Injection pump life expectancy thread

[ukaviator]

Hey everyone!

Over the years I've heard various claims of the life expectancy an injection pump has before it needs to be rebuilt.

Of course it all depends on the type of injection pump, modifications done to it etc

I'm personally interested to know what the life expectancy of a 1HDFT is before rebuild is in order, but to make is thread more useful and interesting lets hear it from everyone what they are getting from their IP's

Also if you did have to get your pump rebuilt, post up who did it and how much, this too might help others out some.

As a base line lets assume the pump is stock with no mods or fuel tweaking

3B
13BT
12HT
2H
1HDT
1HDFT
1HDFTE

Etc etc

 

[canucksafari]

Rotary Pumps are typically from between 200,000 - 400,000 kms. Inline Pumps will likely outlast the engine. A lot depends on the quality of your fuel and you keeping up with your maintenance. . Installing a pull through electric pump is supposed to help increase longevity of the lift pumps in the rotary IPs. I am not sure what modification done to the pump will have a negative impact on it.

 

[roscoFJ73]

3B
13BT
12HT
2H
1HDT
1HDFT
1HDFTE

Etc etc

Why do you hate 1PZ and 1HZ?

 

[hybric4x4diesel]

hi ,so far to my personal understanding inline pump will alway out last ip,due to a few reasons, inline pump was design with engine oil for lube,but ip depends on diesel fuel for lube. so thats make a big difference & finally inline pump has multiple plungers design for each cylinder fueling where as ip has one plunger to supply all cylinders-more works & more ware, so as to all others moving parts.but with propper lube added to our low surpher diesel fuel ,ip will last much longer& are cheaper to rebuild with cost effect.most of the ip pump will show sign for fuel leak & not much on hard parts. inline pump will normally cost lot more for rebuild.so both has the good & the bad.

 

[ukaviator]

Why do you hate 1PZ and 1HZ?

It was late and I couldn't remember all the variants hence the "etc etc" at the bottom

 

[canucksafari]

hi ,so far to my personal understanding inline pump will alway out last ip,due to a few reasons, inline pump was design with engine oil for lube,but ip depends on diesel fuel for lube. so thats make a big difference & finally inline pump has multiple plungers design for each cylinder fueling where as ip has one plunger to supply all cylinders-more works & more ware, so as to all others moving parts.but with propper lube added to our low surpher diesel fuel ,ip will last much longer& are cheaper to rebuild with cost effect.most of the ip pump will show sign for fuel leak & not much on hard parts. inline pump will normally cost lot more for rebuild.so both has the good & the bad.

John's described the difference very well here.

Many rotary pumps get rebuilt when they start to leak. It is kind of like doing a full engine rebuild when only a head gasket is needed. But that is what many fuel injection shops do. My recommendation is to buy yourself a seal kit for your IP.

A couple weeks ago I discovered a leak on the IP in my wife's rig in the exact same spot I had on mine 5 years ago. It cost me $2000 to get mine fixed and 3 weeks without my truck running. On the wife's rig, it took me less than 5 minutes to replace the leaky O ring on the IP with a good one out of an $18 OEM seal kit. Knowledge really is money.

 

[hybric4x4diesel]

yea john,just to let you know when one rubber seal leaks, every one is on the way so why not change them all instead going back and forth doing it one at a time & it will drive you nut!.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Many rotary pumps get rebuilt when they start to leak. It is kind of like doing a full engine rebuild when only a head gasket is needed. But that is what many fuel injection shops do. .

They are only crooks if they do that. Owners need to read up on pump terminology,hang around the shop and ask the hard questions.
If you stand around and meekly nod as they read out long lists of big dollar parts,then you will be taken for a ride.

On my 1st pump rebuild,the shop happily allowed me to inspect the worn parts and even take pictures for internet use.
That pump was about $1800AUD (2006) with 6 rebuilt injectors
The pump had a new plunger,housing,timer piston and distributor head.Only a few of the little bits inside were re used.
I think the pump parts were around $1200 on their own

I got charged $450AUD to have another 1HZ pump stripped,cleaned and reassembled with new gaskets and seals.
That also included a bench test which gave it a clean bill of health.
There was nothing wrong with the pump except it had been removed from the engine and left sitting with diesel inside,which dried up.

 

[hybric4x4diesel]

yes rosco, most of the us over here have little infors w/low suff diesel fuel in US & CN,(those infos never plubish in anyway),due to emission they start cutting down those lube additivers & suff as early as 2002. but not in your area i suppose.so those ve pumps & nozzles wear down in no time. then one to two year later in US i see 5% bio is added to all diesel fuel, cn is following that route soon.some cummins & ford diesel are running very high injection pressure on the common rail with ceramic tip on the nozzles.they run as high as 28000 injection pressure.so any diesel w/ bio contain more then 8% has more chance to crack the ceramic tips.

 

[canucksafari]

Rosco, I got ripped off because I did not know any better. To be fair, the injection shop which tore down my IP on my 5 spd and rebuilt it only charged about $600 before tax. One part had a little wear. The main issue was old seals. The service manager made the mistake of showing me the itemized bill. They were going to charge me $2400 before tax for the whole job until I saw the itemized bill. I kind of lost it when I calculated the mechanical bill for removal and fitting the IP, timing the IP and install the new injectors I supplied them with was $1800. In the end I negotiated with them and very reluctantly paid $2000 including tax. With a well respected fuel injection shop, one should not have to pay for their learning curve and incompetence, especially after I first asked them if they knew how to work on this vehicle and if they needed a copy of the FSM.

