Builds Homer's 2003 GX470 Build 8.2 4.56 2.5 34s (5 Viewers)

[HomersCanyonero]

One more thing for today...I finally pulled the trigger and ordered the Gobi ladder for the GX470. Minimum 12 weeks for shipping and up to 16 weeks. Really wanted the ladder for cool look factor and to carry extra gas containers on the ladder. So, I'm looking for a mid to late June 2019 delivery.

When will this build end? At least I'm on the low budget side of things compared to Dan! Knock on wood I don't get rear gear issues.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

My Apex recovery points arrived and they are beefy. I took some pictures that include a Costco water bottle (16.9 fl. oz) to give some perspective as to the size. I installed them in like 30 minutes and took a video, but it's kinda lame. I did have to disconnect the sway bars (and reconnect them) in order to attach these beefy recovery points.

The Apex Overland web site says they come with Grade 8 hardware. However, they came with Metric 8.8 hardware which is the equivalent to Grade 5 hardware. I sent Apex an e-mail to see if they send me Grade 8 hardware (which is equivalent to Metric 10.9 hardware). I'm just concerned that the weak point are the bolts which are advertised as a strong Grade 8, but come with the weaker Grade 5. See Understanding Fastener Grades and Classes - Fastener Mart for more details on the hardware.

Let's see what Apex Overland has to say. They either need to change their web site to advertise Metric Class 8.8 hardware or ship with Grade 8 hardware. Also, they claim that their bolts are super strong like 20,000 lbs, but not sure that's achieved with the Grade 5 (Metric Class 8.8) bolts included in the kit.

[Update -- 2019-04-03] Josh from Apex Overland replied to my e-mail. He says that the added M12 hex bolt (Metric 8.8 = Grade 5) is rated at over 23K lbf.ft (pound force foot) which is just for that one bolt that attaches to the side of the horn above the factory tie down loops. The 3 other replacement bolts (two for the sway bar and one for a small bracket) are also rated Metric 8.8 = Grade 5. He says all these Metric 8.8 bolts exceed the rating of the factory inserts in the frame, so that having stronger rated bolts might just rip through the frame like a can opener if you pull with force that exceeds the frame insert limits. The bottom line is he's saying the Metric Class 8.8 = Grade 5 bolts are fine and I saw that he just updated the web site. Since Toyota used Metric 10.9 bolts on the sway bar and the small bracket, I might just upgrade them on my own since I'm anal like that.

[Second Update -- 2019-04-04] I still think that the Apex Recovery Points are the strongest in the market. They really strengthen the horns and cross bar below the frame. I'm going to upgrade the bolts from Metric Class 8.8 = Grade 5 to Metric Class 10.9 = Grade 8. I just feel that I need to put Grade 8 bolts just like Toyota and most car manufacturers recommend for your suspension parts.

And the Front Runner tie down rings arrived as well (see picture). I'll be posting soon on my experiment with 4 stock oem roof rack cross bars. I'm going to drill the stock eom cross bars to fit the Front Runner tie down rings. Stay tuned.

Here's my video...

GX470 Installation Video of Apex Overland Recovery Points

 

[ADVFamilyHauler]

Good looking build! How are you liking the rocksteady skids? I am thinking about going with them. Just wish they were steel. Can’t find any steel skids for my kdss.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Aluminum is lighter, but softer. I never hit my underside when I didn't have skid plates, but once I added the skid plates...then I tried to go over boulders because I had the skids plates! LOL

Well, I hit the front skid plate on a boulder and made a dent. Not bad, but adding skid plates makes you want to go over boulders more often even if you don't have to.

I never hit the steel skid plates on the 80, so I don't know how much stronger they are compared to aluminum. My RockSteady are holding up okay since I've only hit them once.

Three things to watch out for the RockSteady skids plates. First, the transfer case skid plate is not compatible with my MetalTech OPOR rock sliders. They both bolt to the same hole on the frame, so you have to modify either the rock slider leg or the transfer case steel bracket. I still haven't figured out how to install the transfer case skid plate. The other two skids plates were super easy to install.

Second, the engine skid plate didn't come with the hole for the oil change. I sent them an e-mail, but they said that they removed the hole to prevent the engine skid plate from getting stuck on rocks. They haven't updated all their pictures on their web site and many pictures still show the hole in the skid plate, but this requires that you remove the skids plates to change the oil or figure out a way to route the oil around the skid plate. This is not a problem for most people and I don't do my own oil changes, but I worry that the monkeys changing the oil will lose the plastic black spacers when they take off the skid plates.

Third, I didn't get advertised zinc plated spacers and instead I got black plastic spacers.

