. IMO AA has done a great job in my case.
I believe it was the first one AA modified to work with a toy box.
The first attempt I had problems keeping it in low and high range.
AA provided me with the new shift rail/detent ball/spring, no real improvement.
Third try AA sent the back cut gear and stepped thrust washers. This cured the high range problem.
Fourth try, I talked to Mike (AA GM) at Cal4WD expo. We arranged for me to drop my case at one of AA's distributors in Auburn. Mike picked it up there and took it to Moab then back to the factory where Randy went through the whole case. (My T-case has been to Moab put neither me or my 40 have, how sad is that?)
The jury is still out but so far I have only had the case come out of gear once in low range. This may have been a linkage issue. Next week we are going to do the Barney Riley trail which should tell the tail.
Performance issues aside I have to say that it has been a pleasure working with AA. Their customer service is some of the best I have encountered anywhere. Every product will have problems at some point, how the vendor handles them is what makes the big difference. IMO AA has done a great job in my case.
I have #318 and it only pops out on really long down hill decents using the engine as a brake and only when in 4 Low.
# 227
Transfer pop'd out twice going down hill in 4-hi. Called AA and got the kit with the shaft and washers but haven't had a chance to install. I have installed the twin stick shifter , stock one was shot , no more popping out for awhile but now it is doing it again . I will just take it to AA and have them fix it with gear etc. A little set back but still would not trade it . Love those low gears.
Transfer pop'd out twice going down hill in 4-hi. Called AA and got the kit with the shaft and washers but haven't had a chance to install. I have installed the twin stick shifter , stock one was shot , no more popping out for awhile but now it is doing it again . I will just take it to AA and have them fix it with gear etc. A little set back but still would not trade it . Love those low gears.
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Orion #376 installed behind an H42.
Built by LCR4WD (poser)
Reused main shaft and shift collar from 1979 transfer case, as they appeared to be in very good condition.
Steeped thrust washers were not needed, and gear free-play with the bearings pressed on the shaft was at .008” for the high-speed gear and .009” for the low-speed gear.
Orion case had a setscrew to retain the provided new shift shaft as was posted up earlier.
Main bearing preload was set at 15”#’s.
Built by LCR4WD (poser)
Reused main shaft and shift collar from 1979 transfer case, as they appeared to be in very good condition.
Steeped thrust washers were not needed, and gear free-play with the bearings pressed on the shaft was at .008” for the high-speed gear and .009” for the low-speed gear.
Orion case had a setscrew to retain the provided new shift shaft as was posted up earlier.
Main bearing preload was set at 15”#’s.
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Case#256 4:1
Popping out of high and low any speed any gear . Installed new shift rail, ball, spring and brass set screw. Seems to have helped the popping out of low but still popping out of high. Donor case was a freshly rebuilt 4spd. Georg at Valley Hybrids built the orion for me. No new cut washer. Right now I am really frustrated with this set up. I hope I can iron it out. Any input and help would be greatly appreciated.
Anyway when I installed the new shift rail and associated parts I noticed that the shift fork didn't seem to seat all the way down onto the synchro shaft sleeve.
Anyone ever experienced this?
Thanks for reading
Josh
Popping out of high and low any speed any gear . Installed new shift rail, ball, spring and brass set screw. Seems to have helped the popping out of low but still popping out of high. Donor case was a freshly rebuilt 4spd. Georg at Valley Hybrids built the orion for me. No new cut washer. Right now I am really frustrated with this set up. I hope I can iron it out. Any input and help would be greatly appreciated.
Anyway when I installed the new shift rail and associated parts I noticed that the shift fork didn't seem to seat all the way down onto the synchro shaft sleeve.
Anyone ever experienced this?
Thanks for reading
Josh
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- Thread starter
- #47
Because it did not need it or the stepped washers did not come in the kit?
The shift fork is not going to be resting on the range shift collar, but rather, suspended in the groove on the collar.
