Head Gasket Questions...

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Blackstone oil analysis.

If it comes to it then I will probably do that, but it wouldn't be back before next Thursday, and after that I won't even have a chance to look at the truck until Thanksgiving at the earliest.

If you are looking for a coolant leak, use a UV or blacklight as the green or red color in the antifreeze is a fluorescent dye.

Thank you very much for this information! I looked some more and still didn't see any leaks. Now I got to go look for our blacklight...
 
It's not going into the passenger side carpet, by any chance?

Alas, it would not appear that that is the case. I've been running without the interior for maybe half of the last 700 or so miles (because I've been cleaning it, exceedingly slowly), and didn't notice any wetness with the carpet in, with the carpet removed, or while cleaning the carpet.

After Pin_Head's great advice about the blacklight, I used ours to examine all of the coolant and heater hoses again. While there was some glowing, especially around the water pump area, nothing indicated a leak at all the size required to drain 3 quarts of coolant in an estimated 15-20 hours of run time. So then I decided to see if there was any water vapor coming out of the tail pipe. Well, I'm not sure if it was because the cooler temperatures (low 70s instead of low 80s), or something else, but there was visible water vapor coming from the exhaust where there had not been earlier in the day. Additionally, after idling for between 5 and 10 minutes, there was a wet spot on the driveway the size of a floppy disk, from water dripping from inside the tailpipe. I pointed the blacklight at the exhaust pipe and, while the vapor itself didn't glow, the water that beaded right at the bottom of the pipe (see below picture) glowed green.

Exhaust.JPG


Could this mean it is the head gasket? There is definitely more water water/vapor there than any of our other cars. Also, the exhaust smells a little "sweet" which could be the coolant? If there is a leaking hose or something in the engine bay, then it's got to be intermittent, or perhaps something like the PHH that I have not been able to inspect. What do you guys think? Is it possible for the fluorescent dye to pass through the combustion process without being destroyed?
 
Visible coolant is a fraction of the leak. With the heat of a running motor, most of it evaporates very quickly. Did you check all the radiator seams? They've been known to fail, initially it'll just manifest as hissing, steam and/or bubbling. It can be very easy to miss.

If you can't find it, carry extra water, top it off every day and watch it closely. Leaks have a way of getting bigger, then it'll be obvious. You're okay as long as it doesn't overheat.
 
Could this mean it is the head gasket? There is definitely more water water/vapor there than any of our other cars. Also, the exhaust smells a little "sweet" which could be the coolant? If there is a leaking hose or something in the engine bay, then it's got to be intermittent, or perhaps something like the PHH that I have not been able to inspect. What do you guys think? Is it possible for the fluorescent dye to pass through the combustion process without being destroyed?

I've never seen coolant run out the tail pipe, just vapor.
 
You might also try using a pressure tester. It allows you to check for leaks when cold. Liquid is far easier to spot then steam.
 
If you were loosing that much fluid through a blown head gasket, it would steam clean the spark plug of the offending cylinder. Pull the spark plugs and compare them looking for a real clean one. From what you have said, it sure sounds like a leak. The radiator pressure test kit http://www.harborfreight.com/radiator-pressure-tester-kit-61666.html (dang, didn't know they were this expensive) is the key. Or, start it up and get to operating temperature/pressure. Turn it off. Use a glove and a paper towel, and swab under all the hoses to find the leak.
 
x2 pressure tester-cold engine-coolant full-pump up to about 30psi-leave it and monitor-listen also-if it continually drops pressure (and not leaking at the cap) it's going somewhere. watch it for a few hours. Ii either will go into the cylinder or oil where you won't see it or will come out onto the ground.
 
Wow, thanks for all of the help! I'm going to go out and take another look at it now, but I'll try and address everyone's comments/ideas/questions first.

Visible coolant is a fraction of the leak. With the heat of a running motor, most of it evaporates very quickly. Did you check all the radiator seams? They've been known to fail, initially it'll just manifest as hissing, steam and/or bubbling. It can be very easy to miss.

If you can't find it, carry extra water, top it off every day and watch it closely. Leaks have a way of getting bigger, then it'll be obvious. You're okay as long as it doesn't overheat.

Okay, that is good to know. I can see why it would be hard to spot radiator leaks, with all that airflow.

I've never seen coolant run out the tail pipe, just vapor.

Well, what was happening (I think) was that the exhaust pipe was cool, and the vapor was condensing on the inside of it, especially in the resonator, and then dripping out. So it wasn't running out of the engine - just condensing in the exhaust. It did glow green under the blacklight though - I got someone else to look at it just to make sure I wasn't imagining it! :doh:

You might also try using a pressure tester. It allows you to check for leaks when cold. Liquid is far easier to spot then steam.

So you are pressurizing the entire cooling system with this?

If you were loosing that much fluid through a blown head gasket, it would steam clean the spark plug of the offending cylinder. Pull the spark plugs and compare them looking for a real clean one. From what you have said, it sure sounds like a leak. The radiator pressure test kit http://www.harborfreight.com/radiator-pressure-tester-kit-61666.html (dang, didn't know they were this expensive) is the key. Or, start it up and get to operating temperature/pressure. Turn it off. Use a glove and a paper towel, and swab under all the hoses to find the leak.

