O R I O N (7 Viewers)

[orangefj45]

You could either try to find a local shop to complete the entire job for you or you could purchase a complete Orion and do the install yourself.

Georg

 

[Fast Eddy]

What are steps involved for a non-mechanic type?

You could post up here: AR- Razorback Land Cruisers

I see there are a couple posters over there that run an Orion (sandj527).

 

[MEMCruiser]

You could either try to find a local shop to complete the entire job for you or you could purchase a complete Orion and do the install yourself.

Georg

Georg, You do complete builds correct, then I just install it where the old
transfer case was installed? Or are there areas that have to be changed
to put it back.

Georg, If you could PM me more details I would appreciate it.

Thanks.

 

[Bodean]

We have done 2 now in CLC that Georg has built. Let him do it and let Bobby @ Cruiser Co. install like Nolen said. Of the 3 I know Georg built none pop out of gear. If you are ever going to take our advice on anything this would be the one! Either get Georg or Poser that started this thread to build the case for you.

 

[orangefj45]

thanks guys! MWM, i'll pm you......


georg

 

[miker]

Toybox to Orion, shift rail interference.

Installing a Toybox onto an Orion. I ordered the Orion with the Toybox relief. When putting the toybox on to the Orion, the relief was not cut deep enough (back to front) into the Orion case. Called Advance Adapters and they were not in favor of cutting the relief deeper. I didn't mic it but by eyeball, its about 3/16" too shallow. AA said they have a Toybox at AA and that is what they used to determine the depth of the machining and never heard of this issue.

Plan to call Marlin and see if they made any changes over the years in the shift rail or rail cover.

Anyone run into this before?

Toybox plate # is 026. Don't recall the Orion number (ordered it last year) but could post it up later if that helps.

I was thinking that I might be able to cut the shift rail shorter, shorten the rail cover on the toybox, then TIG on a new end plug, Might also be possible to shorted the base end instead of the cap end. Just have to get it out of teh adapter and it appears to be red-locktighted in place.

Any thoughts?

 

[Poser]

Start a new thread and post up some pictures.

I have ran a carbide into an Orion to make room for the Toybox shift rail.

I thought that pictures of this were in the hard core section.


When the server comes back on line, the pics will show up in this thread:


https://forum.ih8mud.com/hardcore-corner/55451-orion-toybox-2.html#post7880334

 

[cruiserdoc]

My Orion nose cone seal is leaking like a sive. It is leaking from where the cone meets the case. Is there a write up that anybody knows of which outlines taking the cone off to replace the seal? On the outside it looks like the 7 or 8 bolts holding it on circumferentially, the shifting linkage, and the front drive shaft to take it off,and the nut that fits at the end of the nosecone infront of the drive shaft. Is there something else that I would need to be prepared to remove? will the internals of the case come falling out when I remove the nose cone? is there specific internal nuts that requires a specific torque, or other nonreuseable oil rings/sleves that I would need to replace as well?does anyone know the best place to get a new seal/gasket.

(I noticed there was an Orion link in the tech section but the link wasnt working for me saying the page expired)

Thanks for any enlightenment

 

[orangefj45]

My Orion nose cone seal is leaking like a sive. It is leaking from where the cone meets the case. Is there a write up that anybody knows of which outlines taking the cone off to replace the seal? On the outside it looks like the 7 or 8 bolts holding it on circumferentially, the shifting linkage, and the front drive shaft to take it off,and the nut that fits at the end of the nosecone infront of the drive shaft. Is there something else that I would need to be prepared to remove? will the internals of the case come falling out when I remove the nose cone? is there specific internal nuts that requires a specific torque, or other nonreuseable oil rings/sleves that I would need to replace as well?does anyone know the best place to get a new seal/gasket.

(I noticed there was an Orion link in the tech section but the link wasnt working for me saying the page expired)

Thanks for any enlightenment

sounds like it's the nose cone gasket that's leaking, not the seal.
first hing you'll want to do is drain the t-case to make a smaller mess.
to remove the nose cone, you'll want to unbolt the mechanical shifter pod. take off the 4 screws that hold it to the nose cone and then gently tap it from the bottom with a hammer. should pop right off. then remove the front driveshaft bolts ( the drive shaft can be left bolted onto the front diff. i usually mark my drive-shafts at the slip joke before removal in case they pull apart ).
next remove the 5 bolts that hold the nose cone to the main case. you may have to tap the nose cone gently from side to side to get it to crack loose. then pull on the front output yoke and you should be able to wiggle it off. clean everything up, make sure you install the front output slider correctly and put it all back together.

but before you do all that, i'd try snugging the 5-nose cone bolts up to see if that'll change anything. it's not a fix for anything but i like to know what's wrong before i attempt to fix anything.....
it's not very common for the t-case to leak there so if i were you, i'd clean it up really well and then see where the oil is coming from. make sure you look up high, it could be running down from the top cover ( shift shaft seal or vent ). and make sure you check the fluid level in the t-case. if it's over-full, then the oil might be transferring from the trans to the t-case and there may be nothing wrong with the t-case at all.

parts you'll need if it's a bad nose cone gasket:

1) nose cone to case gasket
2) nose cone to shift pod gasket
3) 2 quarts gear oil

optional and recommended:
4) new front output seal
5) new front output stake nut

pm me if you need the parts, i have everything on hand.


hth

georg @ valley hybrids

 

[cruiserdoc]

That was an awesome response!!! Thank you Georg for taking the time to write that all out. I will look again to make surety at is where my problem is and if so I'll contact you for the parts


Thanks again.