What is the condition of and style/type of transfer case control linkage, and are you positive that the control linkage is not contacting the body or something else is not causing the case to be kicked into neutral?
orangefj45
Supporting Vendor
yup, i built that case amongst others. it is an early case. i reused the synchro slider (collar) and shaft since they were in great shape. the freeplay between the high and low gears was well within specs. i don't recall the exact measurements.
the last case i built was #357 and it came with the cut washers. i was not bale to use them because they ended up with no freeplay at all and the gears bottomed out on each other, causing them to bind.
i'm waiting for pics from josh to see what's going on with the shift fork and collar. i do not think it's the problem. i think the case might have to be updated to the cut gear and possibly the washers depending on the clearance.......
either way, i will stay in contact and make sure this gets resolved even though the case was not purchased thru me or from me. it was one of the main prizes at rubithon a couple of years ago. gark aka mudrak donated it to the raffle!
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
An update. We've did Barney Riley and Deer valley with no further problems. Rubicon in two weeks so I have my fingers crossed.
1Fine40
Rust Buster
Quick question for you all. My Orion did a weird sound the other morning when heading down the road. It almost sounded as if the bearings or the bronze washers on the idler ends ran dry momentarily...eery sound, but it immediately went away. Case has been great since the back cut gear, washers and new shift rail stuff, zero problems. I'm running straight 90W in it..anyone else have that anomaly happen to them??
Cheers!
Cheers!
Josh, double check the preload. When we did my orion it went together with three shims first try and was a little tight , took all three out and it was fine for a little while then it loosened up and needed 1 shim. I think the race was not seated 100% prior to assembly but got pushed in when I used 3 shims.
If thats good then take a look at the lock tab that holds the hi-lo shift rail at back of case. My tab was not flat, it looked stamped and had a little offset to it. Like 2mm maybe. Not a big deal but when put in one way it caused the hi-lo shift collar to rub the dogteeth on the low gear when in nuetral, reverse tab and no more rubbing the dogteeth.
If thats good then take a look at the lock tab that holds the hi-lo shift rail at back of case. My tab was not flat, it looked stamped and had a little offset to it. Like 2mm maybe. Not a big deal but when put in one way it caused the hi-lo shift collar to rub the dogteeth on the low gear when in nuetral, reverse tab and no more rubbing the dogteeth.
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
Back from the Rubicon, no issues with the Orion, except me wetting myself every time I used it ( it tickled the piss out of me
). Both the Orion and Toy Box are still noisy as all hell in low but no more than I would expect from new gears. High range was the same before I got a few miles on them. Use of the two boxes was split about 45/45 on the trail. The other 10% was stuff I used stupid low for. All combinations worked great, except stupid low reverse, that goes beyond insane.
Blue77FJ40
SILVER Star
Dan, did AA say what they found that let it pop out of low into neutral?
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
Randy wrote a list of stuff he replaced. I don't remember all of it off the top of my head but I'm sure I kept the note. I can try to dig it up if you want. IIRC the main thing he did was replace the shift lever, I'm not sure the correct terminology, the one that connects the external linkage to the internal shift yoke. It may have been worn enough to not fully engage the yoke. Or there may have been some slop in the external shaft from the flats getting worn.
Steve (aka Poser) listed up every thing needed to fix it.
I'm just not up to pulling my rig apart in the middle of wheeling season.
I'm just not up to pulling my rig apart in the middle of wheeling season.
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
It only takes a day to R&R Orion (if you've done as many times as I have lately).
I hear ya though, if the last round didn't fix my problems I wasn't going to screw with it again til next winter.
Green 73 and chattfj40,
How do you like the H41 and Orion 4:1 combo? I'm considering it over an SM420 to three speed stock case.
Thanks
How do you like the H41 and Orion 4:1 combo? I'm considering it over an SM420 to three speed stock case.
Thanks
#373 4:1 ; mated to an H41 in H42 case 81:1 final ratio 
Used stock thrust washer, as stepped washer didn't allow proper clearance.
Backcut HS gear and AA supplied shift rail: very stiff right now.
Used stock thrust washer, as stepped washer didn't allow proper clearance.
Backcut HS gear and AA supplied shift rail: very stiff right now.
What are you guys using for a cross member? Or are you using a cross member at all? I've got the AA propeller style but not the mounting hardware. I might ask treeroot to make me one like his. Not sure. What's everyone think?
Great combo with a 2F. The H41 shifts easily w/ good spacing and at 80:1 usually the tires will slip before the engine drops to far below idle. I would do it again.
HTH,
Gary
