help with adapter 4bt to A440F

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I've been looking on line, called Advanced Adapters and searching this site and others for information and availibility for an adapter to swap in a 4bt into my TLC FJ80 with the A440F transmission with no luck. I really do not want to swap my entire drive train just to install the 4bt as the costs are going to get out of hand quick.

If anyone knows where to get one, if there even is one made and available new or used or can steer me in the right direction please let me know.
 
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If the 4bt is out of a step van, I'm under the impression it has a sbc 350 bolt pattern. I don't know about the starter spacing though.
 
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JohnR,
Do you know if the bolt pattern is the same as the Toyota 3FE & A440F trans? That would make my job much easier but I don't think it is? Anyone chime in please.
I haven't picked up the 4bt yet as I'm trying to research what I need and what are my best options but yes it will likely come out of a Frito Lay van.
 
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If I'm right, and I very well may not be, as I haven't done a conversion myself. Just heresay I've read through forums..

(P/N 712535-B) | Advance Adapters may work for your application. Like I said, I am just going by what I remember reading off a few conversion threads.

Personally, I doubt the a440F would live behind a 4bt. I doubt the axles would either. Especially once you start playing with the 4bt. I can almost guarantee you'll rip even a built a440 to shreds with a 4bt. They're just.. torque monsters with no regard for the rest of your drivetrain or wallet.
 
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The axles hold up fine... My 4BT with NV4500 and Orion in my 80 Fully Loaded has seen its share of abuse such as Rubicon and they hold up fine running 305's. Do an NV4500 as you will be much happier...
 

RockJock82

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A 4BT will smoke the A440 for sure. It is primarily do to the amount of torque the motor puts out at a low RPM (equals high heat equals smoked transmission). Not only that but the gasser torque converter is too high of a stall. Save your self time and money and go with a GM auto or Dodge nv4500. I have built tons of different combinations with these motors. Let me know if you have any questions.
 

RockJock82

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JohnR,
Do you know if the bolt pattern is the same as the Toyota 3FE & A440F trans? That would make my job much easier but I don't think it is? Anyone chime in please.
I haven't picked up the 4bt yet as I'm trying to research what I need and what are my best options but yes it will likely come out of a Frito Lay van.

Find a 4BTA with the GM auto, it will be the cheapest route to go when dealing with tcase adapters and so on..
 
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True on the two posts above me, but the th350 is a 3speed non-od tranny. Not really good at all for fuel economy or highway driving. From what I've gathered here, FJ80 people pride themselves on a vehicle that can be beat on the trail, then drive home and get groceries. A th350 would kill that. I'm actually currently parting out my 215hp 6bt / nv4500 / 241dld with d80/d60 axles on another forum. I was hoping to sell the drivetrain complete though. The Chrysler 727 and derivatives are very popular transmissions on-par with the th350. The 4speed version of the 727 is the 47rh and the 48re (used on dodge rams w/ cummins). The first being all mechanical with a kick-down cable, and the latter being a solenoid controlled overdrive section, and computer controlled govenor. Mating a 4bt to a 47re would be very easy, cheap, no computer to worry about, and I'm sure an adapter could be found to mate the FJ80 tc (sorry, I'm not familiar with it's designation) to the 47re. Built 47re's can take a whole lot of punishment with some work (most notably larger thrust washer oil cooling passages). Most people with 07.5 and newer dodge diesels (cummins 6.7) who are competitive (drag racing / sled pulling) ditch the 6speed automatic (68re) and drop in a 48re with aftermarket controller.. only reason they didn't go with the 47re is because it would be exceedingly difficult to get a kick-down cable working. 47re's mildly built don't go for much.. A very good TC (single disk, no need for triple with a 4bt at any power level you're realistically going to be going for) and valve body would set you for life with a 47re. I may suggest 'splurging' on an input shaft for good measure, just because I'm an proponent for upgrading input shafts (after breaking... way too many).
 
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The 47RE is electronically controlled... You want the 47RH as is it full mechanical, well except you have to add a toggle switch or two for the overdrive and lockup torque converter. (Dodge used this tranny for 2yrs) I believe the RE can be converted to an RH but it requires $$$$.

The 48RE is a MONSTER tranny, and like the 47RE it is electronically controlled...

A Standard tranny is the way to go as the "built" slushboxes occasionally fail and they cost $3800+. The TH-400 has no problems behind the 4BT BUT no overdrive and alot of parasitic loss, TH-350's can be built but due to no overdrive it's better to use the TH-400 since everything inside is bigger. Rumor has it that the TH-700R4's can be built to handle the 4BT as well, I am on the fence on this one... The ony other automatic I would try behind the 4BT would be the 4L80E but once again you will need an electronic "brain" to use it, or can do a manual valve body and control all shifts but that can be a pain.

