diesels?

[LukeO]

who's running the 3B in their Cruiser? Or whatever the little 4 banger toyota diesel is?

I've heard rumors that these 4 cylinder diesel engines get about 30 miles to the gallon. Any truth to that?

I'm getting sick of how much I spend at the pump every month between driving a 80 series with 35's and a stock 40.

At this point, if the little 4 banger diesel gets at least 20 mpg I'd be happy and would say even though one would be expensive, a Toyota diesel engine swap would be cheaper than buying another car/insurance/gas long term.

 

[paulj]

Do you homework, and realize that those things have like 98 HP. And you thought the 40 with a 2F was slow..

 

[Badfish740]

Do you homework, and realize that those things have like 98 HP. And you thought the 40 with a 2F was slow..

Three words...Cummins Turbo Diesel I bet a 6BT would fit just fine in an 80-I've seen it done in a 60 anyway.

 

[lowenbrau]

You can get good mileage out of a BJ40 or BJ42 if you keep it close to stock. Once you get into the 35" tire range you will have trouble getting high teens. A turbo helps a lot.

I have a very low miles 2B which came out of a jap spec BJ41 for sale cheap if you are serious.

 

[cruiser_guy]

My BJ60 has the 3B. It was OK without the turbo but nothing to write home about. Now with the turbo I'm quite satisfied. I run alot of hills here in Guatemala and generally do OK.
I've NEVER been a fan of the V8's though. I don't need that kind of acceleration. I have pulled an FJ55 with a non-turbo BJ60 as well as an FJ55 shell on a flatbed with my turbo'd 3B from Santa Clarita in California to Vancouver, B.C. Both were well in excess of the rated towing capacity. It wasn't fast up the "gravevine" at Gorman but it made it more or less as fast as the semi's. On the flats in San Joaquin Valley we could maintain 65 - 70 mph. I know the cost to run it is MUCH less than a gasser. If you drive the diesel like it's a gasser you won't like it, drive it like the diesel that it is and it's much better.

 

[ridgerunner]

Do you homework, and realize that those things have like 98 HP. And you thought the 40 with a 2F was slow..

A nice little turbo and there won't be any comparison.

 

[dieseldog]

I love both of my 3B-equipped cruisers. One's turbo'd and the other soon shall be. Yes, the US$ vs. the AUS$ is kinda crappy right now; however, I'll knuckle under and buy the AXT kit like I did for the BJ-42. It's been a great performance enhancer. And I'll agree with what a prior poster stated. Drive a diesel like a diesel and not like you're Parnelli Jones and you'll reap the benefit. NOTE: The 30 mpg figure you sometimes hear bandied about is more than likely a Canadian giving you a quote in Imperial gallons which, of course, are larger than U.S. gallons. You should expect something on the order of 20-25 mpg using U.S. gallons and a moderate foot on the throttle behind a well-tuned and maintained 3B. That's still miles and smiles ahead of any of the gassers, IMHO.

 

[rgsiii]

I would agree with Dieseldog. My BJ42 Turbo'd with 33" tires and traveling at speed limits will get 20-22 mpg. I think the Canadian figure of 30mpg might have something to do with the Imperial measurements, more likely they are trying to sell their BJ's to Americans.

The 30 mpg figure is often quoted on ebay by Canadians. The only other BJ42 owner that I know gets about 20 mpg.

 

[Radd Cruisers]

I would agree with Dieseldog. My BJ42 Turbo'd with 33" tires and traveling at speed limits will get 20-22 mpg. I think the Canadian figure of 30mpg might have something to do with the Imperial measurements, more likely they are trying to sell their BJ's to Americans.

The 30 mpg figure is often quoted on ebay by Canadians. The only other BJ42 owner that I know gets about 20 mpg.

Ya I also get 30MPG and yes it is a slow driver, but for me its plenty fast enough as I need to be no where quick.


Would not trade it for my wifes 80 that gets 14MPG Imperial.

 

[honk]

Diesel, diesel, diesel....blah,blah,blah.

People spend ungodly amounts to obtain their fabled diesel engines and gain perhaps five, maybe ten miles per gallon at a loss of performance and unexpected costs for filters, additives, and increased scheduled maintenance frequency.

So how much does it cost per mile to obtain the savings? Or rather how long will it be before this diesel begins to pay for itself?

Oh, but have you heard about biodiesel? I can MAKE MY OWN FUEL!! And they give it away at every Mexican restaurant. Well, that's true. There are still places who actually appreciate that you would save them the disposal costs they pay to get rid of their cooking waste. But for how long? Even now more and more places that were once reliable sources have shut it down realizing that they can make some money out of their veggie oil. When you ask watch their eyes narrow. But even with cheap sources have you ever been a slave? You'll become a slave to your fuel brewing, spending so much time with it in WORK, discussions, reading, and scurrying around for this and that that you'll have a tough time remembering that you once had a life. Oh and free fuel isn't exactly free. With all oof the costs added up people have reported per gallon amounts between about fifty cents and a dollar eighty per. And it keeps rising. Remember that proponents of the benefits are speaking with a bias. They often don't like to appear to be ridiculous either - imagine that!

Those of you with community CCRs - think your neighbors will let you keep an increasingly complex fuel production plant going at home? What about when the agencies who like to collect money get wind of what you're doing? And wind is relevant because the process smells. Eventually it'll be back to the pump you go where diesel is often more expensive than gasoline.

All the money, time, and effort and you've saved exactly what?

