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Intereference from high powered CB radio?

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by wax808, Jan 19, 2004.

  1. wax808

    wax808

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    Hello all,

    I have an older 1983 FJ-60. I installed a 200 amp Leece neville alternator, and 2 yellow top optimas in the back to run my CB radio.

    I run an RCI 2970 CB with 2 amplifiers run in series. This puts out about 2500 watts of RF. In my old landcruiser it's not a problem, all that happens is that keying up makes my blinkers speed up and turns on my seatblet light. I did have an older sedan that the fuel pump would cut out when I keyed up because I was interfering with the computer.


    My question is, are all the 80 series cruisers equipped with computers that could potentially be interfered with? if so where are they located? Has anyone else here done what I am doing?


    I am going to be purchasing an 80 series in the next few weeks. I would love to put my radio in it, but just want to be ready for any problems. I guess I wont be able to put my 200 amp large alt in it, it already touches my hood in the FJ-60 and I dont think the 80 series have as much room under there.
     
  2. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    If this is a serious question, I'll give a serious answer. The 80 has A LOT more computer stuff on board than a 60 and that much RF energy (very illegal, BTW) would turn it on it's head.


    I have to ask, what leads you to require 2,495 watts above the legal limit? ???
     
  3. Koffer

    Koffer

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    Toss that much RF into a 80 with air bags and you'll have the factory installed Blanky hanging out of the steering wheel and dash in no time .
    :eek:

    I have seen this happen with a poorly installed handsfree cell (less then 2 watts) phone kit at work and the airbag broke my bosses 3yr old son's arm when the cell rang while as he was going 40mph on the highway :(
     
  4. woody

    woody unhelpful spotter Staff Member Admin

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    you may have luck running the system totally separate from the balance of the vehicle, however you may still find that the antenna output alone will create lots of issues.

    Curious to what antennas you are running that handle that wattage...

    I haven't yet bumped any of my systems over 25 watts internally...but have a buddy with a 200 watt amp who is considering ditching it...

    remind me to have my CB off when you key up tho ;)
     
  5. ParadiseCruiser

    ParadiseCruiser

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    That much power in a mobile can create havoc with radios/equipment in nearby vehicles as well. Not to mention the effect that much RF in a confined space has on the human body. You're lucky you don't go home at night glowin' in the dark. In fact, maybe you do...

    The FCC is on a mission to curb such illegal use of CBs... late last year they nailed one dude with a $14,000 fine + confiscation of his gear (among many others...), and promise more of the same.

    You can talk all over the world on 27-28 mHz with 100 watts and a proper installation & antenna. That much power is nuts. IMHO, of course.

    Cheers, R -
     
  6. wax808

    wax808

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    Yes its a serious question and to answer the question about how why I would need that much power... I talk on Ch 6 and 11 all the time and you really cant get heard on those with anything less. I like to be the loudest guy in Wa. St. sometimes. The type of talking I do is more of a competition than anything else, check us out sometimes on those channels :) But yes you are correct ParadiseCruiser, I have takled to Austrailia on a 102" whip and 100 watts :)

    And yes I do know about the FCC, I've been doing this since I was 16 and know how to run my stuff. I dont key down by Hospitals, Schools, apartment complexes etc. I go to a hilltop and do it. I realize how much power that 2kw is and try not to abuse it. (Even though I did it last week to some dude that passed me and then slammed on his brakes to spite me, guess he didnt know I could come across his car speakers.)

    The type of antenna I use is made by a guy in Oregon. His website is www.mrcoily.com It can handle up to 30kw supposedly.

    Now I have done my research on RF energy on the body and its kind of scary. The scary thing to me would be to live by a cell phone tower or much worse to live by a Television or a Radio station transmitter. My 2kw saturating my body for 30 seconds at a time is nothing compared to 100kw saturating every living being within a 1 mile radius 24/7. Even though I feel it is relatively safe for me, I NEVER key up with the kids in the car.

    Now I'm pretty sure Koffer that 2 watts will never set an airbag off. Something else must have done that. The only thing I have ever done was shutdown a VW bug that was idling next to me when I keyed up. Those old generators dont like RF. But do you know what year of the 80 series have airbags just in case? lol. I would hate for that to happen.

    I know its possible to run this ok, I say a guy at a CB shootout in a late model T-100 that had about 10kw setup and he had no problems. I was just hoping that someone here would be able to help me so I know what to look out for in advance. I love my hobby enough that if its gonna cause problems in my new Cruiser, then I'll just keep my old 60 and not sell it :)


    Thanks for the feedback guys!
     