Sorry, about the bellhousings/engine endplates.. I have two 4BT's for Jeep Projects, on one of them I have a GM rear engine plate/flexplate combo. On the other I have a Ford rear engine plate/flywheel combo. These normally go for around $200. (I am looking for NV4500's and NP203/NP205's with passenger side drop to put behind them)
 
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RockJock82

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I took a 47rh and added all 48re internals to obtain the best of both worlds. 47re can be turned into a 47rh but you need to change out the VB and OD unit.. So in the long run your better off getting a RH version. If you did run a Dodge tranny how would you adapt it to the LC tcase? I love the simplicity of the Dodge trans, if built correctly they can take an ass beating..
 

RockDoc

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I wouldn't write off the A440F till you hear from someone who has actually run one behind a Cummins. They did come behind the 12HT (with a different convertor and valvebody mind you) and I know of atleast one person who had one behind a 6BT (CodyC I believe is his username here)..... I think he went to a domestic manual tranny after a while, but IIRC the issues were with flexplates tearing up rather than anything inside the tranmission proper.

That said I'm a gasser with no first hand experiece.. :meh:
 
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my friend runs the 4bt with 700r4 tranny and stock 80series tcase, he is on his second 700r4
 

RockJock82

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my friend runs the 4bt with 700r4 tranny and stock 80series tcase, he is on his second 700r4

The 700r4 will live behind a 4BT but it needs some parts added and a good converter.. Remember the 4BT reaches peak torque at around roughly 1200-1300 rpms where as a gas engine is double that if not more.
 
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Thanks everyone for the input and information. Some questions for you guys.

ajax1, why is your friend on his second 700r4?

Is the NV4500 or NV5600 a manual transmission?

How much trouble/work & expense would it be to install all the necessary parts in a vehicle with an automatic? My '91 FJ80 never came with a manual trans right? If it can be done where do i find all the parts i need and from what vehicle?

I personally would prefer a MT but I figured it couldn't be done in this vehicle.
 

RockJock82

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Thanks everyone for the input and information. Some questions for you guys.

ajax1, why is your friend on his second 700r4?

Is the NV4500 or NV5600 a manual transmission?

How much trouble/work & expense would it be to install all the necessary parts in a vehicle with an automatic? My '91 FJ80 never came with a manual trans right? If it can be done where do i find all the parts i need and from what vehicle?

I personally would prefer a MT but I figured it couldn't be done in this vehicle.

Yes the NV4500 (5spd) and NV5600 (6spd) are manual transmissions. The earlier NV4500's had issues with the 5th gear coming loosing and causing some damage. The NV5600 is a longer transmission but no real complaints about it. I personally like Automatics unless you are towing. An auto swap would in my honest opinion be a lot easier to accomplish in your FJ80.
 

PhrogsPhorever

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The 700r4 will live behind a 4BT but it needs some parts added and a good converter.. Remember the 4BT reaches peak torque at around roughly 1200-1300 rpms where as a gas engine is double that if not more.

x2. I have a TCC Panther 700R4 behind my 4BTA (2001 reman 120HP/327ft-lb) with a early model Landcruiser split/case to run RWD on the road, tranny is well built with ~15K plus on it so far and no issues aside from a wave ring adapter issue that was used in the install by Proffitt's. The overdrive lockout is great for cruising on the highway keeping the RPMs down. TCI also can make you a custom low stall torque converters that work well. 800-1000 stall speed is good.
 
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Help with lift choice

Just sold a car yesteray so I have $3.4k to work with. I need to know if I can get away with a OME 3" lift kit or if I have to install a 4" kit. :confused: The price jumps considerably between the 3" & 4" kits and varies in completeness from the companies. I want the HD springs & shocks as I will be adding weight to both ends of the TLC FJ80. I guessing that I should be doing the lift before moving on to the swap correct?
The 4 companies I've narrowed are listed below.

#1: 3" OME Rocky-Road, no brake lines, no sway bar or bump stop brackets, $926.90 otd.

#2: Man-A-Fre, 3" OME 4+plus complete with all brackets included, no brake lines but available for $43.45. $13003.86 otd & local about 1 hr. south.

#3: IronPig Offroad, 3" OME complete kit with all correction brackets & drops & includes brake lines, $995+s&h ($100?) so $1095 otd give or take.

#4: If 4" lift IS required. 4" Slee Offroad kits are complete with absolutely everything including drop brackets, drive shaft & brake lines. $2826+s&h for Bolt In Kit & #2125+s&h for Do-It-Yourself kit requires cutting & welding.

Please help me in deciding with these lift kits and what your experience has been with the kits & companies.
Thanks again for feedback & help. :)
 

RockJock82

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$3400 for the complete swap not including motor? I dont think that will do it.. 4BT's run about 2-5k depending on what is done to them and adapters. The 4BT I built was a Inline pump 4bt and by the time I was done with it (did all the work myself) I had 5k into it. For the lift I bought the Slee 4in DIY kit and it was a cinch to install, but I was also looking at the Ironman 4inch lift. Its like 1600 for everything minus a dshaft.
 

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