On the positive side, the skid plates are well made, shipped on time, arrived in new condition, have great colors to choose from, and come with the correct Metric 10.9 bolts which have the appropriate strength to replace the factory bolts (also Metric 10.9). They are in San Diego which is only a couple of hours from me.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

I acquired a pair of used/beat-up OEM roof rack cross bars that already had scratches and holes. The holes are too small to fit the M8-1.25 bolts that come with the Front Runner tie down rings, so I'll have to drill a little bigger holes.

I also ordered longer M8x1.25 bolts. The ones that come with the Front Runner tie down rings are like 15mm long and are too short to go through the stock oem crossbars, so I ordered some that are 30 mm long (about 1/2" longer). I plan to run the rings thru the holes in the cross bars to tie down my gear.

I plan to have 4 stock oem cross bars to carry some light gear up in the roof rack. Once I get my order of bolts, I'll post more pictures of the finished project. This is the poor man's roof rack project to hold lightweight items on the roof rack.

Used oem roof rack cross bars = $20
Front Runner tie down rings = $51 (including shipping for 10 rings)
Longer replacement bolts (M8-1.25x35mm) for rings = $5


The new bolts arrived and I was able to install the rings on the edge of the 4 stock oem cross bars. I also had car touch up paint for my LS460 that was close to the color of the stock crossbars, so I touched up the crossbars. Since I put two nylon washers on the bolt (one on top and one on the bottom), the 30mm is barely long enough to go into the ring about 3/4ths of the way in. 35mm bolts would have been a better fit.

By the way, prior to acquiring the two extra used oem cross bars for $20, I was considering these replacement cross bars that seem a lot more sturdy, more functional, and use the oem side rails. For $300, you get 4 commercially made crossbars that look pretty strong: LFD Off-Road Ruggedized Cross Bar Sets: https://www.apexoverland.com/shop-by-brand/LFD-Off-Road-Ruggedized-Cross-Bar-Sets-p97509282

 

[HomersCanyonero]

And of course, I ordered the Metric Class 10.9 = Grade 8 bolts to replace the Metric Class 8.8 = Grade 5 bolts that came with the Apex Overland Recovery Points. I think the price of all these 8 bolts was like $15 including shipping from BoltDepot.com, but then I added more bolts and nylon washers for my poor man’s roof rack project.

Anyways, $15 for peace of mind that I have bolts that are meant for suspensions for automobile use and equal what Toyota put in there to hold the sway bars bracket and the upper hose bracket. It could be just me being paranoid, but that's the main reason I got these beefy recovery points...I think the Apex recovery points significantly strengthen those horns and the cross bar that have the stock oem tie down loops.

I got the bolt specs from Josh at Apex Overland. Received the Class 10.9 = Grade 8 bolts and installed them. Now I feel better. I also inspected all the other bolts for aftermarket gear like my sliders and skid plates. Everything is Class 10.9 = Grade 8.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

I was recently asked a question about the tricked out rear air bags. Since I didn't do this trick myself, but I've been promoting it...I figured I go back and check how it was done on my 2003 GX470 for documentation purposes.

Also, it's been bothering me that the factory hub to fender measurements on the rear as posted by @MaverickFiveO in his thread were not quite adding up for me. I should be raised about 1.25" in the rear with the air bag trick, but sounds like I'm only raised about 3/4" based on those factory fresh theoretical measurements.

Anyways, here's how the trick for the rear air height sensors was done. Even though the driver's side was tricked more to compensate for a driver's lean, I'm still leaning to the driver's side by 1/4". I went back and got some information from the www.toyota120.com site in this post, so I want to give them kudos for mentioning this trick a few years ago.

By the way, there were two tricks to lower the air height sensors. Mine has the washer/nut trick to lower the sensor bracket in order to raise the air bags. It's supposed to be a 3:1 ratio.

Here are my hub to fender measurements as I sit today:
FD = 22.5"
FP = 22.75"
RD = 22.375"
RP = 22.625"

Here's the calculated fresh off the factory numbers which unfortunately don't quite add up for my current lift:
FD = 20.5" 20.25"
FP = 20.5" 20.25"
RD = 21.75" 21.0"
RP = 21.75" 21.0"

 

[MaverickFiveO]

I was recently asked a question about the tricked out rear air bags. Since I didn't do this trick myself, but I've been promoting it...I figured I go back and check how it was done on my 2003 GX470 for documentation purposes.

Also, it's been bothering me that the factory hub to fender measurements on the rear as posted by @MaverickFiveO in his thread were not quite adding up for me. I should be raised about 1.25" in the rear with the air bag trick, but sounds like I'm only raised about 3/4" based on those factory fresh theoretical measurements.

Anyways, here's how the trick for the rear air height sensors was done. Even though the driver's side was tricked more to compensate for a driver's lean, I'm still leaning to the driver's side by 1/4". I went back and got some information from the www.toyota120.com site in this post, so I want to give them kudos for mentioning this trick a few years ago.

