Land Cruiser vs Ford Escort

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I've been rearended twice now by Escorts. One of them hit me doing 30mph and never touched his brakes. Have to buff out 2 small paint marks on the Kaymar. One of the Escorts was drivable and the other wasn't long for this world as it was leaking all sorts of vital fluids.

And that hitch setup you have is rediculous. I might be wrong, but when I see that sort of thing the first thing that comes to mind is you wanted to save some cash over getting a proper class III hitch, if that's the case you deserve what you get.
 
And the repair est is.....
$850 total at my local toyota center, not including my "special" hitch every one likes so much, they could not seem to find one in their book.


Careful Rick, I think you got some more $ fallen out of your butt.
 
IdahoDoug said:
To me, the hitch affixed to those 4 bolt holes - especially with the amount of drop you have - is simply unsound from an engineering perspective.
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That's just ridiculous - why do you think Toyota put those 4 holes there Doug? Have you ever actually seen a European-style hitch (that these were designed for)? It's shaped like 1/2 a horse shoe with a ball on the end - usually coming from underneath the plastic bumper of a small car that's pulling a huge camper. This x-member is much stronger IMO - and is fine for towing...

Trailer%20Hitch.jpg


Tucker
 
landtank said:
I'd think all the work you'd have to do is cut the thing out of there, at least that is all I'd do if putting on the Kaymar.
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I'll disagree Rick!

I had similar damage to that of Doug on the rear crossmember. Couple of dimples in that rear crossmember. It IS part of the frame. If that frame is not straight and that rear crossmember is not straight, a Kaymar WILL NOT fit.

The $850 to replace the rear crossmember is in the ball park of the estimates I got. Guy that hit me was a Yota mechanic and their independent body shop associated with his dealer did it for their cost for him, which I gathered was in the area of $400.

The Kaymar uses 12 total bolts. Six under the frame where an OEM hitch would bolt up. Four more bolts are used with plates supplied by Kaymar that slide into the frame, lining up with existing holes and bolt from the outer side of each frame rail. The remaining two bolts go into the two threaded holes on the rear crossmember itself.

Can't speak to Christo's bumper, but having installed the Kaymar and having had damage not as extensive as this, I can certainly speak from experience on what he's in for.

Again - that rear crossmember and rear portion of the frame rails must be to factory spec for the Kaymar to fit. I'd think Christo's would be similar.

Ins is going to have to fix the crossmember, so depending on the additional $$ for all the OEM pieces of the bumper, that's what you could apply toward a Kaymar.

Kaymar is currently the only aftermarket expedition bumper that has an integrated hitch. Christo is working on one for his bumper. Ken Hanna's bumper does not have a receiver. The Kaymar receiver is approx. 4" higher than the OEM receiver that bolts on to the bottom of the frame rail.

Let me know if you've got an other questions zipastro. Been there done that!
 
I believe the 4x4 labs bumper has an integrated hitch as well. I really think the 4x4labs bumper is the best looking, and you could essentially put all of the insurance money towards it since the 4x4labs bumper requires cutting off that portion of the frame anyway.
 
#1 Personally, I'd take that vehicle to a body shop with a good frame machine...

#2 The four holes there are designed for a hitch (albeit a pintle hitch) and the rear crosssmember is plenty suited to light duty towing. I've got a factory hitch myself, but I don't see the big yank about using the pintle mount for a light duty hitch. Seems like it is being blown out of proportion.

#3 If he'd had a frame mounted hitch it would have probalby done more damage. The frame mounted hitch would transmit the forces to the longitudinal arms of the frame rather than the center of the rear crossmember. The energy that was absorbed by deformation of the crossmember would instead be absoerbed by the rest of the frame, etc.

No, I'm not an engineer, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express... :)

To reiterate, I'd get that rig checked by a reputable frame shop. Not that it can't be fixed, but I'd want to make darn sure the extent of the damage. That estimate you got sounds way low.

Charlie
 
CharlieS said:
#3 If he'd had a frame mounted hitch it would have probalby done more damage. The frame mounted hitch would transmit the forces to the longitudinal arms of the frame rather than the center of the rear crossmember. The energy that was absorbed by deformation of the crossmember would instead be absoerbed by the rest of the frame, etc.