Okay, I think I will check the spark plugs if I can find a spark plug socket the right size, thank you for the idea. I'll try that with the paper towel - I'd been doing a little bit of that but I think the glove idea is a good one! So with the radiator test kit, is that the same thing BrotherRob was talking about? Do I just need to pressurize the cooling system to like ~30 psi and be able to watch the pressure with a gauge and look/listen for leaks? Does the overflow bottle tube need to be blocked up for this?

Did you ever look in the overflow bottle with the truck running/revving ? Look for air bubbles coming up.

Yes I did, thanks for the tip. I've checked at various temperatures/run times/RPM but didn't see anything. I'll keep checking though to make sure.

If you are driving it around it would be great if you can keep a scan guage hooked up to monitor your engine temps so as to prevent anything catatonic.

That was the first purchase I made for this truck (of many to follow :rolleyes:) and sometimes I feel I spend more time watching that temperature gauge then the road! Okay, maybe that's an exaggeration. Anyhow, as long as it's below like 90F outside, it doesn't get above 193-195. Highest I saw was 213 driving up a hill, low on coolant (didn't know it at the time), maybe 90-95F outside, and I was ready to pull over if it got any higher. I've just read too many HG threads, as evidenced by my willingness to jump to that conclusion so easily when I noticed my coolant was low.

x2 pressure tester-cold engine-coolant full-pump up to about 30psi-leave it and monitor-listen also-if it continually drops pressure (and not leaking at the cap) it's going somewhere. watch it for a few hours. Ii either will go into the cylinder or oil where you won't see it or will come out onto the ground.

Okay, cool, this seems to be the next step. Is this something you have to buy or can you just hook up a bike pump or air compressor or something in place of the coolant overflow bottle and pressurize the system with that?

I'm going to go out and poke around some more with the equipment I have currently and see if I can spot anything. Just for my own reference, coolant is ~1cm above full line in the overflow, w/radiator full and devoid of air. This is with block cool. That way I'll be able to tell if any/how much leaks out.

Thanks for all the help everybody! I really appreciate it.:cheers:
 
A pressure tester fits in the mouth of the radiator, replacing the cap. It allows you to replicate operating pressure without the heat and noise of running the motor. Sometimes it's easier to spot leaks on a cold motor. You likely can rent one at an auto parts store. Sometimes you can pressurize the system thru the overflow tube but it's not the optimum method. I wouldn't use a compressor, you don't want to create new leaks.
 
Okay, so I found the leak - a pinhole in the radiator intake hose where it joins the block. I feel pretty dumb for not finding it earlier, since it is in such an accessible location, but in retrospect it only leaked above 2500 RPM, so that complicated things. I took it for a spin around the block to warm up the engine, and when I got back took a look underneath to try and inspect the radiator from below per BrotherRob's advice. Noticed the coolant on the PS lines below the leaking coolant hose, and just looked upwards. I didn't see the actual leak until I revved the engine up - I guess idle RPMs didn't create enough pressure/flow in the system. It literally streamed out of the tube intermittently once the RPMs were up, not even touching the outside of the hose at all.

Well, thanks for all the help and suggestions guys! I would probably be ordering a head gasket tomorrow morning instead of a radiator hose if you guys hadn't steered me right, especially BrotherRob with his sage advice about it being a leak. Thanks again!
 
You're welcome, glad you found it. It's amazing how much trouble a little pisser can cause. It's a good idea to check your coolant regularly, if you catch it when it's a few ounces low, you're less likely to overheat and/or jump to the conclusion that it's a big problem.

My philosophy is to rule out the little sh!t first. If you assume the worst, you're likely to talk yourself into a big repair. A HG failure is a form of coolant leak, by pursuing the coolant leak, you'll rule out all the minor issues and, if the HG has failed, it will be the final diagnoses.
 
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Glad you found it! I just wanted to clarify something mentioned in this thread. The radiator cap is what regulates the pressure inside the cooling system. Our Cruiser cap is set right around 14 psi. If you pressure test the system, 30psi is way too much. 16-17 psi should b plenty to see a leak.

Next time you order parts from one of the Toyota dealers, an OE cap is pretty cheap. Around $15 and you know it is right. Get a couple of extra thrermostat gaskets for $2 a piece, and you can flush the block out of coolant real fast and easy. A bargin compared to a HG job!
 
They can operate at 14-I go way high when testing something difficult to find. Have done it for years with no problem. It's when it's cold and only temporary. You can do the same thing with tires too when trying to find tiny leaks.
 
Yeah, I'm pretty happy it wasn't the head gasket! I'm going to just order the parts through a local dealer since Beno seems to be out of the office and I need them pretty quick. I'm going to try and do a coolant flush and replace the PHH while I have the system open, as well as replace the thermostat and gasket (bought one in my last parts order from Beno) just to stay on the safe side. Thanks again!
 
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