Getting real about weight

[mulebarn]

In planning my 200 Heritage build, I've started a fairly in-depth worksheet that allows me to input various gear, and it calculates daily driver weight (the stuff that can't come off or out of the truck easily), and expedition weight for gear that I know I use regularly on big trips. This is a first draft based on products that I know, own and love, mixed with some things I've not yet purchased (primarily armor and fuel tank). Weight has not yet been a strict rule, but it is top of mind. There are a few places where I have educated guesses for product weight based on information I've stitched together, but I'm not certain it is accurate. Best example: Kaymar rear bumper; it's hard to find how much it actually weighs, with or without swing arms.

I'll do another tab in this worksheet showing a lighter set of bumper choices and more minimalist camping choices to see how it changes things.

Regardless though, reality is that hitting GVWR/GVM happens quickly, especially when you add protective armor, even in daily driver mode.

While I know MANY people just drive around everyday with obese trucks, I don't want to do that. So, as I make these plans there's a constant balance between function and weight. I managed to build a fully functional high-end overland rig with my 4Runner that kept me under GVWR, and that will be the goal here as well.

For those of you who do care about weight and do longer touring/overland style trips, I'd love to hear how you've gone about your builds. This article nicely sums up why I care about weight: Fatty fatty 4x4: Why GVWR matters - Expedition Portal. And this article is a great set of principles to live by: The 10 Commandments of Modifying an Overland Vehicle - Expedition Portal.

Here's the worksheet, and if anyone would like me to share an editable copy with you, just let me know.



Thanks, and I'm looking forward to building this with you all.

 

[Mogwai]

@indycole has done a bunch of research on this and I believe published a spreadsheet as well.

 

[Markuson]

@indycole has done a bunch of research on this and I believe published a spreadsheet as well.

Cole ( @indycole ) is like a walking spreadsheet...

Texted him about the torque value on some obscure bolt some time back...and he texted back within moments. Probably the most organized dude I know.

As @Mogwai will recall from our Baja trip a couple Springs ago.... Several of our 5 trucks worked bolts loose after hundreds of miles of jarring roads....and one guy actually LOST a critical one. But of course...Cole had brought a bag of specific bolts, including the lost one!

 

[mulebarn]

Thanks y’all. While knowing a couple of these weights would be nice, that’s not what I’m after. I’m mostly curious about how folks have built their rigs, AND maintained GVWR. What do you run?

 

[Markuson]

Thanks y’all. While knowing a couple of these weights would be nice, that’s not what I’m after. I’m mostly curious about how folks have built their rigs, AND maintained GVWR. What do you run?

GVWR assumes stock suspension.
The truck is easily more than strong enough for more weight than the stock numbers...if you approapriately increase suspension weight accordingly.

There have been a number of threads on this topic.

 

[mulebarn]

GVWR assumes stock suspension.
The truck is easily more than strong enough for more weight than the stock numbers...if you approapriately increase suspension weight accordingly.

There have been a number of threads on this topic.

Thanks. I’m aware of that, but it doesn’t get to my question about how folks have built rigs that adhere to the manufacturers recommendations (which come from a ton of engineering and testing).

 

[ckkone]

 

[coleAK]

Thanks. I’m aware of that, but it doesn’t get to my question about how folks have built rigs that adhere to the manufacturers recommendations (which come from a ton of engineering and testing).

I think what you are going to find is not many (if any) fully built rigs will be under Toyota GVW. Mostly because when they upgrade the suspension they also upgrade the weight capacity.

 

[OregonLC]

I admire your efforts to keep the weight down, but it may be limiting what you do with your truck, both in terms of build and in terms of use. Building with an eye on weight is definitely a wise thing to do. And where that weight lives on the vehicle is just as important.

However, shedding critical items with the only goal of hitting a certain number could be counter-productive in the context of overland enjoyment. As others have said, the sticker was just the number used for DOT and EPA cert; she'll take way more.

I'm around 8,000 lbs deployed with just me, 8,300 with the family. Over 10K combined with the trailer.

I know this doesn't answer the original question, and not trying to criticize your endeavors... just offering a perspective.

