Intake/Exhaust Manifold Refresh items (3 Viewers)

Joined
Mar 28, 2020
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Steamboat Springs, Colorado
In the middle of my Desmog and I have decided to change out the manifold gaskets as I am sure they have not been done in a very long time. As has been the case with nearly all the maintenance on this vehicle. I have a machine shop locally who does this work and has been recommended by @Miloslavich (totally awesome dude and very supportive). I am trying to figure out what hardware I need for this. Looking over the many threads let me know if I am on the right track.

Manifold.gif


1984 2F engine
Starting from the top
-2 Manifold End Bolts
-4 Manifold Bolts
-2 Manifold Studs, 2 Washers, 2 Nuts

- 1 Long Heat Riser Bolt, 1 Washer
- 2 Heat Riser Bolts, 2 Washer
- 4 Manifold Carb Studs, 4 Nuts
- 1 Heat Riser Block off Plate
- 4 Horn Rings (ouch)
-4 Horn Springs
-2 Egr Studs
-3 Exhaust pipe studs (3)
- Manifold to block gasket
- 2 heat riser gaskets

Thanks for checking over my hardware list. I am looking at purchasing all of this from a dealership? Unless there is another suggestion. Thanks a bunch for the help and as always if you have any advice feel free to reach out!
 
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Seattle
The donut gasket for the exhaust down pipe and maybe the other donut gasket for the exhaust flange under truck
 
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Mar 28, 2020
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Steamboat Springs, Colorado
@3_puppies I not really sure if I have any leaks at this point out of the manifold. When I purchased the car the engine sounded great (but I have little car knowledge) but it was leaking oil from everywhere and the entire engine bay was grease/dirt covered. Over the past few months I have been replacing seals/gaskets/cleaning/learning how to work on a car engine. That being said I don't see lots of black streaks around the manifold. However when digging through all of the PO material I did see a list of items that needed to be addressed. One of those was manifold gasket. (knowing the previous owner.... which I do) I am sure he did not take care of this.I figured while apart I would just take care of it and be done.

@gt7058a is the carb insulator the black block below the carb or is it just the gasket on top of that? Thanks
 
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304
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Seattle
@gt7058a is the carb insulator the black block below the carb or is it just the gasket on top of that? Thanks
[/QUOTE]

The insulator includes the plate, base with horn, and new gasket on each side. It’s the entire assembly between carb and intake
 
Last edited:

Spike Strip

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3_Pups is right: Verify that it's leaking or you risk opening up a whole new can of worms by removing the manifold assy. If it's not leaking, that means Intake is not warped and gasket is sound.

And OSS is right, that if you just remove the assembly and only replace the gasket without checking/correcting the surfaces, you're asking for trouble.

Expect $300-500 for surfacing, new fasteners, gaskets, etc...
 
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Sounds good. I'll just run with it. This can always be done later. Verification is just a visual inspection for soot/char and noise like a clicking sound? If that is the case and it all looks good I think I will just plumb up my desmog... which could take a bit. Get the cruiser running and then if needed get dizzy and carb over to JimC for a rebuild.

Without taking off the manifold how large of a PITA is getting the J pipe gasket and cover on? Thanks
 

Spike Strip

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For the J pipe you mean the Block off Plate, from Jim C?

I'd spray the bolts with Penetrant for a couple of days and also hit them with blue torch till cherry red for a couple of heat cool cycles.

If the pipe is removed without breaking the studs, then it's just a matter of putting on the backing plate and gasket and using the CORRECT bolts to tighten - You need 'Stover' or Exhaust lock nuts

If the studs break and can't be easily removed, you may have to rem

1606604939751.png


Stover or lock nut is slightly 'Pinched' at the top to lock and prevent loosening.

1606605000033.png
 
Last edited:
Joined
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Messages
58
Location
Steamboat Springs, Colorado
@Spike Strip That is the one. I got the bolts off and the J pipe out along with the ERG. It was more reaching up into that area to get the gasket and plate in. Also, do you recommend any sealant on the plugs for the air rail, EGR bolt or the this block off (all of the Desmog kit... I know @Spike Strip your rig is not desmogged. )? Doesn't seem to be any mention of this even in the massive Desmog thread. Thanks for all your help. I am excited to get this beast up and running and actually get some baseline driving in. Since owning it I have been trying to do just delayed maintenance.
 

DrRock

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On the topic of the manifold assy itself, does anyone have a flatness tolerance from the factory? I recently did this and found that the center exhaust and intake flanges were approximately 1mm higher than the external intake and exhaust flanges. Everything was co planar though. If we go on the assumption that cast iron hardly warps, could this delta be by design? I made sure my flanges were smooth prior to re install and I used he factory gasket. I have zero leaks and pull around “20hg in vacuum so I’m thinking I’m good.

