Intereference from high powered CB radio? (1 Viewer)

[woody]

gentlemen, the question was asked with regards to interference, not with regards to illegality.

Please stick to the topic at hand, and do NOT create personal attacks on the subject.

 

[wax808]

[quote author=cruiserdan link=board=2;threadid=10340;start=msg92444#msg92444 date=1074567227]
Wax,

Before this goes any farther I believe we should all be gentlemen about this. Please think about the question you were asking the board.
In essence you asked. "Can I transfer my illegal, high output, radio equipment from my 60 to an 80 without harming the 80's electrical system?"

As you are a new member without a "track record" what kind of responses would you expect? Board members are not in the habit of outlining whatever illegal activities they pursue,
regardless of their motives for, or rationalization of, the activities.

Well, Junk maybe.
Good luck in your quest and I know a place to buy ECU's if you fry some. :



D-

[/quote]

I appreciate it Dan. And I sure as hell hope I dont fry anything I know how much those things cost.

And I really didnt think that people would have a problem with what I was doing. And to be fair I think those negative posts were disingenuous flames. I know how it works, I've been on plenty of boards and have been a lurker on this one for years.

I just have a big problem when I put my time into asking a serious question and get responses like those. Telling me basically that I'm not welcome here and where I can sell my Cruiser. IMHO they should just move on to the next topic if they have nothing to say. If they start crap with me then I like to finish it.

I could understand someones concern if I were doing something harmful, I think all of us are mature enough to know which laws apply to us and which ones are... obsolete.

But I get the point.... I'm done setting Wheezer str8 anyways.

 

[woody]

If they start crap with me then I like to finish it.

You'll make more friends with the Admin if you don't....


PS: the forum started in Sept 2002, so saying "years" can be a bit of an exaggeration....lol

 

[CDN_Cruiser]

 

[wax808]

[quote author=woody link=board=2;threadid=10340;start=msg92491#msg92491 date=1074569613]
You'll make more friends with the Admin if you don't....


PS: the forum started in Sept 2002, so saying "years" can be a bit of an exaggeration....lol
[/quote]

I remember when you started the site and it was being advertised on the forum at Coolcruisers. All you had on the front page was that pic that was had you in the drivers seat of your 40. I was thinking, that dude sure thinks he's buff to be postin a pic of him in a tank top... lol

I was suprised that your forum has this many people on it, I remember last year at this time it wasnt even close. And yes your right, maybe I'll take the S off of years and add "and a half" lol


Oh, and I cant really apologize for sticking up for myself... It's kind of the way I am, even if I am just wasting my time and gettin Carpal Tunnel. Im a respectful person and if I dont get the same in return it gives me an excuse to let loose on someone. I try and be good.

 

[squeezer]

[quote author=wax808 link=board=2;threadid=10340;start=msg92310#msg92310 date=1074555775]
I realize how much power that 2kw is and try not to abuse it. (Even though I did it last week to some dude that passed me and then slammed on his brakes to spite me, guess he didnt know I could come across his car speakers.)

snip'

The only thing I have ever done was shutdown a VW bug that was idling next to me when I keyed up. Those old generators dont like RF. [/quote]

I'm am so sorry for tagging you as a troll right away. Please accept my apologies... And as a token of friendship I will offer $800 for your 60.

 

[wax808]

[quote author=squeezer link=board=2;threadid=10340;start=msg92537#msg92537 date=1074572241]
I'm am so sorry for tagging you as a troll right away. Please accept my apologies... And as a token of friendship I will offer $800 for your 60.


[/quote]

Apology accepted

And I would be more than happy to give you my 60 for 800 bux.

As long as your wife lets you sell her BJ60 and FZJ80 to me for 4,000.

/rimshot


Her's doesnt have an airbag now does it? Man I hate it when they go off... lol

 

[GXO]

I'm gettin misty!!!