 

[Markuson]

Thanks. I’m aware of that, but it doesn’t get to my question about how folks have built rigs that adhere to the manufacturers recommendations (which come from a ton of engineering and testing).

What manufacturer? Toyota?

Toyota isn’t going to put their stamp of approval on much of any weight increase beyond GVWR... So good luck with that! hehe

If you’re curious what a HEAVY rig is running (like mine), turn your phone sideways in your vlbrowser and zoom in on the fine print for all the details of my suspension in my signature below my posts (they usually don’t appear on phones u til you turn phones to landscape orientation).

 

[indycole]

I can't think of a single 200 in the US that has been completely built for both self-sufficient backcountry travel with full armor for technical trails that is anywhere close to GVWR. Side note: we've also seen plenty of trucks with nothing but tires and sliders (or even just sliders) do the most technical trails these trucks ought to be on (let's say a 6/7 in Moab ratings... Metal Masher, Golden Spike, etc.) with nothing more than bumper cover damage.

If you take the effect of GVM upgrades in Australia as directly applicable to the US-based 200, then you can get to 8,000-8,500 lb and still be within spec. Replace your rear axle and you get can go over 9000 pounds. At that point handling would suffer quite a bit.

My truck is lighter than it used to be but it's still heavy. I went down the "sacrifice nothing" path trying to build a truck that was equally capable in technical terrain and on long camping trips while also being uber convenient. I was at 9000 lbs packed for a trip where I would not need to re-provision for up 7-10 days. I took that build as far as I could go before deciding to try out a trailer for a while. The verdict is still out on that experiment.

Generally, I'd say your options are to a.) prioritize camping payload (tent, storage, water, firewood), b.) offroad capability (heavy duty armor, bigger tires), or c.) get comfortable with going over the GVWR. Experience on this board has shown that the truck will certainly perform with a lot of weight. At some point (I'd say over 7800 lbs) you start to feel it especially if you have a heavy roof load. By 8500 lbs you'll feel quite encumbered. Above 9000 (not including a trailer) you really start to feel like you're stressing out components.

 

[mulebarn]

Ah, I know your rig from the internet.

 

[Itsky]

Here is a thread I posted awhile back, there is a pdf in there

Advice on suspension an and direction for my 2013 LC mini build

forum.ih8mud.com

with a list of weights and identifying what is constant or trip weight.
what your list seems to be missing is the passengers, outdoor gear, water and food.

for me the solution was to not “build” it. What I’ve found is that I still go everywhere I want but I’m below gvwr. I mountain bike though so My itch for the most tech trail is otherwise scratched.

 

[Rigger]

Interesting that your truck is coming in at 6800. Mine is a bit under, at 6750. These rigs are heavy.

 

[mulebarn]

Here is a thread I posted awhile back, there is a pdf in there

Advice on suspension an and direction for my 2013 LC mini build

forum.ih8mud.com

with a list of weights and identifying what is constant or trip weight.
what your list seems to be missing is the passengers, outdoor gear, water and food.

for me the solution was to not “build” it. What I’ve found is that I still go everywhere I want but I’m below gvwr. I mountain bike though so My itch for the most tech trail is otherwise scratched.

People are water are in the sheet. (I am Gino, and the other three names are wife & Australian Shepherds). We carry a 20L NATO can for water, and that’s in there as well. The only things missing I note in the totals column on the right.

Yeah, I‘ve also considered not building it much as well. We’re also cyclists and mountain bikers, though truck trails and MTB single track are galaxies apart.

 

[TeCKis300]

I applaud the philosophy, strategy, and approach. Weight is singularly one of the most impactful factors to almost every performance metric of a vehicle. Something often underestimated until one builds out the full extent of a rig only to realize that it trades too much everyday usability for that extra bit of capability in rock climbing for example.

I've gone in circles as to what I've wanted to do. In the end, I need my vehicle to tow near the combined 14.5k lb GCVWR. And drive well on streets where I like to drive aggressively.

I've been patiently awaiting things like slee LX sliders. Lately, I've decided not to. And will continue to forego all armor for the sake of maintaining performance and payload handling. Doesn't mean that I don't want to off-road though.