I have since spoken with the guys in the fuel injection shop a number of times. I will never go back to their "service" office or deal with their mechanics. The techs in the fuel injection shop all echo what John has said, always use a lubrication additive with all rotary pumps. They sell Stanadyne lube products, but one tech told me that chainsaw oil, veggie oil or other lube additives are just as good. He also said it is much more important to use the lube at every fill than it is to do regular fuel system purges.

 

[gerg]

Hmm smells like BD. The only thing I get from those guys is Amsoil HD gear oil and some exhaust flanges from their steel bin.

 

[canucksafari]

Hmm smells like BD. The only thing I get from those guys is Amsoil HD gear oil and some exhaust flanges from their steel bin.

If it smell like a pig, then it usually is a pig. And the only pig I want has FJ55 in its name or is ready for cooking.

 

[hybric4x4diesel]

yep john we some time got ripped off,me too- learn the hard way.

 

[vwluv10338]

My 2H pump came off my beat to hell 1981 unknown mileage engine. When they tested the pumop they said it just needed adjustments and they resealed it, new diaphram, fresh paint etc... This was along with an injector rebuild and I think my total was around $900 USD last year.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Rosco, I got ripped off because I did not know any better. To be fair, the injection shop which tore down my IP on my 5 spd and rebuilt it only charged about $600 before tax. One part had a little wear. The main issue was old seals. The service manager made the mistake of showing me the itemized bill. They were going to charge me $2400 before tax for the whole job until I saw the itemized bill. I kind of lost it when I calculated the mechanical bill for removal and fitting the IP, timing the IP and install the new injectors I supplied them with was $1800. In the end I negotiated with them and very reluctantly paid $2000 including tax. With a well respected fuel injection shop, one should not have to pay for their learning curve and incompetence, especially after I first asked them if they knew how to work on this vehicle and if they needed a copy of the FSM.

.

Yes,we all learn from our mistakes and experiences. Standing up for yourself and demanding to see itemised labour and parts costs terrifies the less than honest work shops.
There is nothing they hate more than an irate customer who is armed with some knowledge and is prepared to sink the fangs in.
Was this over a Bosch Zexel pump? The shop I go to reckon they are one of the better rotary fuel pumps even though they have a smaller shaft diameter and smaller bearing(17mm vs 19mm)than the 1HZ 1 HDT pump.

 

[roscoFJ73]

yes rosco, most of the us over here have little infors w/low suff diesel fuel in US & CN,(those infos never plubish in anyway),due to emission they start cutting down those lube additivers & suff as early as 2002. but not in your area i suppose.so those ve pumps & nozzles wear down in no time. then one to two year later in US i see 5% bio is added to all diesel fuel, cn is following that route soon.some cummins & ford diesel are running very high injection pressure on the common rail with ceramic tip on the nozzles.they run as high as 28000 injection pressure.so any diesel w/ bio contain more then 8% has more chance to crack the ceramic tips.

Its my understanding that when they removed the sulpher,it was replaced with another lubricating agent.
Im not sure if its as bad as they say because Im still running the original pump on my HZJ75 with 275000 klms and we have had low sulpher diesel as long as the US.
Occasionally I fill up on 20% bio diesel belnd and once or twice a year I use some Toyota diesel injection cleaner.
Ultra high injection pressures are a fact of life in keeping emission levels low and HP up and some of them now have injectors that spray 5 times on each stroke.

 

[roscoFJ73]

Some before and after pics of what a pump thats been soaking in salt water for months can be turned into by someone who is good at their trade.

These are the common wear points on the 1HZ pumps.I suppose the 1HD T wears much the same.
It also had some wear in the main shaft (1st pic ,far right)but it was salvagable with a little work on a lathe

And $1800 later. Pump never missed a beat and was still going strong when I sold the vehicle 5 years later

 

[canucksafari]

Was this over a Bosch Zexel pump? The shop I go to reckon they are one of the better rotary fuel pumps even though they have a smaller shaft diameter and smaller bearing(17mm vs 19mm)than the 1HZ 1 HDT pump.

Yes, it was a Bosch Zexel pump. One of the more common mods on this pump is to add the plunger from the 1HZ or 1HD-T Bosch Denso pump. All the Patrol comp trucks do this mod along with the addition of an aneroid which the Zexel pump does not have.

Funny thing is I would love to have the inline pump that was available on early TD4.2s but the Spanish guys want the rotary pumps because they thing they will deliver a lot more power. Personally, I'd be happier with the longevity of an inline pump and a turbo with modest boost for just a bit more grunt on long grades on the highway and to keep the EGTs down.

When the weather gets a bit better, I will likely pull the IP on my wife's rig and replace all the seals as John recommends. I have a fresh set of injectors to install as well. From what I have seen of Safari injectors coming our of fresh JDM rigs, the tips are all badly carboned up. I have not touched her rig's injectors yet as it still runs very well. But If I am going to have to bleed them I might as well pull them and put them on my test bench to check the spray pattern and breaking pressure.

 

[roscoFJ73]

From what I have seen of Safari injectors coming our of fresh JDM rigs, the tips are all badly carboned up. .

From idling around in Japanese traffic? It would be interseting to see what a few thousand klms open road driving with some injector cleaner would do.

 

[canucksafari]

From idling around in Japanese traffic? It would be interseting to see what a few thousand klms open road driving with some injector cleaner would do.

If I remember, I will take pics and post them when I pull the injectors on my wife's rig. It was put on a diet of Power Service's diesel additives with every fill from 84,000 kms to now over 140,000 kms. Both their summer and winter formulations include a lubricant, cetane boost and a fuel system cleaner. I also did one Lubro Moly diesel purge in that time frame and one lazy man's filter fill of Seafoam on the last fuel filter change.