Help sourcing Safari Turbo Exhaust Housing - .82AR

[Wheelingnoob]

Unfortunately I think the catch is that it has a twin scroll / divided T3 flange to accommodate the Safari manifold. Slightly different dimensions than a standard T3. I have emails in with about 8 turbo shops right now and two of them are already looking into it.


I found this guy with a divided T3, though the AR is .78 vs .82 and the trim on the compressor is 57 vs 56, but I'm not sure if that will matter much.

The biggest catch is that its a V-Band outlet instead of a 5 bolt, so I'd need to have an elbow mandrel bent. Oh ya, the $1,500 sucks as well.....


Turbocharger, Garrett **Ball Bearing** , T3/T4E 57 Trim Compressor : atpturbo.com

EDIT - CRAP! Didn't catch that it wasn't internally waste gated....

Running my probe 6 inches off of #6 in the exhaust manifold I regularly sat between 1,200 and 1,400. Occasionally on a looooong hot pull 1,500. I don't think I ever pegged the 1600 mark. From what I've read around here that wasn't unreasonable for a gasser, especially reading temps pre turbo.

You EGT's seem fine.

That picture of the turbine housing is not a divided twin scroll housings. Its a standard T3 housing with a 5 bolt outlet flange.

The attached link is a picture of a divided twin scroll turbine housing. .78 A/R Divided T3 Exhaust housing for GT/GTX Ball Bearing Series : atpturbo.com

 

[clownmidget]

Try contacting Dave (Japan4x4) or Yan (Akella) and give them the part number for the rings and they should be able to hook you up.

How certain are you that's the original turbo? I know I was EXTREMELY surprised that the PO of my current 1995 had told me the APS Safari system was 100% original from Man-A-Fre. I got from LA to the Colorado River when I blew a hole through the #1 piston. Upon dis-assembly we could see the poorly repaired crack of the manifold and the hotside of the turbo had been replaced with a .76 AR and an exhaust outlet of 2.5" and a Greddy boost controller that was holding it to ~10 psi, so EGT's shot through the roof once I was under hard boost and ambient temps were over 100-deg F.

I think if you are tight on money this is when you have to consider how much more affordable it would likely be to just get a Treadstone manifold that puts the turbo on top and lets you use an external waste gate/blow off. That opens up a ton of affordable turbos.

You will "buy" the Treadstone manifold for what it will cost to repair the Safari one properly.

And as you are discovering, getting all the specs for the turbo to drop into the Safari system is not cheap.

 

[yoda-g3]

You EGT's seem fine.

That picture of the turbine housing is not a divided twin scroll housings. Its a standard T3 housing with a 5 bolt outlet flange.

The attached link is a picture of a divided twin scroll turbine housing. .78 A/R Divided T3 Exhaust housing for GT/GTX Ball Bearing Series : atpturbo.com

Well, crap. I think I crossed streams when I was pulling flange dimensions on my computer while talking to my mechanic while he was measuring it. I think we were comparing outer to bolt center measurements. I think you're correct, which would be good news.

Here's a site with dimensions.

Turbo Talk - View topic - Turbo Flange Measurements

I'll post with pics of the measurements.

 

[yoda-g3]

 

[yoda-g3]

Try contacting Dave (Japan4x4) or Yan (Akella) and give them the part number for the rings and they should be able to hook you up.

How certain are you that's the original turbo? I know I was EXTREMELY surprised that the PO of my current 1995 had told me the APS Safari system was 100% original from Man-A-Fre. I got from LA to the Colorado River when I blew a hole through the #1 piston. Upon dis-assembly we could see the poorly repaired crack of the manifold and the hotside of the turbo had been replaced with a .76 AR and an exhaust outlet of 2.5" and a Greddy boost controller that was holding it to ~10 psi, so EGT's shot through the roof once I was under hard boost and ambient temps were over 100-deg F.

I think if you are tight on money this is when you have to consider how much more affordable it would likely be to just get a Treadstone manifold that puts the turbo on top and lets you use an external waste gate/blow off. That opens up a ton of affordable turbos.

You will "buy" the Treadstone manifold for what it will cost to repair the Safari one properly.

And as you are discovering, getting all the specs for the turbo to drop into the Safari system is not cheap.

I'm pretty sure it was original. It was built by the owner of a Yota dealership then owned by his service manger for a few years before I bought it. They were crazy OCD with records. I have two binders full of every receipt and email correspondence he had with his service department. I'll dog through them tonight to see if I missed a potential RMA or warranty service where is could've been swapped out.

I hear what you are saying about other options. I've been weighing everything down to a diesel swap to ditching the turbo, selling the bits and putting an SC on it. The catch is I'm too busy right now to wrench myself so I'm paying my buddy to do all of it so the cost of re-fabbing all the lines and plumbing starts to add up. If I can get a new turbo for $1k, and get the manifold stitched for a few hundred, and do a little exhaust work it won't be too bad.

The big question is if there is another style of manifold that has similar mounting position out there. Like a Turbo Glide looks like a close fit.

