Front axle rebuild ? Use gear oil ?

[cahilc]

If it doesn't work out I have a sponsored rebuild from my mechanic.

Planning on changing the planetary fluids on the same schedule as my diff's. Every 15k. Takes about 5 minutes per side. I hit it with vacuum throught the top plug, pull out whatever I can and refill.

I will admit, grease is definitely the easier approach for maintenance. However, there are plenty of solid front axles running around with gear oil in their planetaries.

Cheers,
Cahil

P.S. Which leads me to the idea of machining a matching drain plug opposite the fill plug the next time I'm in there ...

 

[dd113]

So just what exactly will you gain from this? I can run ATF in a H55F and if I change it every time it gets hot it will be fine for ever. I will just need to change it every 10 miles or so.

Another point: Oil will wash out much faster than grease and will mix easier with water than grease.

 

[cahilc]

So just what exactly will you gain from this?

Best question so far ...

How about easier replacement of fluids in the planetaries ? And superior birf lubrication ?

When it came down to my knuckle rebuild I took it to my trusted mechanic. He's done bunches of solid axle rebuilds. Commented that Toyota didn't design this setup, maybe improved it a bit but solid axles have been around for ages. He convinced me to use gear lube in the planetaries. We agreed if it didn't work out to swap back to grease.

So far so good.

I do wheel a bit, enough to *need* lockers. Next mod is sliders because I cherish my intact factory rock panels.

Resonable drips so far,

Cheers,
Cahil

 

[cruiseroutfit]

Best question so far ...

How about easier replacement of fluids in the planetaries ? And superior birf lubrication ?...

I've been asking that question all along...

Plus what is the your defintition of a "planetary?"

A birfield does not meet any of the qualifications of a "planetary" (according to Design of Machinery, Robert L. Norton, 3rd Eq. 2003)

And... I have NEVER seen a birf fail due to "lack of lubrication"... mabey extreme wear in a FT 4WD FJ80, but a viscous lube would do NOTHING to fix that problem...

Your fixing things that arn't broke.. even worse, your wasting time and resources doing it...

If your mechanic "sponsors" this... why don't you have him "sponsor" you in a worthwile upgrade (i.e. hydra-assist, lockers, gears, lift, custom suspension, steering mods, driveline mods, etc.)

BTW... "Most" solid axles (as stated in your explanation) do not use ANY external lube on the constant velocity (you call "planetary") joint... they use GREASE in the caps of a bearing...

The Toyota design is alot like an older closed knuckle Dana axle... they used GREASE...

WOT...

 

[NocalFJ60]

I have the answer.

Because Toyota says to use Moly-Graphite EP grease in the knuckles!!! That's good enough for me.

You got more experience/education than the Toyota engineers? Proven since 1957?

Take your chances if you like. I'll pass and do what Mr. Toyoda recommends. To each his own though...

Jody.

I agree. Don't waste your time reinventing the wheel. Have a beer instead.

 

[cahilc]

I agree. Don't waste your time reinventing the wheel. Have a beer instead.

Okey - Dokey ...

Hmmm ... and for all the hard thought on this ... how about some ... hmmm ...

Duck Tape ???



Cahil

 

[dd113]

After thinking more about I really think it is a joke post. Your position is just too stupid to be realistic.

If your "trusted mechanic" agreed to this he must not really know much and I would no longer trust him.

 

[Benji]

Wow, what a heated debate. I like someone who thinks "outside of the box." However, I also trust Toyota engineers more than my own intuition.

My 2 cents

 

[cruiseroutfit]

... However, I also trust Toyota engineers more than my own intuition...

What, you don't trust an "Engineer in Training"

And no, my emphasis is NOT on lubrication

 

[cahilc]

After thinking more about I really think it is a joke post. Your position is just too stupid to be realistic.

If your "trusted mechanic" agreed to this he must not really know much and I would no longer trust him.

Naw, dd113 ... this is not a *joke* post. I'm serious about it and I've got gear oil in all three chambers in my front axle. Manageable drips so far.


I *will* however try to keep a bit of humour mixed in to keep the conversation(discussion) easier reading. Hence, the 'duck tape' pun for the fundamental FSM interpreters among us.

One note of clarification after re-reading the previous posts: I was pushing for grease and my trusted mechanic was pushing for gear oil on the front axle rebuild. The agreement was that if the front had to be rebuilt because gear oil didn't work out and converted to grease, the rebuild to grease would be "sponsored" time wise from his end.