  7. Koffer

    Koffer

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    It sure can. Like I said a poorly installed unit of any type, 4 watts or 4kws will do it . Generate the right amount of RF across a relay's coil and POP :'(.
    You wrap the ant. wire around just the right things or also hook the power wires into the Airbag power fuse (both were done on the work van I saw this happen to)
    I have worked in the commercial two-way market with repairs and installs on everything from fire and police cars to repeaters on buildings . I now work in the TV side and see stuff like this all the time . A large amount of RF will saturate and get through shielding .
    Remember the little lights you could put on the tip of the ant of your 5 watt CB and it would light up when you transmited ?
    magic ? no just RF poss. like your seatbelt light does
    :-\
     
  8. Beowulf

    Beowulf

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    wax808,

    >> I love my hobby enough that if its gonna cause problems in my new Cruiser,
    >> then I'll just keep my old 60 and not sell it

    I am absolutely, 100% sure you will have major electrical problems if you attempt to run that system in an 80. There is a FJ60 section here on IH8MUD so you can hang over there.

    Bye.

    -B-
     
  9. squeezer

    squeezer

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    Sounds like you need to give up on the Cruisers all together. Its obvious they can't handle a guy with your kind of power.

    May I suggest something like a mid 70's Corvette. They have a fully shielded ignition to protect your car and a nice transparent (to RF anyway) body so you can "talk" to the bastards that put their brakes on in front of you. Not to mention some of GM's most awsome styling.

    No-sir-e-bub Cruisers just don't seem right for you at all.

    The For Sale section is at the bottom of the main page...
     
  10. wax808

    wax808

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    [quote author=squeezer link=board=2;threadid=10340;start=msg92343#msg92343 date=1074559191]
    Sounds like you need to give up on the Cruisers all together. Its obvious they can't handle a guy with your kind of power.

    May I suggest something like a mid 70's Corvette. They have a fully shielded ignition to protect your car and a nice transparent (to RF anyway) body so you can "talk" to the bastards that put their brakes on in front of you. Not to mention some of GM's most awsome styling.

    No-sir-e-bub Cruisers just don't seem right for you at all.

    The For Sale section is at the bottom of the main page...


    [/quote]
    :-\
    I dont know where this kind of hostility came from.... I've owned my FJ-60 for years and have taken it all over the backwoods up here in Eastern Washington. I have no desire to drive anything else other than a Cruiser (well maybe a Supra). I do however have desire to get a more comfortable vehicle for my family besides our 4-Runner. My Cruiser now has no problem with the amount of RF I put out.

    The same goes for you too Beowulf, for someone with over 2,000 posts you seem a bit "eliteist" about your precious 80 Series section of the forum. Why the hell wouldnt you welcome someone that takes an interest in the same vehicle you do? Especially a fellow Cruiser enthusiast.

    And yes there are plenty of people that drive newer vehicles with computers and have no problem running way more power than I do, (see my comment about the T-100.) I was hoping to find someone here that has either shared my experience or knew where the computer was located in the vehicle. I know that 2kw sounds like a astronomical amount compared to the 4w limit, but really guys, its not all that much. If you've ever driven by a cell phone tower, airport, or TV transmitter you are being bombarded with many hundreds of times that amount. And CB is only 11 meter, compare that to a Cell phone tower transmitting at 2.4ghz or so which is much, much more harmful.

    I'm glad that you two are the exception rather than the rule for the Landcruiser enthusiasts I have communicated with. I expect that kind of response from a "Newbie", but not from a forum regular. I'll chalk it up to you having a bad day :)

    I'm sure that someone out there knows where the computer is located in the 80's. Can anyone share that info with me if they have it? What about the Airbag? does anyone know what years had them?


    Thanks again for your help,
     
  11. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    I think perhaps, that the Wulf is concerned about your blatantly illegal hobby :-\ You quoted squeezer BTW, not Beo.

    The engine ECU lives above the glove box. Airbags are found on 95 up vehicles.
     
  12. wax808

    wax808

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    While we are on this subject let me share a reason why a high powered CB set up is a great thing to have in an off road vehicle.

    First of all when I say High-powered Im talking about 200 watts or so like Woody's friend. That amount of power is less than most Ham operators amplifiers, it will not turn on your airbag and will need no upgrades to your electrical system (will draw about 15 amps or so when transmitting)

    Up here in Eastern Washington/Idaho/Montana there are many remote logging roads and such that have no cell phone coverage. The only communications are via radio or a sattelite phone. Now CB's dont go much further than 50 miles or so, especially in the daytime where there is alot of "Propogation" or "skip".

    Propogation occurs when the Ionosphere is charged and acts as a mirror for radio waves. This lets you talk all over the world. While you can do this with 4 watts bumping that amount up to 200 watts or so GREATLY incrases your chances of being heard somewhere else.