By the way, there were two tricks to lower the air height sensors. Mine has the washer/nut trick to lower the sensor bracket in order to raise the air bags. It's supposed to be a 3:1 ratio.

Here are my hub to fender measurements as I sit today:
FD = 22.5"
FP = 22.75"
RD = 22.375"
RP = 22.625"

Here's the calculated fresh off the factory numbers which unfortunately don't quite add up for my current lift:
FD = 20.5"
FP = 20.5"
RD = 21.75"
RP = 21.75"


View attachment 1953878View attachment 1953879

This brings up something that had been bothering me, actually. People reported different amounts of gain in the "high" setting for the rear airbags, either up to 22.5" or 23". @ajk970 reported only 22.5", but @Brake Weight reported 23" aired up. Maybe I was wrong to assume that the sensors are constant or how they measure "low", "normal", and "high".

The sag was based off of 4 people's measurements, and the rear was based off of that assumption that they were the same due to the air bags being constant so there is plenty of room for error. Looks like it's back to the drawing board!

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Yeah, a friend of mine who just got a stock 2006 GX470 reported 19.5 hub to fender all around and I've wondered why the rear is so low. If the height sensors are supposed to keep a certain height, then not sure why his is so low. I expect the rear to be somewhat constant due to the airbags, but the front should be all over the place due to sagging coils.

Also, there's a lot of wiggle room in how people are measuring hub to fender. My wheel center caps are too far in without any logo or marking that lets me place the measuring tape precisely at half the hub. Next, the bottom of the fender lip is curved and at an angle, so there's a lot of room for error there too. And finally, as the air system ages (sensors, bags, pump), I wonder how precise it works.

So, there's a lot of error involved for sure. Maybe the measurements should say +/- 0.5" to compensate for the error. LOL

Anyways, I thought that it was a good idea to get the factory fresh measurements, so that we can get an idea of what lift we are running after upgrades.

The bottom line is that hub to fender still gives you a good indication as to how high/low you are now with your mods/upgrades compared to others who report their hub to fender measurements.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

OMG! I almost ate it down a ravine near a place called Chicken Rock on South Park Canyon doing the Pleasant Canyon Loop near Death Valley NP by Ballarat.

I got stuck on a big rock and my ATRAC didn't help. A guy named Steve on a Suzuki Sumari with a 2K lb winch helped me reverse over a big rock that was hanging my front tire. My friend is going to send me pictures of this pickle I was in and I'll post them later, but this was the most difficult trail I've ever done. Probably a difficulty of 7, but scared straight!

Spent two nights at the cabins. One is called Stone Cabin and the other Briggs Mine Cabin. These were the best cabins I've ever camped at.

Here's a link to a web site that describes this loop:

Pleasant Canyon Road

Pleasant Canyon Road/South Park 4x4 Loop is a very challenging trail located in the Death Valley National Park, in California, USA. Rough 4WD vehicle needed. Washouts and large boulders. Narrow, rocky road for experienced 4WD drivers only. It’s one of the challenging Backcountry roads in t...

www.dangerousroads.org

 

[ADVFamilyHauler]

OMG! I almost ate it down a ravine near a place called Chicken Rock on South Park Canyon doing the Pleasant Canyon Loop near Death Valley NP by Ballarat.

I got stuck on a big rock and my ATRAC didn't help. A guy named Steve on a Suzuki Sumari with a 2K lb winch helped me reverse over a big rock that was hanging my front tire. My friend is going to send me pictures of this pickle I was in and I'll post them later, but this was the most difficult trail I've ever done. Probably a difficulty of 7, but scared straight!

Spent two nights at the cabins. One is called Stone Cabin and the other Briggs Mine Cabin. These were the best cabins I've ever camped at.

Here's a link to a web site that describes this loop:

Pleasant Canyon Road

Pleasant Canyon Road/South Park 4x4 Loop is a very challenging trail located in the Death Valley National Park, in California, USA. Rough 4WD vehicle needed. Washouts and large boulders. Narrow, rocky road for experienced 4WD drivers only. It’s one of the challenging Backcountry roads in t...

www.dangerousroads.org

View attachment 1973609View attachment 1973610View attachment 1973611View attachment 1973612

Those skids are bright! Looks like a fun trip.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

 

[HomersCanyonero]

Since my last offroad trip, I’ve been thinking about improving the articulation and traction on my GX470.

I still dont know what’s the best bang for the buck, but I’m still researching. I want to keep a mild ~2.25” lift in front and ~1.5” lift in rear to level things out. I don’t want to be too tall.

Rear: [Updated 2020-05-25 with what I ended up doing.]