Cheers, James
 
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How many miles on your rig?

while some say dont mess with it, I'd be willing to bet based on mileage you may have some vac or exhaust leaks from your manifold. Good way to tell is with engine running spray some carb cleaner or starting fluid around the base of the intake runners. if the RPM rises, you've got vac leaks.

If you do your desmog then come to find out you've got an intake / manifold exhaust leaks, then its carb off again, vac lines again, etc. certainly an easier job once youve already got the carb off and out to Jim C. Additionally, you have an excellent resource there locally to you who is a crusier nut and has done a bunch of these. His work is excellent, and he's done 2 of mine which came out perfect . If your carb is out to Jim C and you have the time to do it right, I would.
 

ToyotaMatt

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How many miles on your rig?

while some say dont mess with it, I'd be willing to bet based on mileage you may have some vac or exhaust leaks from your manifold. Good way to tell is with engine running spray some carb cleaner or starting fluid around the base of the intake runners. if the RPM rises, you've got vac leaks.

If you do your desmog then come to find out you've got an intake / manifold exhaust leaks, then its carb off again, vac lines again, etc. certainly an easier job once youve already got the carb off and out to Jim C. Additionally, you have an excellent resource there locally to you who is a crusier nut and has done a bunch of these. His work is excellent, and he's done 2 of mine which came out perfect . If your carb is out to Jim C and you have the time to do it right, I would.
On the topic of the manifold assy itself, does anyone have a flatness tolerance from the factory? I recently did this and found that the center exhaust and intake flanges were approximately 1mm higher than the external intake and exhaust flanges. Everything was co planar though. If we go on the assumption that cast iron hardly warps, could this delta be by design? I made sure my flanges were smooth prior to re install and I used he factory gasket. I have zero leaks and pull around “20hg in vacuum so I’m thinking I’m good.

Cheers, James
@Spike Strip That is the one. I got the bolts off and the J pipe out along with the ERG. It was more reaching up into that area to get the gasket and plate in. Also, do you recommend any sealant on the plugs for the air rail, EGR bolt or the this block off (all of the Desmog kit... I know @Spike Strip your rig is not desmogged. )? Doesn't seem to be any mention of this even in the massive Desmog thread. Thanks for all your help. I am excited to get this beast up and running and actually get some baseline driving in. Since owning it I have been trying to do just delayed maintenance.


Please take a moment and explore these below Links , i have updated and over engineered various trouble spots , by ditching the old out dated 1980's technology , and brought the whole JIS topic into the year 2020 using ALL oem toyota genuine parts to Boot !


i subscribe to the factory focus point mind set approach philosophy ...............

here are just a few that relate to your manifolds pjct .......














 
Joined
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Messages
940
Location
Moscow, ID
Very interested in all of this, since I've just decided to do a nice job on a manifold refresh/refurb as one last turd-polish to get a few more years out of the old 2F before, probably, a newer engine which I'd rather build with plenty of time on the 2F's clock. The last manifold job (which I half-assed concurrently with a desmog on a nickel and dime budget in 2011) got me *almost* 40k of trouble-free service, but boy it got worse *fast* this past year. I think it was the 80mph, 7000 ft long hauls to/from Moab in 2019...it's amazing what a mechanically healthy 2F with a desmog will do with 33s and 3.70 gears, even with wonky timing and leaks, but that trip definitely took a toll on every single part that wasn't at 100% before we left.

As far as the manifold issues go, it finally started putting soot on the side of the engine under the leaking exhaust horn joint, which moved this up the 'ol repair list a few spots to 'this winter.' So, I'm happy to elbow my way into this discourse, considering this vested interest...

Anyway: what do folks think the best approach is, for a stock, machined-flat intake/exhaust pair, considering a desmog, a desire for lack of hassle on reassembly and desired longevity of the fix, for the following:

- Choice of manifold gasket -- last I heard, if you looked up a 'generic' Felpro for an FJ60, it's the same exact part as Toyota's OEM gasket, but in a different box, and it can be cheaper, sometimes. Any other Deep Lore on this? I fell for the Remflex hype in 2011, the first time I tried to fix my manifold leak, and was highly unimpressed, and the Felpro/OEM one I used after that lasted great in spite of janky half-washer BS to avoid having to get things machined.