He's a top notch mechanic(20 plus years experience) . Done bunches of solid front axle rebuilds on various vehicles(domestic & imported) over the years. He had a domestic vehicle(truck) with a soild front axle which looked just like the front axle on my Cruiser.

Will keep progress reports *taped* here,
Cahil

 

[sandcruiser]

Is he going to 'sponsor' the parts too?
I like the idea of trying something new, that's what this board is all about, right? But this seems to me that it could be an expensive learning experience if/when it goes wrong... and there are some well trained and experienced folks here who seem awfully certain it *will* go wrong.
With a locker up front you are already stressing the birfs more than the stock setup.
I would think that at the very least you want to run the thickest oil possibly up there- 145 or higher (do they make it higher?)
Very interested to see if this works for you. Absolutely no chance I would follow suit even if it does work, but interested just the same.

 

[dd113]

But it is dripping, dripping, dripping. OEM does not drip with grease. Sure, anything will work with enough attention paid to it. The basic point here is that the OEM grease will work well and will work well for a LOOOOOOOng time. To the tune of 80K + miles without a change of grease. if you have drips now then what is your point. The only point I can see is that it wont last as long as an OEM grease set up.

Sure, this might be an educational experience for your mechanic but I wonder how much he knows about Toyota axles. They are not the same and not the same design as other axles even if they look the same.

Good luck with it. I can get you a deal on your next rebuild kit or large bags of kitty litter.

 

[cahilc]

Good luck with it. I can get you a deal on your next rebuild kit or large bags of kitty litter.

Thanks !!!

So far so good. the bottom knuckle bolts are wet but there is no noticeable dripping left after driving and parking all night long. Park in the same spot on the driveway and so far so good. Have 80w-90 in there. Will let you know when I need the kitty litter !



Cheers,
Cahil

 

[cahilc]

first extra maintenance ...

2500 miles later ...

Drivers side hub 'O' ring is beginning to seep. Ordered up the parts, $3.25 each side. Will have to go in and replace. Shouldn't be to bad. Other wise just fine.

Cahil

 

[cruiseroutfit]

2500 miles later ...

Drivers side hub 'O' ring is beginning to seep. Ordered up the parts, $3.25 each side. Will have to go in and replace. Shouldn't be to bad. Other wise just fine.

Cahil

Thats funny... I have NEVER replaced one of the hub o-rings... and never had one leak either. Guess it wasn't designed to act as a fluid barrier

 

[cahilc]

Thats funny... I have NEVER replaced one of the hub o-rings... and never had one leak either. Guess it wasn't designed to act as a fluid barrier

20 year old rubber 'O' ring ???

I guess it would have been a *lot* easier to have replaced it when everything was apart. Just didn't know. Looks like I'll go ahead and change out the fluid while I'm in there too.



Cahil

 

[heavytlc]

I am almost sure I do not belong here. I have not had a birfield need more grease than you would get out of a tube of chapstick. I have never worn one out. They do not make it long enough to ever use more than the grease that can be packed in the joint its self. I do not put ANY grease in the housing, just wipe it down with an rag with some grease on it, to inhibit rust. It is a bitch to fish out the bits and pieces from 2lbs of grease.

I though I was on rockcrawling site, but I must have followed the link to ILUVASPHALT

 

[dd113]

I am almost sure I do not belong here. I have not had a birfield need more grease than you would get out of a tube of chapstick. I have never worn one out. They do not make it long enough to ever use more than the grease that can be packed in the joint its self. I do not put ANY grease in the housing, just wipe it down with an rag with some grease on it, to inhibit rust. It is a bitch to fish out the bits and pieces from 2lbs of grease.

I though I was on rockcrawling site, but I must have followed the link to ILUVASPHALT

Smack! Good to hear another kindred voice

 

[cahilc]

Smack! Good to hear another kindred voice

And what exactly are you celebrating ??? I don' think the question has ever been if you are right, the question is ...

"Is there another way ?"

Peace,
Cahil

 

[dd113]

Not celebrating anything. There is no question if I am right. I am right and it is not just me. Maybe 200,000+ Land Cruiser owners cant be all that wrong. More power to you if you want to try this out but it is not right, it is not less maintence, it is not better for tha parts involved and serves no real purpose except your desire to make it work.

Have at it.