Charlie
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I'll beg to differ on this point. I've been tapped/rear ended three times. In all three cases the brunt of the damage to the offending party was inflicted by my OEM hitch and in two of the three cases, no damage to the Cruiser!
 
Ok.

However, I am not convinced. Here are the quesions your comment brought to my mind:

1) Where did all the "Energy" from the impact go?
2) Do you know that the impact from your collisions were the same (or similar) as the ones posted?
3) Just because the damage was not concentrated in the rear crossmember, does it mean it did not cause damage?

Like I said, I'm not an engineer. Actually, I am an engineer, but software engineering isn't truly engineering, as some of the EEs and MEs will tell you. Besides, it is not a skill set that would add any value to this analysis.

Furthermore, I'm probably dead wrong on that point (#3), and I can live with that. It is just my opinion.

However, the real engineers at Toyota designed (engineered?) the original pintle hitch mount and I am fairly certain, based on the quality of the other components they designed, that they engineered it to handle a little bit of towing. No internet "monday morning quarter-backing" on IH8Mud is going to change that.

Charlie
 
From the looks of the damage, his impact certainly appears to have been greater than all three of mine put together. Agreed, the energy has to go somewhere, but I'd think the six bolts on an OEM hitch would shear off before the frame would be bent. The receiver portion of the hitch does extend slightly beyond the rear crossmember. A lot would also depend on the point of impact as well. Two of my three were with vehicles with front bumpers lower than the rear crossmember, thus the impact on the hitch. I'm no engineer either, just MHO.
 
Tucker,

Yes, in my career as a Product Planner for General Motors, Lexus, and Toyota I have seen a few hitches from Europe (and Australia, and Japan, and the US, and freakin Zambia...). The hitch you show on the back of the Volvo is emphatically NOT the type of hitch you would mount to those 4 holes.


Charlie,

Where would the energy go? Why it would be dissipated in crushing, deforming and bending the front end of the vehicle that hit you. When two items collide, the weaker structure could be said to "absorb" the energy where the stronger structure "resists" it, though it is far more complex than that. Simply put, if the force required to deform the hitch/frame on the Cruiser is higher than the force a front end structure made of sheetmetal and plastic can muster (it is), then there will be no deformation on the Cruiser.

It's kinda like a chicken and a pig contributing to a ham and egg breakfast for the farmer that owns them. When speaking of the breakfast the chicken is merely involved, whereas the pig is committed. With a rear frame hitch and a low speed rear collision, your 80 would be merely involved in the collision....

DougM
 
IdahoDoug said:
Charlie,

Where would the energy go? Why it would be dissipated in crushing, deforming and bending the front end of the vehicle that hit you. When two items collide, the weaker structure could be said to "absorb" the energy where the stronger structure "resists" it, though it is far more complex than that. Simply put, if the force required to deform the hitch/frame on the Cruiser is higher than the force a front end structure made of sheetmetal and plastic can muster (it is), then there will be no deformation on the Cruiser.

It's kinda like a chicken and a pig contributing to a ham and egg breakfast for the farmer that owns them. When speaking of the breakfast the chicken is merely involved, whereas the pig is committed. With a rear frame hitch and a low speed rear collision, your 80 would be merely involved in the collision....

DougM
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A real engineer/physist would be better able to comment, but conservation of momentum causes the energy/momentum to be trasfered to the lower mass object also?

Ross
 
That hitch thingy did cause the greater damage since it created a low area point of impact. Had there been no hitch thingy the engergy would have been spread over a wider area and the rear crossmember would have deflected less as a whole. There still would have been damage but it would not have been so concentrated at one point.

my $ .02
 
tucker74 said:
That's just ridiculous - why do you think Toyota put those 4 holes there Doug? Have you ever actually seen a European-style hitch (that these were designed for)? It's shaped like 1/2 a horse shoe with a ball on the end - usually coming from underneath the plastic bumper of a small car that's pulling a huge camper. This x-member is much stronger IMO - and is fine for towing...

Trailer%20Hitch.jpg


Tucker
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That isn't what the four bolts are for. They are for a pintle hook which puts far different loads on rear than a ball hitch.
 
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