I'm going the light weight direction. Meaning I will focus on putting weight where it does the most. Small LRA subtank. Portable lithium battery. Onboard air. Mild AHC sensor lift. Spend my money and weight to upgrade to 35s for real lift under the axle. My thought is why bother with sliders, bumpers, underarmor when it's better to avoid playing contact sports to begin with.

Not saying others shouldn't armor up as there's those that really like to rock crawl and it makes sense. Just for my uses, I need to keep things as light weight as possible.

 

[mulebarn]

TeCKis300 that's some refreshing perspective.

With my 4Runner, I did build it "completely." In the 3.5 years I drove it, I hit the underside of the front bumper/skids twice, and the skidded/tapped rear underside of the bumper maybe 3-5 times, all on pretty technical trails. I've considered doing something minimal like you describe: LRA 12.5 gal tank, drawers, on-board air, small lithium dual battery system, Dissent aluminum sliders, and see what it takes to find the limits, and then make decisions from there, if I find the limits.

Thanks - this is why I'm hoping to have this conversation.

 

[Markuson]

I find that with the right suspension settings and coil weight....and by keeping the heaviest weight lower in the vehicle...even my super heavy truck is remarkably fun to drive on the street...especially after dumping my 35’s, but maintaining the stance width.

Also...Avoiding roof-level weight makes a HUGE difference in nimble handling.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

I’m mostly curious about how folks have built their rigs, AND maintained GVWR.

By being honest with myself about what I need, versus what I want. This started with getting real about the kind of driving/adventures I actually do, versus the kind I dream about (given time, money, access, etc.).

Once I set down this path, things started getting simpler.

What do you run?

- Stock-size, P-rated tires.
- No armour.
- Trail Tailor front recovery points.
- ARB twin air compressor.
- MaxTrax sitting in the 2nd row footwell.
- A few small bags containing basic hand tools and recovery equipment.
- A dog crate.

That's it.

When we go out for a trip, we grab the trailer w/ all our camping gear, RTT, etc. If you're interested in seeing it, there are plenty of photos of it in the wild on my blog.

On Reddit I recently came across a post of a guy that had traveled from the US down to Argentina, shipped his vehicle to London, traveled all across Europe, and was again shipping his vehicle to either Asia or Australia (can't remember). He spent 60k miles on the road, seeing and enjoying more of the world than the vast majority of us ever will. His vehicle of choice? A brand new BMW X3; 100% stock. Not a single accessory outside, not even a roof rack.

Most of us have no real need for 95% of the crap we add to our vehicles. It all adds weight, expenses and complications.

 

[coleAK]

By being honest with myself about what I need, versus what I want. This started with getting real about the kind of driving/adventures I actually do, versus the kind I dream about (given time, money, access, etc.).

Once I set down this path, things started getting simpler.



- Stock-size, P-rated tires.
- No armour.
- Trail Tailor front recovery points.
- ARB twin air compressor.
- MaxTrax sitting in the 2nd row footwell.
- A few small bags containing basic hand tools and recovery equipment.
- A dog crate.

That's it.

When we go out for a trip, we grab the trailer w/ all our camping gear, RTT, etc. If you're interested in seeing it, there are plenty of photos of it in the wild on my blog.

On Reddit I recently came across a post of a guy that had traveled from the US down to Argentina, shipped his vehicle to London, traveled all across Europe, and was again shipping his vehicle to either Asia or Australia (can't remember). He spent 60k miles on the road, seeing and enjoying more of the world than the vast majority of us ever will. His vehicle of choice? A brand new BMW X3; 100% stock. Not a single accessory outside, not even a roof rack.

Most of us have no real need for 95% of the crap we add to our vehicles. It all adds weight, expenses and complications.

i fully agree. I say it all the time if I didn’t regularly use the off road and tow capacity I wouldn’t own LC and other than Tundra take off 18”, KO2s, and 78” Yakama round cross bars my LX is stock.

In the summer I see people from all over the world up here in AK that are shipping vehicles and driving on multiple continents or around the globe. Other than the Dakar campers (seeing more of those every year) Pretty much none with lifts or >32” tires, almost never see an RTT, bumpers or winch. Lots of mostly bone stock Delica vans, VW vans, Subaru wagons. Talked to an Aussi last summer with an insane custom 70 series camper conversion other than that almost never see a LC with international plates.