    Let me give you an example of something i heard one day: I was taking to a station in Honolulu Hi. When he stopped suddenly and told someone in California to quickly go to a quieter channel. I followed them there and heard why it was such a big deal.

    The person in California was in a remote area of the coast and was a witness to a Hanglider vs. Car accident. One person was dead and quite a few injured. The operator in Hawaii quickly notified the authorities in Cali and helped get an ambulance there immediately.

    THAT is why a competent, and yes, high powered radio should never be underestimated if you ever do any serious trekking into remote areas. Just like my toolbox has an extra fuel pump and clutch rebuild kit, my radio always has an amplifier.


    Here is a wonderful guide that will tell you everything you need to know in order to do this :)
    http://www.1stopelectronics.com/Amp-install-101.htm

    Let me know if you have any other questions, I would be more than happy to help.
     
  13. wax808

    wax808

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    [quote author=cruiserdan link=board=2;threadid=10340;start=msg92388#msg92388 date=1074562717]
    I think perhaps, that the Wulf is concerned about your blatantly illegal hobby :-\ You quoted squeezer BTW, not Beo.

    The engine ECU lives above the glove box. Airbags are found on 95 up vehicles.
    [/quote]


    I understand that he might be concerned about my illegalities :) I hope that my having a desmogged FJ-60 doesnt upset him too much, that is also Blatantly Illegal where i live. To me it just seemed like plain old fashioned newbie bashing, not concern. And I did mean to quote Squeezer, his type of attitude is not cool in such a close knit community IMHO.


    And thank you very much for the info Cruiserdan!!
     
  14. squeezer

    squeezer

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    What you are asking about is highly illegal, this is a public forum... If somebody was asking how suitable an 80 was for jacklighting and poaching deer what kind of response would you expect ? A warm "welcome fellow landcruiser owner...".

    I was being sarcastic, more or less of a polite way to divert the topic. If you think we are harsh, wait till Junk wakes up this evening. (Junk has to stay away during daylight, something to do with flesh burning when touched by the sun) I hope you have a garlic necklace and asbestos boxers.

    Good Luck
     
  15. wax808

    wax808

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    [quote author=squeezer link=board=2;threadid=10340;start=msg92401#msg92401 date=1074563472]
    What you are asking about is highly illegal, this is a public forum... If somebody was asking how suitable an 80 was for jacklighting and poaching deer what kind of response would you expect ? A warm "welcome fellow landcruiser owner...".

    I was being sarcastic, more or less of a polite way to divert the topic. If you think we are harsh, wait till Junk wakes up this evening. (Junk has to stay away during daylight, something to do with flesh burning when touched by the sun) I hope you have a garlic necklace and asbestos boxers.

    Good Luck
    [/quote]


    Actually its not "highly illegal", just like Desmogging or having uncovered off road lights is not "highly illegal". The FCC used to regulate CB power in the 70's and 80's as a rule. The only way they do so now is if someone is causing serious mischeif or harming their neighbors. they would do the same thing to a Ham operator that runs 2kw legally.

    If you dont like the topic, then dont read it or post. Resist the urge to "divert" the illegal thread.

    I dont expect a warm welcome in a public forum. But if you are gonna tell me to sell my Cruiser because you dont like what I'm saying then you should expect to be called out for it.
     
  16. squeezer

    squeezer

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    FCC part 95 Sub D

    RULE 10 - Power Output
    {A} Your CB station transmitter power output must not exceed the following values under any conditions:
    AM [Amplitude Modulation] - 4 watts carrier power [CP]
    SSB [Single Side-Band] - 12 watts peak envelope power [PEP]
    {B} If you need more information about the power rule, see Part 95/ Subpart E.
    {C} Use of a transmitter which has carrier [CP] or peak envelope power [PEP]in excess of that authorized voids your authority to operate the station.
    RULE 11 - Linear Amplifiers
    {A} You may not attach the following items (power amplifiers) to your type-accepted CB transmitter in any way:
    [1] External radio frequency [RF] power amplifiers, also called linear amplifiers, or linears;
    or
    [2] Any other devices which, when used with a radio transmitter as a signal source, are capable of amplifying the signal.
    {B} There are no exceptions to this rule and use of a power amplifier voids your authority to operate the station.
    {C} The FCC will presume you have used a linear or other external [RF] power amplifier if-
    [1] It is in your possession or on your premises; and
    [2] There is OTHER EVIDENCE that you have operated your CB station with more power than allowed by CB Rule 10.
    {D} Paragraph C above in this section does not apply if you hold a license in another radio service (HAM, etc.) which allows you to operate an external RF power amplifier.