 

[CDN_Cruiser]

Wax:

Welcome - you sure know how to make an entrance, maybe you should try streaking next time?

I'm not quite sure what to do with you - on one side you are obviously a big radio enthusiast and are interested in long distance (DX) communications, etc. On the other, you are the kind of operator that gives CB a bad name and continues to encourage me not to use CB.

There are a few points of misinformation that you posted that I think need to be addressed (and are likely the source of people's frustration with you):

You (likely correct) pointed out "I can understand someone's concern if I were doing something harmful" and "FCC used to regulate...only way they do so now is if someone's causing serious mischief or harming their neighbours"

Well neighbour, I think every time you key the mike you are basically doing exactly that. Aside from the fact that you are causing radio interference and splatter across a huge geographic area and swath of freq (interfering with neighbours), you also pointed out a few cases where you have (purposefully?) interfered with others - including a guy that "slammed on his brakes" and when you shut down a VW bug.

Now, if it was just that, I would probably leave it. Paradise mentioned the harm you are likely causing to yourself running your rig - you should listen to him. I entered your 'stats' into a RF exposure calculator. You rig is producing something in the order of 36.4 mw/cm^2 estimated RF power. The maximum permisable exposure (MPE) in an uncontrolled environment is 0.24mw/cm^2 - you are operating approximately 150X over safe RF levels. Now if that was only harming you, that would be your decision, but you are also harming people that are anywhere near your rig when you transmit. In fact, to 'safely' operate your rig, you need to be 62' away from it. Put another way - you are affecting the health of others 62' in all directions from you - thanks neighbour. Cell towers, etc are also all designed to be within spec of the safety regs - your rig isn't.

Think about this for a second - would you be willing to tolerate exposures 150X the safe level of radiation/carbon monoxide/mercury/etc.?

Amateur radio operators are legally allowed to run high power (BTW - I believe the max in the US is 1,500W DC input - 1,000W below what you are running) is that (1) they have the proper training to do so (ie the safety calcs above) and - to run 1,500W - have actually passed TWO exams (2) they are running equipment designed to handle this power safely and to keep it focused on the right 'target' (ie stay on freq) and NOT to leak into every electronic gizmo. Most mobile operators will run nothing close to 1,500W - more like 25W - 100W.

Finally, the idea that some 2,500W CB Blowhorn is a useful 'safety' item is crazy. It's not that CB's can't be useful, but some huge distorted signal is of limited value ("...did he say he needs help...or was it smokey's on my tail..."). You could write a 35 question multiple choice exam and be able to legally run a 2M radio that has a far higher chance of getting help when you need it. A quick search of the area that you live in shows hundreds of repeaters that you could use and that are most likely monitored/have emergency power and may have phone patch capabilities.

Now back to the positive space - why not divert all of your energy and enthusiasm into amateur radio? You could run a nice clean HF signal, have a great emergency radio, etc.

PS, keep the 60 - a great truck.

Cheers, Hugh

 

[wob]

Hey Wax,
If you are concerned about safety and wanting to communicate anywhere, why not buy a satellite phone?

 

[wax808]

[quote author=CDN_Cruiser link=board=2;threadid=10340;start=msg92578#msg92578 date=1074577347]
Wax:

Welcome - you sure know how to make an entrance, maybe you should try streaking next time?

I'm not quite sure what to do with you - on one side you are obviously a big radio enthusiast and are interested in long distance (DX) communications, etc. On the other, you are the kind of operator that gives CB a bad name and continues to encourage me not to use CB.

There are a few points of misinformation that you posted that I think need to be addressed (and are likely the source of people's frustration with you):

You (likely correct) pointed out "I can understand someone's concern if I were doing something harmful" and "FCC used to regulate...only way they do so now is if someone's causing serious mischief or harming their neighbours"

Well neighbour, I think every time you key the mike you are basically doing exactly that. Aside from the fact that you are causing radio interference and splatter across a huge geographic area and swath of freq (interfering with neighbours), you also pointed out a few cases where you have (purposefully?) interfered with others - including a guy that "slammed on his brakes" and when you shut down a VW bug.