1. Convert to rear to Dobinson C59-675V variable load rate springs. $150 used plus labor to install.
2. Install Icon MT Extended Travel 56550 rear shocks. $295 plus labor.
3. MT conversion kit...only paid $110 for the stage 2 kit with credits, MT gift card from previous purchase, and discounts.
4. MT extend brake lines. $72 plus labor.
5. Extend rear sway bar end links with 4-Runner Pro-Forged which are 1" longer than stock GX470 sway bar end links. You want to extend the sway bar end links 50% of your rear lift. I got a little over a 2" rear lift, so the 1" longer Proforged 113-10144 worked great. $50 installed myself.
6. Bump stop extension brackets. Needed? Don’t know yet. Still investigating.
7. Total rear upgrade parts only was $682.28 taxed and shipped. Labor was $265 for rear conversion and extended rear brake lines.
8. Didn't buy rear lower links until I bend my current OEM ones. Didn't get rear upper links either.

Front:

1. 650 700 lbf/in standard travel front coils or better. The key is not to have too soft coils if you want to remove front sway bar.
2. Keep my Bilstein 6112 shocks 2.5” diameter bodies. Standard travel.
3. Keep total chaos UCAs.
4. Keep new OEM LCAs.
5. Should I put Limit straps to restrict travel and protect front shocks when removing front sway bar? I'm not sure I'll remove the front sway bar.

 

[ADVFamilyHauler]

Since my last offroad trip, I’ve been thinking about improving the articulation and traction on my GX470.

I still dont know what’s the best bang for the buck, but I’m still researching. I want to keep a mild ~2.25” lift in front and ~1.5” lift in rear to level things out. I don’t want to be too tall.

Rear:

1. Convert to variable rate rear springs
2. Anti-rock sway bars
3. Extend brake lines
4. Long travel shocks? Or standard?
5. Panhard correction kit? Fixes drivers side lean?

Front:

1. 650 lbs/in coils
2. Keep my Bilstein 6112 shocks 2.5” diameter bodies
3. Keep total chaos UCAs
4. Keep new OEM LCAs

Will this give me more articulation in rear, so better traction? I don’t know yet.

Anyone have ideas please tell!

If you go with the 650 springs you could run without the front sway bar. I took mine off when I had the Tacoma. If I had a GX without KDSS I would have removed both sway bars.
*not my fault if you crash without swaybars. Remove at your own risk.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

I saw the post byDan and others that it’s dangerous to remove both sway bars.

If you remove only one sway bar, which one gets you better results? Front? Or rear?

 

[HomersCanyonero]

By the way, I’ve seen a YouTube video where kdss gives you like 4”+ of added articulation over non-kdss gx470s. Both were stock, so you have good articulation with kdss.

 

[James C]

Also looking for some increased articulation without going broke.

I've been very happy with 660lb springs in front and no sway bar, however it's a decent lift even with a bumper and winch. I'm looking to step up my rear springs now because of the squat. The idea behind removing the front sway bar was getting the IFS to be more "independent".

I wouldn't bother with progressive rate / long travel rear springs unless you go with extended struts as well. I'm going to try the procomp ones the FJ guys use before dropping coin on icons or something.

Anti-rock sounds awesome, but I think starting with extended rear sway bar end links would be a cheaper / easier start.

Doesn't seem like you can get any more travel in the front without some serious $$$

 

[HomersCanyonero]

@James C good points.

Removing the front sway bars and adding upgraded UCAs and stiffer coils like ~650 700 lbs/in might be a good value option. How much added articulation you think you get in the front with your setup?

For the rear, progressive coils is to deal with the different weight you might throw in the back. I like your option to just extend the rear sway bar end links. Again, what’s the gain in rear articulation with this change?

The more I research on the rear, the more mods I come up with.

 

[ADVFamilyHauler]

@James C good points.

Removing the front sway bars and adding upgraded UCAs and stiffer coils like ~650 lbs/in might be a good value option. How much added articulation you think you get in the front with your setup?

For the rear, progressive coils is to deal with the different weight you might throw in the back. I like your option to just extend the rear sway bar end links. Again, what’s the gain in rear articulation with this change?

The more I research on the rear, the more mods I come up with.

Mods are never ending

 

[James C]

Haha truth ^

With my links extended, I'm pretty sure it's my shocks limiting the articulation. Right now my plan for the rear is:

1) long travel springs: $200
2) Super cheap Pro Comp shocks with 12.7" of travel: $76
3) Extended break lines: installed already, boom foresight
4) Bump stop spacers: scrap metal
5) Extended wheel speed sensor lines (not sure if needed)

After that, I think it's the upper and lower links that bind and restrict travel. Unfortunately those are pretty pricey, but I have a feeling I'll destroy at least my OEM lower ones this summer so I might be in the market anyway.

Panhard correction kit vs. extended panhard is a decision for later times