Is this the one you're talking about? Treadstone

PS - Do you know the Trim for the hot side on the Safari? Or is it just the AR housing that matters?

 

[clownmidget]

I was not aware of the Turbo Glide kit, it looks like a really close fit and is the only one I've seen that is in two pieces and puts the turbo low. Wonder if the Australians have had good luck with it?

Yeah, the Treadstone one and seems like they use the same design as most of the others I've seen available here in the US. It is very affordable though.

As far as I know, it's just the AR housing and then the specs of the turbine in it. As I remember it from my experience I was told the turbine specs were not "common" and the housing had to be matched to the turbine, so there wasn't and off the shelf solution.

 

[yoda-g3]

Ok, that is exactly where my manifold cracked at the mounting flange and it extended into the divider. Not sure about the other crack you show, is that part of the same crack from the top?

I will show these to the guy that welded mine.

Your turbo is truly fragged - but I guess you knew that.

A real option that has the possibility of being affordable for a turbo replacement is a Holset HX35/HX40 hybrid. The turbine side is the HX35 with a 12-cm^2 housing, which closely approximates a .89 AR and will spool fast enough for the 1FZ-FE. It is already a twin-scroll T3 mount - at least legit Holsets are. The HX40 compressor half moves more air. Both the HX35 & HX40 are available with oil & coolant center sections. They are internally waste-gated already too and it's pretty easy to slap on a boost regulator set to your specs. It also typically has minimally a 3" exhaust outlet which makes for an easy connection to your existing exhaust. Easy to rebuild, can handle lots of boost all day long, great durability, and can be found for maybe $500-800 in great condition or $150-300 needing rebuild.

Exhaust manifold expansion rings are not re-usable.

(I'm going to give you a ring later today but though I'd put some Holset discussion in here for future reference.)

I'm starting to dig this Holset route, but I'm so new to Turbo lingo and was just getting the Garret numbers down that the cross over is giving me a headache. I've read that you can't compare Garret AR number to Holset because they tend to spool faster by design.

So if I was looking at this HX35w would it spool similarly to the Safari? Or would I be better off going this HX40w route? (judging by the price I can't tell if it's some chinamart knock off.)

Or if I did the 35/40 hybrid, would I by an HX40 complete unit and then swap the turbine housing off of it for a 12cm HX35? Just trying to figure out if the hybrid is worth the 'needle in a haystack' search or if a straight up HX40 or HX35 would cut it. Also, if I did the 40 did they come in different housing sizes?


Also here is a response from Turboglide. Sounds like a decent plan 'B' if my manifold can't be repaired, or if it fails again in the near future. It should be a direct Safari replacement. (I'm kind of chuckling over them blatantly admitting its a copy.)

Hi Shane,


Thank you for your email.

Manifold only is $980.00 Australian dollars. Turbo we use has much larger turbine housing. Cracked manifolds and turbo’s generally mean either turbo to small, or running too lean.

Turbo we use is ball bearing unit, 600 HP. We run it at 5 PSI boost with inter cooler this gives 80% power gain on stock engine management.

Turbo cost is $2,100.00 Australian dollars.

Manifold is copy of Safari unit, but improved sealing area at join. Turbo is internal gate. Has provision for water cooling which must be used, due to composition of bearing cage.

We generally machine out small portion of engine mount to clear compressor cover.

See photo of turbo set up on manifold. Shipping cost dependent on order purchased.



Regards



John

Manager

Turbo Glide

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Be careful with the Holset HX35/40 stuff they are big turbos dimensionally. I would be very surprised if they fit the space that the Gerrett was. The Holsets are good turbos and perform well you just need to be aware of all the other things that can change when doing a swap like that.

Turboglides comments on the reasons for cracking are right on and I believe that also correspond to the extremely lean dyno graph we saw from you a few weeks ago. Have you done a leak down test on the motor to make sure its still ok?

Before going with the Turboglid BB turbo look into the cost locally of GT35R's you can get those with lots of turbine options and that from the work Landtank has been doing looks like a decent turbo fro the 1fz.

 

[clownmidget]

That's good stuff. I'm getting so much mixed info on the Holsets I've almost given up on them as an option.

Precision, ATP, Turbonetics and straight up Garretts are all going to have turbos that will work just fine but you get what you pay for with them. Nice drop in units with BB centers = $$$. I know that's what LandTank opted for.

That is good to know about the Turbo Glide. Personally I was always impressed that the Safari manifold halves used a Toyota part to seal them together. Also, the manifold mounting holes were elongated to allow for expansion/contraction.

 

[yoda-g3]

Be careful with the Holset HX35/40 stuff they are big turbos dimensionally. I would be very surprised if they fit the space that the Gerrett was. The Holsets are good turbos and perform well you just need to be aware of all the other things that can change when doing a swap like that.

Ya, I've been keeping that in mind. The one I pulled is pretty beefy and the compressor was already rubbing, but I had some room on the turbine side. What suck is its hard to measure it out without physically having one in hand to test with.