    And I wouldn't give damm except you were bragging about shutting another car off and talking to a guy through his car radio. If you feel the legitimate need for long range radio communication get a HAM ticket and do it right. If you want to run a linear... fine run a linear. I don't care one way or another. What I do care about is propogating this crap on a Cruiser forum.
     
  17. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    [quote author=squeezer link=board=2;threadid=10340;start=msg92401#msg92401 date=1074563472]
    What you are asking about is highly illegal, this is a public forum... If somebody was asking how suitable an 80 was for jacklighting and poaching deer
    [/quote]

    That reminds me, I have GOT to get that RF window to go down faster. It's tough to swing the barrel with that sloooow window in the way. :rolleyes:

    I need to fabricate a brass catcher to hang from the sunroof shade, any ideas? ;)
     
  18. Rookie2

    Rookie2

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    Damn boys... I ain't seen this much ass since the donkey races.

    And I thought I'd get trashed tonight with the mineral oil question. Been entertaining though. And all this time I've been trying to figure out some way to zap them little punked-out mother F'ers in their little rig-a-ma-jigged Honda low-riders. Thanks for the info.

    :beer:

    Over-and-out.
    R2
     
  19. cruiserdan

    cruiserdan SupportingVendor Emeritus Moderator

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    Wax,

    Before this goes any farther I believe we should all be gentlemen about this. Please think about the question you were asking the board.
    In essence you asked. "Can I transfer my illegal, high output, radio equipment from my 60 to an 80 without harming the 80's electrical system?"

    As you are a new member without a "track record" what kind of responses would you expect? Board members are not in the habit of outlining whatever illegal activities they pursue,
    regardless of their motives for, or rationalization of, the activities.

    Well, Junk maybe. :rolleyes:
    Good luck in your quest and I know a place to buy ECU's if you fry some. ::)



    D-
     
  20. wax808

    wax808

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    [quote author=squeezer link=board=2;threadid=10340;start=msg92421#msg92421 date=1074565066]
    FCC part 95 Sub D

    RULE 10 - Power Output
    {A} Your CB station transmitter power output must not exceed the following values under any conditions:
    AM [Amplitude Modulation] - 4 watts carrier power [CP]
    SSB [Single Side-Band] - 12 watts peak envelope power [PEP]
    {B} If you need more information about the power rule, see Part 95/ Subpart E.
    {C} Use of a transmitter which has carrier [CP] or peak envelope power [PEP]in excess of that authorized voids your authority to operate the station.
    RULE 11 - Linear Amplifiers
    {A} You may not attach the following items (power amplifiers) to your type-accepted CB transmitter in any way:
    [1] External radio frequency [RF] power amplifiers, also called linear amplifiers, or linears;
    or
    [2] Any other devices which, when used with a radio transmitter as a signal source, are capable of amplifying the signal.
    {B} There are no exceptions to this rule and use of a power amplifier voids your authority to operate the station.
    {C} The FCC will presume you have used a linear or other external [RF] power amplifier if-
    [1] It is in your possession or on your premises; and
    [2] There is OTHER EVIDENCE that you have operated your CB station with more power than allowed by CB Rule 10.
    {D} Paragraph C above in this section does not apply if you hold a license in another radio service (HAM, etc.) which allows you to operate an external RF power amplifier.

    And I wouldn't give damm except you were bragging about shutting another car off and talking to a guy through his car radio. If you feel the legitimate need for long range radio communication get a HAM ticket and do it right. If you want to run a linear... fine run a linear. I don't care one way or another. What I do care about is propogating this crap on a Cruiser forum.


    [/quote]


    Oh please.... you really think that I am gonna believe that someone with all of 18 posts cares so much about this forum that he wants to squash all the illegal activity that Landcruiser owners may pursue? You need to get off your self righteous high horse and get over it. You flamed me, I called you on it, and now your just reaching.

    While your at it.... here are some other wrongs you can right: lol

    https://forum.ih8mud.com/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=8289;start=msg71509#msg71509

    https://forum.ih8mud.com/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=5924;start=msg47469#msg47469

    https://forum.ih8mud.com/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=5265;start=msg41471#msg41471


    Get to work ... your Forum needs saving ... These illegalitites MUST NOT STAND. lol... /sarcasm off
    =====================================================

    Phew.... that was easy. Anyways I hope that many of you arent turned away from running an amplifier in your rig. It really CAN help alot in many situations. I wouldnt suggest running it every time you talk.. But if you need it it sure is nice to have.


    And as far as the FCC regulations are concerned, I know it sounds a bit scary to worry about law inforcement. But believe me, they could care less unless you are interfering with people and causing problems. Just try not to key down by a cop. :)


    Well thanks for all the positive responses, and if you have any questions or need any help you can reach me at perculator808@yahoo.com. Or PM me here.