Now, if it was just that, I would probably leave it. Paradise mentioned the harm you are likely causing to yourself running your rig - you should listen to him. I entered your 'stats' into a RF exposure calculator. You rig is producing something in the order of 36.4 mw/cm^2 estimated RF power. The maximum permisable exposure (MPE) in an uncontrolled environment is 0.24mw/cm^2 - you are operating approximately 150X over safe RF levels. Now if that was only harming you, that would be your decision, but you are also harming people that are anywhere near your rig when you transmit. In fact, to 'safely' operate your rig, you need to be 62' away from it. Put another way - you are affecting the health of others 62' in all directions from you - thanks neighbour. Cell towers, etc are also all designed to be within spec of the safety regs - your rig isn't.

Think about this for a second - would you be willing to tolerate exposures 150X the safe level of radiation/carbon monoxide/mercury/etc.?

Amateur radio operators are legally allowed to run high power (BTW - I believe the max in the US is 1,500W DC input - 1,000W below what you are running) is that (1) they have the proper training to do so (ie the safety calcs above) and - to run 1,500W - have actually passed TWO exams (2) they are running equipment designed to handle this power safely and to keep it focused on the right 'target' (ie stay on freq) and NOT to leak into every electronic gizmo. Most mobile operators will run nothing close to 1,500W - more like 25W - 100W.

Finally, the idea that some 2,500W CB Blowhorn is a useful 'safety' item is crazy. It's not that CB's can't be useful, but some huge distorted signal is of limited value ("...did he say he needs help...or was it smokey's on my tail..."). You could write a 35 question multiple choice exam and be able to legally run a 2M radio that has a far higher chance of getting help when you need it. A quick search of the area that you live in shows hundreds of repeaters that you could use and that are most likely monitored/have emergency power and may have phone patch capabilities.

Now back to the positive space - why not divert all of your energy and enthusiasm into amateur radio? You could run a nice clean HF signal, have a great emergency radio, etc.

PS, keep the 60 - a great truck.

Cheers, Hugh
[/quote]


I appreciate your concern Hugh, and the time you took to write that up. I have been toying with the idea of getting my amateur license for quite a while now. I like all the toys you get to play with, especially the handheld units. The technology you guys get to play around with makes CB radio look like stone age equipment.

That being said I really dont agree at all with your numbers. You and I both know that 1500w limit for hams is 1500w RMS. CB radio watts are usually measured in Peak watts.

1500 RMS watts = about 3900 peak watts.

And I'm talking about the type of RMS numbers you get off of a Bird meter, not one of those cheap Dosy's.

I usually put out 900-1.1kw RMS on my meters According to your calculations I'm still getting roughly 100x the recommended exposure. So lets drop that down to the wattage many ham's use, at 200 watts they are still getting about 20x the maximum exposure. Just because its a potentially cleaner signal makes no difference, RF is RF as far as the human body is concerned no matter how much is splatters over to other frequencies.

The reason I'm disputing this is because I dont want some dude with a 2-pill under his drivers seat to get all freaked out thinking he's gonna get cancer. Now I have done alot of research on what RF might be doing to my body, and have found no real evidence that it does much harm at these levels. We both know that the Ham community has done more experimenting and testing than we care to hear about, and I'm pretty sure that if 1500w RF was going to put you at 200x the safe levels then there would be a different restriction.