- Hardware, both in terms of source/shopping list if you just want to replace all the rusty old crap, as well as whether to monkey with the stock combination of studs with nuts and bolts straight into the head. I remember feeling like 'there has to be a better way!' on reassembly back in 2011, like maybe ditching all of the studs, for same-spec bolts, but I didn't have an impact gun or know how easy it is to drop the skid plate and let the exhaust droop back then, or all sorts of other tricks which seem like they'd make things comparatively easy. Ten years of wrenching experience and better tools are guaranteed to make everything go smoother, considering I haven't crippled myself doing something stupid so far.

- If the goal is to not have to do the dang job twice, what's the consensus on the full parts list? I'm thinking as deep as exhaust horn rings, gaskets for *a choice* of heat riser solution/replacement.* The main goal here is to have the gaskets and all the moving parts between the exhaust and intake sorted and torqued together before I bring them to a shop to get milled, and I'd like the least goofing around to achieve that.

* Big side note: I think I have a MAF stainless steel partial-diverter plate with just a fixed, curved side and a small opening in place of the stock flapper setup, which has worked flawlessly for me, but I think the new manifold has a stock flapper I could refurbish as well). I feel like it'd be silly not to spent a little money to get something better than either of the donor setups if I'm redoing *everything*.

- While we're at it, what's good to deal with while that side (and, really, the whole top/both sides of the engine) are exposed, what are the absolute must-do jobs/checks?

Here's what I have in mind already:

-- Valve adjustment (duh)

-- Bite the bullet and replace every old/janky coolant hose/clamp
---- Radiator/cooling system flush if I'm replacing the bottom-end, annoying hoses (which I would) finally, right?
---- Does anybody have part numbers handy for reasonably priced (vs. trial-and-error'd from the local part store's generic close-enough hoses/trimmed from stuff off the shelf) heater valve hoses? The ones right up by the firewall? I'm absolutely unhappy with the janky trash I made work up there, when I 'solved' that coolant leak circa 2016. I'd be fine spending as much as $50 on the hoses if they're *actually* the right size/shape, but I'd rather spend $30 and a couple of afternoons of research back and forth at O'Reilly down the street than spend $100 on genuine Toyota hoses, if those are the two extremes. I already spent the big bucks on OEM main radiator hoses from Spectre which are just waiting to go in, so I feel like I paid my toll to the TEQ troll, vis a vis rubber hosing.

-- Core out my definitely funky/kinda clogged cat for the time being, or put a 'test pipe' in, since I'm not planning to put big money into the stock exhaust, and I'm indefinitely out of needing to worry about emissions/inspection. I figure getting it flowing freely and not having any upsteam leaks/vacuum problems and being able to finally get the timing set will make it *less* polluting than it is now with whatever function is left in the remaining intact catalytic substrate. I also don't feel bad, knowing how little this thing gets driven overall. Still don't love this, but I can't justify 'properly' dealing with the cat if I'm going to be putting some kind of V8 with custom, close-to-emissions-legal exhaust in when I ditch the 2F. I'm feeling like I'd rather commit light EPA crime and destroy my already ruined cat vs. spending $100 on a test pipe from MAF, unless my old one is worth a good fraction of that. Opinions?

Anything else obvious? I also have a badly adapted saginaw bracket in place of my original smog pump, and am thinking of rolling a permanent better bracket solution into the manifold work, since that's the side of the engine that'll be bare for a few weeks....but that's a whole other thread/line of research.
 
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Doing a full overhaul on the intake and exhaust with all new Toyota parts and machine work and you doing the labor will set you back between $800 and $1000 depending on cost of machining. I also had to drill out and time-sert all the threaded holes on my intake.
 
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Messages
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Very interested in all of this, since I've just decided to do a nice job on a manifold refresh/refurb as one last turd-polish to get a few more years out of the old 2F before, probably, a newer engine which I'd rather build with plenty of time on the 2F's clock. The last manifold job (which I half-assed concurrently with a desmog on a nickel and dime budget in 2011) got me *almost* 40k of trouble-free service, but boy it got worse *fast* this past year. I think it was the 80mph, 7000 ft long hauls to/from Moab in 2019...it's amazing what a mechanically healthy 2F with a desmog will do with 33s and 3.70 gears, even with wonky timing and leaks, but that trip definitely took a toll on every single part that wasn't at 100% before we left.

As far as the manifold issues go, it finally started putting soot on the side of the engine under the leaking exhaust horn joint, which moved this up the 'ol repair list a few spots to 'this winter.' So, I'm happy to elbow my way into this discourse, considering this vested interest...