 

[peesalot]

X2 on that being an uncommon leak spot.
After you have it clean check close around the bolts securing the nose cone to the tcase. it is not uncommon for there to be hairline cracks around the bolts.

 

[orangefj45]

That was an awesome response!!! Thank you Georg for taking the time to write that all out. I will look again to make surety at is where my problem is and if so I'll contact you for the parts


Thanks again.

any news?


georg

 

[orangefj45]

SM465-plate adapter-orion issues

and possibly useful tidbits of info on how to make it all work.........

a customer brought in his 40 about two weeks ago. he had another shop rebuild and SM420 and install it along with an early AA adapter and an orion they built for him. when he brought the cruiser to me, it would'nt move in any gear. made a very slight amount of noise but zero movement. the oil did smell burnt......
so he authorized us to do some investigative work. we started by checking the fluid levels. the t-case was over-filled and the fluid looked horrible to say the least. the trans was low. seen it before. bad seal or sealed bearing between the two units. not a difficult fix but did'nt explain the "no movement".
we removed the clutch cover and everything looked copasetic. next we removed the t-case pto cover. other than the bad oil, everything looked ok. next we pulled the SM420 pto cover. did'nt see anythinng majorly wrong but we did find some shrapnell in the bottom of the case. started the engine, put the trans in gear and the entire geartrain spun as it's supposed to. but no movement from the t-case. that lead us to believe that there was an issue with the spud shaft connecting the two unit.
called the customer and he authorized us to pull the t-case as well as the trans if need be. we went thru the usual steps of removing the t-case. we were able to back it off the 420 about 1/8" and then it stopped. i thought my mechanic had forgotten to remove a bolt but they were all out. strange.
so we removed the trans and t-case combo from the vehicle. still could'nt seperate the two. finally found our custom puller FC187 built years ago and were finally able to divorce those two love birds.
nothing but bad news ......... and the entire combo had less than 500 miles on it. way less.
i'll get to the 465 part soon enough.

 

[orangefj45]

Pics.

 

[orangefj45]

and it only gets worse from there..........

as you can tell by the pics, the oil looks bad to say the least. and you can see that the t-case was overfilled and the oil was leaking out of the vent and running down the top cover.

so we knew for sure that the transmission main shaft was busted, the trans had major issues and the adapter was questionable.

i called AA and that particular adapter had not been in production for 20 years or so. it utilized a short ( about 3.5" iirc ) cast aluminum adapter and custom SM420 main shaft. all of the parts for these are obscolete and AA scrapped out all the old stock when they moved to their new facility about ten years ago. i made a few more calls but no luck. crap. so the trans is pretty much junk and we can't get any parts to fix the adapter.

the repair was already going from bad to extremely worse so i tried to come up with a solution that would be sensible and require the least amount of mods to get the cruiser back on the road.

choices:

1) repair what's there. not possible

2) get another 420 and run a plate adapter. hard to find a good used 420 and the surplus military units are getting really hard to find. plus people are pretty proud of them. then we'd have to deal with modifying the x-member and drivelines due to the shorter overall length. not my favorite way to fix this.

3) same as #2 but with a newer AA adapter. same issues as #2 excelt for the added cost of the AA adapter and the shorter rear driveline. not a plus when you're dealing with a locked 40 that goes wheeling.........

any other option would require a different transmission. after some thinking and measuring i settled for option:

4) rebuilt SM465 with plate adapter and orion. the overall length difference is less than 1/4" so we would'nt have to move the x-member or modify the drivelines. SOLD!

i had a 465 core so i called Merle at classis cruisers in solida CO ( thanks for the tip kurt !!! ) and ordered the proper drilled and tapped main shaft as well as the billet plate adapter kit. luckily it's a nice kit because it's just about the only plate adapter option for this setup currently.

alright, so let's build a trans and check out the t-case just in case. still trying to figure out exactly what happened here and why the main shaft broke.......

 

[orangefj45]

Here's a shot of the rebuilt SM465 with the plate adapter. I like to draw outlines of the gaskets on the mating surface so I know where I can and can't apply the sealant I like to use.

 

[orangefj45]

if you look closely at the top pic in post #455, you can see that the range shifter block set screw was not tight and the block was not aligned properly with the shift fork. just one of many many issues with the work done previously.

georg

 

[orangefj45]

if you look even closer at that same pic, you can see that not just the oil is discolored from heat, but so is the idler shaft and the range shift rail.

that puppy got hot!


georg

 

[orangefj45]

next step was to tear down the orion to make sure everything was ok. well, it was'nt. the bushings in the high and low speed output gears were wasted. they got super hot and galled up. the speedo gear was melted, the idler shaft thrust washers were black and galled, the main shaft extremely worn and blued, ....... you get the picture.


so what happened here? the t-case was overfilled, the trans was low but the t-case showed extreme signs of heat and lack of lubrication.

only logical guess i could come up with: somebody installed the geartrain combo and drove it without putting fluid in it first. i bet it got really noisy in a hurry. so they added fluid and let it go. very bad call. by then the damage had been done. all the bushings were toast, bearings run dry and now junk. and any plastic component melted due to the heat, including the sealed bearing in the adapter. and that's how the fluid got from the trans into the t-case. basically, this entire combo was junk.

after thoroughly cleaning everything we deemed the orion case and gear set to be useable, everything else got scrapped. sad.

 

[orangefj45]

i had all the parts on hand to build the orion so after talking the project over with my customer, not a phone call i wanted to make, we got started on rebuilding the orion.
got that done and ready to mate to the 465.

georg @ valley hybrids