Now contrast 1500w RMS at 11 meters compared to what a Cell phone tower can do to you. Those cell towers ( and cell phones) for that matter osscilate at frequencies that scramble cells in the body in a way that an 11 meter transmission never could. 11 meter is about 27,000 cycles per second, compared to a cell phone signal which can be literally billions of cycles per second.
The real problem here is obviously the microwave signals at those frequencies, but compounding that exponentialy is the fact that these towers transmit 24/7. And they also operate at much higher wattage than a lower frequency would have to, those microwaves dont travel very far without a lot of help. The FCC approved these towers because there is enough filtering that you can place them in a neighborhood and not get too much bleedover at those high frequencies. These things havent been around long enough to know the long term consequences, 11 meter communication has. Here is a somewhat paranoid but I think accurate essay about the same thing I am talking about http://www.rfsafe.com/article484.html?osCsid=33e6b155ab3ef8e3d6830bb5382000a9

Now as far as my 2kw mobile not being a useful safety device... do you think the US military uses little 200 watt transmitters in their vehicles? Have you ever turned on a CB radio in the daytime and heard all of the skip out there? In order to get above that you need a few hundred watts, a few thousand just ensures I will be heard much better. I want the best tool for the job period. And when I referred to a CB being a useful safety device I was talking about a 200 watt amplifier. I realize that not many people are going to put the effort into their radios like I did.


Now I'm not saying that 2kw peak RF watts is not harmless by any means, but I do know for a fact that it is a lesser of many evils. Alot of those transmitters are all around us every day, broadcasting 24/7 and we dont even know it unless we look.

I know that 2kw sounds like alot, but if you look around your gonna see alot more sources of radiation that you need to be much more concerned about. Besides, unless your on that hilltop with me, youll probably only get about 200 watts of evil from my small amplifer if I'm in town. I would be more worried about the cop car with the 1kw 800mhz repeater in his rig.


And I think I'm gonna keep my 60 even when I get an 80 series. I cant stand the thought of giving it up.

 

[GXO]

Just be careful wax808...

I would hate to see you key the mic and suddenly find yourself transported to another location via wormhole due to the power in your broadcast.

remember the baboon in "The Fly"? Just think of the possibilities!

 

[PHAEDRUS]

Wax
(pardon me while I don the asbestos flame suit prior to joining this thread...... ahhh much better)
back to the topic at hand, can you do it? well we will sure let you be the sacrificial lamb on this one. might I suggest you look into the earlier model(read 91 -92) fj80 series. I think once you get into obdII level diagnostics you are going to have more problems with your set up. plus you can steal the early model with 3FE for not a huge up front and they are mecahnically closer to you fj60 than the fzj series. This will not work for you if you are in a hurry or if you plan to tow but for the dollars they are a good option. also the 3FE can be desmogged without a lot of problems as there is no o2 sensor post cat. might alos be a good thing for you as well.
(hanging suit on the wall for easy acess)
Dave

 

[SeanAndHis80]

Wax - I think Dan answered your question and I know little about it - but I was wondering if you could come up with a 25 hundred, thousand or whatever cell phone jammer for me?

Between the cell phone jammer and the windshield modification C&#039an mentions - I should be set for the streets in NYC.

 

[wax808]

[quote author=Phaedrus link=board=2;threadid=10340;start=msg92771#msg92771 date=1074625879]
Wax
(pardon me while I don the asbestos flame suit prior to joining this thread...... ahhh much better)
back to the topic at hand, can you do it? well we will sure let you be the sacrificial lamb on this one. might I suggest you look into the earlier model(read 91 -92) fj80 series. I think once you get into obdII level diagnostics you are going to have more problems with your set up. plus you can steal the early model with 3FE for not a huge up front and they are mecahnically closer to you fj60 than the fzj series. This will not work for you if you are in a hurry or if you plan to tow but for the dollars they are a good option. also the 3FE can be desmogged without a lot of problems as there is no o2 sensor post cat. might alos be a good thing for you as well.
(hanging suit on the wall for easy acess)
Dave
[/quote]

While I appreciate your efforts Dave I must disagree with what you say.... oh wait, nevermind. lol


No seriously, I really do appreciate what your advice. I had no idea that those 91-92's even had an FJ designation. Thats pretty cool that they have less electronics than the later models. Hopefully they get better mileage and tow better than my 60.