Anyway: what do folks think the best approach is, for a stock, machined-flat intake/exhaust pair, considering a desmog, a desire for lack of hassle on reassembly and desired longevity of the fix, for the following:

- Choice of manifold gasket -- last I heard, if you looked up a 'generic' Felpro for an FJ60, it's the same exact part as Toyota's OEM gasket, but in a different box, and it can be cheaper, sometimes. Any other Deep Lore on this? I fell for the Remflex hype in 2011, the first time I tried to fix my manifold leak, and was highly unimpressed, and the Felpro/OEM one I used after that lasted great in spite of janky half-washer BS to avoid having to get things machined.

- Hardware, both in terms of source/shopping list if you just want to replace all the rusty old crap, as well as whether to monkey with the stock combination of studs with nuts and bolts straight into the head. I remember feeling like 'there has to be a better way!' on reassembly back in 2011, like maybe ditching all of the studs, for same-spec bolts, but I didn't have an impact gun or know how easy it is to drop the skid plate and let the exhaust droop back then, or all sorts of other tricks which seem like they'd make things comparatively easy. Ten years of wrenching experience and better tools are guaranteed to make everything go smoother, considering I haven't crippled myself doing something stupid so far.

- If the goal is to not have to do the dang job twice, what's the consensus on the full parts list? I'm thinking as deep as exhaust horn rings, gaskets for *a choice* of heat riser solution/replacement.* The main goal here is to have the gaskets and all the moving parts between the exhaust and intake sorted and torqued together before I bring them to a shop to get milled, and I'd like the least goofing around to achieve that.

* Big side note: I think I have a MAF stainless steel partial-diverter plate with just a fixed, curved side and a small opening in place of the stock flapper setup, which has worked flawlessly for me, but I think the new manifold has a stock flapper I could refurbish as well). I feel like it'd be silly not to spent a little money to get something better than either of the donor setups if I'm redoing *everything*.

- While we're at it, what's good to deal with while that side (and, really, the whole top/both sides of the engine) are exposed, what are the absolute must-do jobs/checks?

Here's what I have in mind already:

-- Valve adjustment (duh)

-- Bite the bullet and replace every old/janky coolant hose/clamp
---- Radiator/cooling system flush if I'm replacing the bottom-end, annoying hoses (which I would) finally, right?
---- Does anybody have part numbers handy for reasonably priced (vs. trial-and-error'd from the local part store's generic close-enough hoses/trimmed from stuff off the shelf) heater valve hoses? The ones right up by the firewall? I'm absolutely unhappy with the janky trash I made work up there, when I 'solved' that coolant leak circa 2016. I'd be fine spending as much as $50 on the hoses if they're *actually* the right size/shape, but I'd rather spend $30 and a couple of afternoons of research back and forth at O'Reilly down the street than spend $100 on genuine Toyota hoses, if those are the two extremes. I already spent the big bucks on OEM main radiator hoses from Spectre which are just waiting to go in, so I feel like I paid my toll to the TEQ troll, vis a vis rubber hosing.

-- Core out my definitely funky/kinda clogged cat for the time being, or put a 'test pipe' in, since I'm not planning to put big money into the stock exhaust, and I'm indefinitely out of needing to worry about emissions/inspection. I figure getting it flowing freely and not having any upsteam leaks/vacuum problems and being able to finally get the timing set will make it *less* polluting than it is now with whatever function is left in the remaining intact catalytic substrate. I also don't feel bad, knowing how little this thing gets driven overall. Still don't love this, but I can't justify 'properly' dealing with the cat if I'm going to be putting some kind of V8 with custom, close-to-emissions-legal exhaust in when I ditch the 2F. I'm feeling like I'd rather commit light EPA crime and destroy my already ruined cat vs. spending $100 on a test pipe from MAF, unless my old one is worth a good fraction of that. Opinions?

Anything else obvious? I also have a badly adapted saginaw bracket in place of my original smog pump, and am thinking of rolling a permanent better bracket solution into the manifold work, since that's the side of the engine that'll be bare for a few weeks....but that's a whole other thread/line of research.

send @ToyotaMatt a message and set out some time to have a phone call with him. He will send you diagrams to refer to and come up with a comprehensive list.
 

3_puppies

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Doing a full overhaul on the intake and exhaust with all new Toyota parts and machine work and you doing the labor will set you back between $800 and $1000 depending on cost of machining. I also had to drill out and time-sert all the threaded holes on my intake.


my local machine shop has charged me between $250-300 he's done 3 or 4 now for me and my customers

bummer on the threaded holes
 
Joined
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I'm comfortable dealing with any bolt/thread related issue up to and including paying a welder to fill in holes then redrilling/threading them myself. I won't be paying a machine shop for anything except making the intake and exhaust flush -- it's not worth $1000 to go all out on what's ultimately supposed to keep my 2F running okay for another 2-3 years while I sort out its replacement. If I was keeping the engine, then maybe.
 

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