Turboglides comments on the reasons for cracking are right on and I believe that also correspond to the extremely lean dyno graph we saw from you a few weeks ago. Have you done a leak down test on the motor to make sure its still ok?

Hoping to have that done in the next few days. If the head appears to be shot then we might be talking diesel swap instead of rebuild at this point....

Before going with the Turboglid BB turbo look into the cost locally of GT35R's you can get those with lots of turbine options and that from the work Landtank has been doing looks like a decent turbo fro the 1fz.

I've been toying with this. The big issue is not having one for test fit, and if I'll need to ditch the internal WG for a BOV.

I've been looking hard at this guy: Turbine Housing- new T3 GTinternal WG with built in swingvalve : atpturbo.com and hoping I could just mate it with my compressor, but after it, all the adapters, then having a custom elbow made I'm still pushing $1,000. Which I'm willing to spend if that will do it. Jsut so many damn variables here.....

Now it seriously has me contemplating parking it it and getting a front clip for a diesel swap....

 

[Wheelingnoob]

Ya, I've been keeping that in mind. The one I pulled is pretty beefy and the compressor was already rubbing, but I had some room on the turbine side. What suck is its hard to measure it out without physically having one in hand to test with.



Hoping to have that done in the next few days. If the head appears to be shot then we might be talking diesel swap instead of rebuild at this point....




I've been toying with this. The big issue is not having one for test fit, and if I'll need to ditch the internal WG for a BOV.

I've been looking hard at this guy: Turbine Housing- new T3 GTinternal WG with built in swingvalve : atpturbo.com and hoping I could just mate it with my compressor, but after it, all the adapters, then having a custom elbow made I'm still pushing $1,000. Which I'm willing to spend if that will do it. Jsut so many damn variables here.....

Now it seriously has me contemplating parking it it and getting a front clip for a diesel swap....

For me the idea of adding a turbo to the 1fz is a tide me over till I can afford a 1HD-t swap. Its the end goal with mine.

 

[clownmidget]

I would never swap out a turbo'd 1FZ-FE for anything diesel from Toyota except it's TD V8. The Cummins are too loud & heavy. Really the only diesel option in the US that seems interesting is the Duramax and that seems like an expensive and tough fit. Folks really should look at these 1FZ-FE's they have in their trucks already like the Supra crowd does

 

[yoda-g3]

I would never swap out a turbo'd 1FZ-FE for anything diesel from Toyota except it's TD V8. The Cummins are too loud & heavy. Really the only diesel option in the US that seems interesting is the Duramax and that seems like an expensive and tough fit. Folks really should look at these 1FZ-FE's they have in their trucks already like the Supra crowd does

But I can't burn my old motor oil and french fry juice in this bad boy. Isn't that worth $10k to pull off???

Update - Just talked to the welder and he is making slow, albeit good progress on the manifold so far. I was actually trying to catch him and ask him to hold off until I sourced a turbo but he was too fast for me.

 

[Wheelingnoob]

I would think this is going to be your best bet for a replacement and an upgrade at the same time. Garrett GT3582R (aka GT35R, aka GT35/40R) Bearing Turbo : atpturbo.com

Get there Internal waste gated housing in a 1.06 a/r (or the same size you have now) and then select the T04E compressor cover (more compact), I would bet that set up is very similar to the turbo you have now fit wise.

I myself for my turbo 1fz have been looking very very closely at the Borg Warner EFR turbo line. Price wise they are about the same as the GT Garretts and I know from experiences that the BW turbos are fantastically efficient and make huge power. They are also even more advanced than the older Garrett GT stuff. In my case though I will be making all the components of the turbo set up so I can play around with position and layout a bit. I plan to try a BW EFR turbo on my Miata track car first, good torture test for it.

 

[yoda-g3]

Back from the welder. Looks pretty good and he felt confident about it. $391 out the door.

 

[yoda-g3]

Now off to the machine shop to get surfaced. Another $40.

 

[yoda-g3]

As of right now I am moving towards a Garrett GT3582R .

I'm just going to get a complete unit with the compact T04E in a .82AR wastgated housing and have a new elbow made. (After I get a leak down test done to verify the motor is still in good shape.)

I figure my old compressor and cartridge is still in great shape so I can sell it and my Safari elbow and hope to recoup a few hundred of all this fun.

I'll probably be pushing $2,500 - $3,000 when I'm done with it all, BUT I will have a rock solid brand new setup. I'll also have a AFR gauge on it and am going to get it dyno'd to get a baseline when its all done as well.

I figured this was the best route while I plan my eventual diesel swap. I figured a complete Safari'd take out with fresh components attached to a semi built tranny will be a good down payment on a half cut in a couple years.

 

[cruiserdan]

This epic journey makes a V8 look really good. Really, really, good.

 

[yoda-g3]

This epic journey makes a V8 look really good. Really, really, good.

Find me a relatively easy all Toyota option that I could do for under $4k and I'd be in.

 

[cruiserdan]

Find me a relatively easy all Toyota option that I could do for under $4k and I'd be in.

A supercharger runs $3,299.00