Now you say that if I am in a hurry? Are they tougher to find than a later model? theres an 92 here in town for 10k, maybe I'll go look at it.



Oh and Seanandhis80: I dont know much about cell phone jammers, but one of these rigs would probably work. http://www.bigradios.com/avis/

 

[wob]

He meant that if you were in a hurry (liked to get places fast), don't get the old one with the 3FE. Ie, they are slow.

 

[Beowulf]

Wax,

First let me say that you appear to be intelligent and it's obvious that you communicate effectively in this medium. I appreciate good spelling, grammar, and well articulated responses.

To the point...

>> [you] NEVER key up with the kids in the car. <<
>> Now I have done alot of research on what RF might be doing to my body, and have found no real evidence that it does much harm at these levels. <<

The above statements of yours are just an example of the multiple ambiguities and rationalizations in your recent posts.

• You acknowledge your 2kw CB is not legal but you rationalize that other things are worse.
• You say you use your 2kw CB responsibly but you post 2 examples where you were grossly irresponsible.
• You say it's not dangerous to people's health yet you *never* key with your own kids close by.
• You say it's for long-range communication yet you acknowledge that amatuer radio would be more appropriate.

The analogies given by others are excellent. Responsible adults don't advocate BLATENTLY illegal and potentially harmful activities regardless of how many posts they've got and what type vehicle we drive. My comments have absolutely nothing to do with anything other than a disdain for your disregard for the law.

Chris, Hugh, Will, Ron, Todd, Dan, and Sean gave you an explanation for the rude welcome you were given. It's like a stranger walking into a neighborhood pub and asking for advice on how to rob the pub owner next door. We're all friends here and most of us use CB (legally) and/or amateur radio (legally.)

Do me a favor... Go to disco web or any other vehicle specific forum of your choosing and post up the identical first message (changing the vehicle types) and let us know what type of reception you receive. I'd be curious.

The fact that you drive an FJ60, an 80, or any Toyota doesn't mean we should or will "look the other way" and accept your rationalizations for your illegal activities.

-B-

 

[PHAEDRUS]

Wob is on it
the 3FE is a great motor with lots of torque where it counts but is a turtle when put next to the 1fze. I love mine but 10k for a 91 is a bit steep. Hell I will sell you my 92 with suspension and 33x12.5 and bull bar for that. good price range for stock 91 -92 is 6-9k depending on the condition and if it has been maintained well. if the birfs are clicking subtract 1k from the price of whatever cruiser you look at. FWIW I know of a poster here whos brother picked up a 92 in pretty good shape for 6k without too much searching. note this was in northwest washington area so prices will vary.
Dave

 

[wax808]

[quote author=Beowulf link=board=2;threadid=10340;start=msg92838#msg92838 date=1074633945]


Wax,

First let me say that you appear to be intelligent and it's obvious that you communicate effectively in this medium. I appreciate good spelling, grammar, and well articulated responses.

To the point...

>> [you] NEVER key up with the kids in the car. <<
>> Now I have done alot of research on what RF might be doing to my body, and have found no real evidence that it does much harm at these levels. <<

The above statements of yours are just an example of the multiple ambiguities and rationalizations in your recent posts.

• You acknowledge your 2kw CB is not legal but you rationalize that other things are worse.
• You say you use your 2kw CB responsibly but you post 2 examples where you were grossly irresponsible.
• You say it's not dangerous to people's health yet you *never* key with your own kids close by.
• You say it's for long-range communication yet you acknowledge that amatuer radio would be more appropriate.

The analogies given by others are excellent. Responsible adults don't advocate BLATENTLY illegal and potentially harmful activities regardless of how many posts they've got and what type vehicle we drive. My comments have absolutely nothing to do with anything other than a disdain for your disregard for the law.

