Excessive play at front differential (1 Viewer)

[nissanh]

Hi,
This is my first thread here: but owned nothing but toyota's all my life starting from hilux LN 106, Sprinter (Geo Prizm), 3rd gen 4runner. All are still with me.
Recently I purchased a year 2000: 100 series cruiser from it's first owner.
It is fully stock.
I did the timing belt, front shocks, drained/filled all fluids in all 3 diffs etc.,

Here is my problem with it and want to know your thoughts before I do anything.

Going between "R" and "D" I hear a loud band in the front diff. I notice the front drive shaft has about 1/3 to 1/4 of a free turn when I try to spin it with hand.

I am all ready to drop the front diff and set the blacklash with a dial gauge.

1) What is the range for a proper backlash for this model?

2) Does it contain a threaded adjusting washer to adjust the backlash or use shims?

3) Would an upgrade to an ARB air locker be a good option at this time?

4) Any place in west TX to get a good diff job done?

 

[2001LC]

Did you find much metal on drain plug of front differential? Some is normal.

First; check the most common issue for N to D clunk. If this ~1/4 turn is with one wheel on ground, that is a lot. Look closely at the front wheel hub flange and CV of front drive shafts. Bearing service done incorrectly, which is most of the time, snap ring gap to wide and wheel bearings too loose. This can damage axle, hub flange, spindle, bearing & races and CV joint over time. Cure is to replace hub flange and front drive shafts (rebuilt) with OEM.

Grease cap & snap ring removed from front wheel hub, reveals teeth of axle & hub flange:

Teeth worn on hub flange: part # 43421-60060

Second; you didn't mention the 4 spider joints (AKA u-joints) and 2 propeller shaft slip yokes being greased at the 6 zerks. How do they look?

Bad spider:

I'd looked at these before differentials or transfer case.

 

[nissanh]

Thanks for the reply and the pictures.

There was little to no metal shavings on the drain plug magnet. Was very normal.

The u-joints and the slip-yoke are in perfect shape (I checked those)

I hold the pinion FLANGE and spun 1/4 of a turn while BOTH front wheels on the ground.

While the engine is running I asked my wife to shift between R and D (holding brake) then I went to observe both CV axles. The pinion/drive shaft made that big turn but non of the CV axles turned.

 

[2001LC]

I'm very surprised you didn't see a lot of metal. Was old gear lube fairly clean, like it had been flushed recently?

 

[DirtDawg]

Definitely sounds like the diff... But as pointed out above, it makes no sense that there was little to no metal on the drain plug unless they recently swapped it.

 

[tarbe]

I'd be telling my wife the only cure is an ARB.

How many miles on your truck?

 

[2001LC]

^^^

 

[nissanh]

I bought it about 2 months ago. No, the seller didn't mention about a new front diff or any oil flush. When I drained it, oil was clear and very normal for a differential. 222K miles

I too suspect diff should have metal shavings but was surprised to note clean drain plug. Could it be too wide backlash.
Does anyone know the proper backlash for this model? A thread that I can use to rebuild this diff.? If something goes bad, I found a brand new diff at cruisernet for $1400.

 

[DirtDawg]

If the diff oil was clear then it was just replaced.

 

[nissanh]

I drained the oil few minutes agao. For the last 200 miles since the oil change, there was some metal shavings in the magnet.

Pulled the drive line from the pinion flange. I'd say there is about 1 mm backlash in the ring gear/pinion.

Also found the following:
About 2 mm play (in the turning direction) in the CV axle at CV to diff joint and CV to wheel hub on both driver and passenger sides. Is this normal? 4runner has a nut to the wheel hub so it is solid there.

 

[Bomar]

I don't know how far you are away from these guys but they do very good work. Dont know about diff work but I bet they do.

wtor

 

[nissanh]

I don't know how far you are away from these guys but they do very good work. Dont know about diff work but I bet they do.

wtor

Thank you! They are not too far from me (2 hours) I called them and yes, they build diffs!!
Also, they don't seem to be too pricy too!!

Thanks!

 

[Bomar]

Awesome that is what make mud very cool.

 

[sammybones]

Word.

 

[shibubba]

I have the exact same issue with my 05. I will be installing new oe cv's, mainly because mine are leaking grease. Will be installing new drive flanges too.

I will post back when I get them changed.

 

[nissanh]

I may go with non OEM CV's. Do you have the part number for the flage L and R?
Tomorrow, I plan to drop the front diff. Going to get a transmission lift jack from HF to lower the diff.

 

[shibubba]

I can get it for you later today. I am just off to work right now. It will be that same pn for both sides. I ordered 6 flange gaskets, for trail repairs and the like....

 

[2001LC]

***
I hold the pinion FLANGE and spun 1/4 of a turn while BOTH front wheels on the ground.
***** The pinion/drive shaft made that big turn but non of the CV axles turned.

**
Pulled the drive line from the pinion flange. I'd say there is about 1 mm backlash in the ring gear/pinion.
Also found the following:
About 2 mm play (in the turning direction) in the CV axle at CV to diff joint and CV to wheel hub on both driver and passenger sides. Is this normal? 4runner has a nut to the wheel hub so it is solid there.

You've gone from 1/4 turn down to 1mm on pinion. Am I misunderstanding you?

Backlash is measure at Ring Gear 0.13 - 0.18 mm. That is much less than 1 mm you've observed, but I'd not worry at all with it.

I may go with non OEM CV's. Do you have the part number for the flage L and R?
Tomorrow, I plan to drop the front diff. Going to get a transmission lift jack from HF to lower the diff.

By flange, I assume your asking about Hub Flange 43421-60060 cost ~ $50.

CVJ in Denver rebuilds OEM for ~$125. Plus a core charge of $75, but only refunds for OEM. Some aftermarkets front Drive shaft's (AKA CV's) are ok, but I couldn't tell you which ones. As always OEM is best. With rebuilt front drive shaft the axle teeth will most likely be worn a bit. Dealer's, to eliminate the N to D clunk "under warrantee" always go with new OEM Front Drive shafts and Hub Flanges.

If you've got only 1mm backlash at pinion flange, I'd not pull differential. Go back to post #2 and check teeth of axle to hub flange, then CV joints first. This is most common cause of clunk.

Some clunk is to be expected with any high millage rig.

 

[nissanh]

Wish I check the thread before I went to work with my truck... Oops I pulled the diff out. As 2001LC said; the diff is in good condition. No broken teeth in either ring gear or pinion (see pictures: All directions of the ring gear)! This is a big relief! Whew... the ratio is 43/10 : 4.30

The blackslash as I checked yesterday with a screwdriver through the fill plug is about 1 mm.

I think 2001LC is super correct. I probably need CV's and the flange. Will check with CVJ in Denver if not, will get from ebay. Since I now know the steps to get there, I am not worried a bit to do this again.

Do you think it is good to replace the pinion oil seal at the same time? however, there is no oil leaks at the moment.

 

[2001LC]

Replace any seals, that parts it seals, has been pulled apart. If you didn't pull pinion don't touch that seal.