Chris, Hugh, Will, Ron, Todd, Dan, and Sean gave you an explanation for the rude welcome you were given. It's like a stranger walking into a neighborhood pub and asking for advice on how to rob the pub owner next door. We're all friends here and most of us use CB (legally) and/or amateur radio (legally.)

Do me a favor... Go to disco web or any other vehicle specific forum of your choosing and post up the identical first message (changing the vehicle types) and let us know what type of reception you receive. I'd be curious.

The fact that you drive an FJ60, an 80, or any Toyota doesn't mean we should or will "look the other way" and accept your rationalizations for your illegal activities.

-B-
[/quote]

Geesh, enough already.... Well here goes....

First of all I never asked anyone about the legality of what I do, I am asking a technical question. I also never said anything about Ham radio being better for long distance communications.

Secondly, I think your just retorting because I called you out for being rude to a new member. All your doing is re-hashing what others have said a day late. You need to read my posts a bit closer, I never claimed that high amounts of RF are harmless. Just because I dont have my kids in the car when I transmit means that I am very careful with my family, it doesnt make me contradict myself.

>>>"It's like a stranger walking into a neighborhood pub and asking for advice on how to rob the pub owner next door."<<< Nice analogy, fits perfectly... lol

>>>"Responsible adults don't advocate BLATENTLY illegal and potentially harmful activities regardless of how many posts they've got and what type vehicle we drive. My comments have absolutely nothing to do with anything other than a disdain for your disregard for the law."<<< Do you really think I believe that? That you feel the need to call me out on my illegal practices? Leave your morals to yourself... If you dont have the answer to my technical question or dont want to answer then please... just move on.

To put it bluntly, you are sounding like the equivalent of the environmentalist that whines when someone decides to: De-smog their truck, Run through a river, make a new trail, put a soda can in the garbage rather than the recycle bin.

I dont expect you to agree with what I do, but I do expect you to treat me the same way that (I hope) you treat everyone else in your world. If you dont agree with what someone is doing, do the world a favor and leave them alone.

(I know what you want to say, "What your doing is illegal and harmful, what about the children!") The same rule applies everywhere, just because I have a shotgun doesnt mean I'm gonna go be reckless with it. Sometimes you just need to learn to leave people alone dude....


Oh and to answer your question about how other people react to this... I have posted about my hobby on many different message boards, the only time I have ever gotten a response like this is from www.qrz.net . A few of the hams there acted just like you do.... total disrespect and disdain for anothers' ideas, thoughts, and actions. I guess theres gotta be a few like you everywhere... *sigh*

Now please.... if you dont have anything nice to say.... I'm gonna tell teacher.

 

[wax808]

[quote author=Phaedrus link=board=2;threadid=10340;start=msg92855#msg92855 date=1074635939]
Wob is on it
the 3FE is a great motor with lots of torque where it counts but is a turtle when put next to the 1fze. I love mine but 10k for a 91 is a bit steep. Hell I will sell you my 92 with suspension and 33x12.5 and bull bar for that. good price range for stock 91 -92 is 6-9k depending on the condition and if it has been maintained well. if the birfs are clicking subtract 1k from the price of whatever cruiser you look at. FWIW I know of a poster here whos brother picked up a 92 in pretty good shape for 6k without too much searching. note this was in northwest washington area so prices will vary.
Dave
[/quote]

Yeah I live in Eastern washington, I cant believe how cheap vehicles usually are here (and full of rust).

Thanks for the advice on the prices, I have the cash to get one now but am probably gonna take my time so I can get a good deal. I sure would like to find one with factory Lockers (if they came on the 91-92's)

Now is that 3FE a bit zippier than my 2F? Keep in mind that my 2F has about 270k miles on it with only a rebuilt head. My 2F is a dog, and can only go about 35 mph up some of the steeper passes when I'm towing a 1500 pound trailer. I guess I'll find out when I drive an 80.

Also, since the fj-80's are so much like the 60's. Is it just as easy to drop a 350 in one?

Thanks for your time and advice Dave,