(see signature for two diesel powered trucks, eh)

 

[tobydog]

When fuel hits 4.00 a gal. 10 more miles per gonna look pretty good.

 

[dieseldog]

Honk, there are many, many untruths in your writing; however, let me start by saying that folks who have an interest in biodiesel and SVO activities have that interest often for the express purpose of environmental responsibilty, etc. It's not always merely about saving on fuel. For many of us it's about reducing our ecological "footprint". I like the idea of going "off grid". For now, I use biodiesel as merely an additive and lubricity enhancer, but I hope to get to the point where I can scale up more than that.

Now, as to untruths . . . I would say that your first paragraph refers to "an increased maintenance schedule"; however, the truth of the matter is that diesel vehicles have a DECREASED maintenance schedule. No plugs, no distributor, no messing with timing like with a gasser. The oil change frequency is no more often than with a gasser and I guess the only thing you could be referring to would be that a lot of us dieseleers go with more exotic than factory regarding our fuel filtration systems. I'll give you that one; however, that is by choice. Yes, diesel fuel is more hygroscopic than gasoline and our fuel filters often do more than merely filter particulates. By and large, my diesels are FAR more maintenance-free than any gas vehicle I ever owned.

And I don't believe for one minute that they'll try to tax the fuel I make for my own use. As long as I don't make it for distribution/sale to others, then screw 'em. It's like making beer and wine for your own consumption. They'll never tax that, and they'll never tax this. Just my .02 worth. I do grant the point that many folks deed restrictions might serve as an impediment to having a home processor; however, if you're smart, you don't do it at home but rather at a more "industrial" location.

I do agree that many previously free sources of WVO will change their tune when they see that what they used to have to pay to get rid of may now be a modest source of income from interested parties; however, there is a limit to that as well. Many of the commercial biodiesel processors use virgin veggie oil and I would think that the cost of virgin veggie oil would be far greater than an absolute limit of what a WVO seller could ever hope to get for their stuff. There would be a point of diminishing returns that would make using WVO undesireable. Imagine if states or communities mandated recycling WVO, then the market would be much more stable.

The long and short of it is that while I choose to spend a lot of time tinkering with my seven diesels, I did the same when I owned gassers and that is just my style of ownership. Most folks would submit that diesels are far less maintenance-intensive than a gasser. (And yes, I see that you have two Dodge Cummins.)

 

[Jetboy]

THere was an article a few years back in fourwheeler about the new duramax when it first came out. The upgrade was something like $8,000. anyway with the addditional cost of maintainance and the mileage difference it only took 30k miles to become cheaper, with the mileage I drive that becomes a very good return on equity. It is much cheeper to operate a diesel, but the set up cost is quite high in the US. wanting diesels in our 40's. For those of us like myself who use our cruisers as a toy and not a daily driver the diesel will not pay it's self off. My cruiser saw about 1000 miles last year, so I don't think the savings is worth it for me, but If I had a low cost option I would probably switch to diesel.
Just my thoughts

 

[wesintl]

I usually see about 22-23 mpg. At sea level the 3B is about equal to a 2f. now get on some hills or altitude and the 3B is like driving a 65 vw bus. still working on the turbo probject.

 

[Doug_S]

Propane?

What about a propane conversion? I've spoken with Propane Guy and he can fix you up for about $300 US (kit with all parts) or $1200 US (fully installed) with about a week turnaround.

You'll need the 200 "mixer" and air cleaner kit. I believe that it also comes with a 20 gallon tank which should get you quite a long way. You can also get an adapter hose to fill out of tanks originally designed to fill BBQ tanks. These are available,as you probably know, at a lot of gas stations.

With propane about $1.60...it sounds tempting to me. Also much cleaner on the environment and on the engine. One thing that worries me, however, is that he wants to put the tank under the rig by the rear axle - scary spot. He's located in Surrey, BC about 20 miles over the border from Blaine. If you wanted to wait, you can stay at my place while the retrofit is being done. Just my .02. There is regular train service, I think, from Seattle to Surray.

 

[haystax]

I don't think there is any way a diesel conversion in a 40 series can realistically pay for itself - great idea, kinda cool and I hope to put a 4BT Cummins in mine someday - but, there is way too much involved for the benefit of slightly higher mileage

Take the money you think it would cost to do the swap and then look through Autotrader for a Geo or maybe two of them, drive them into the ground getting 45+MPG and then just figure on finding old crappy tin can commuter cars and leave your 40 alone.

My main vehicle is a '02 Powerstroke - love the power, love the comfort and size of vehicle and need the diesel for the towing I do - the mileage is nothing to brag about but is still double the mileage of a V10 and has way more usable power - the price difference is around $6500 for the diesel and auto trans - over a short period it is hard to recoup that initial cost but considering the life of the engine is around 275K - it surpasses a gas guzzler in the long run. Maintenance is only slightly higher than gas, mostly just the expense of extra oil capacity which is basically the cheapest insurance policy around - I will never drive another new vehicle that isn't diesel powered ever again. Conversions are a lot different though -

 

[landcruiserrich]

Diesels may requre less routine maintenance than gassers, but check out the costs when something on a diesel goes wrong: Injectors,injector pumps,turbos if you got them and extremely high rebuild cost. Yes gas prices are going up, but so are diesel prices. The extra life and mileage you can get from a diesel is offset by cheaper initial and rebuild costs on gas engines. I don't have any figures to back this up however, just experience maintaining both gas and diesel engines on the farm over the years.

The appeal of the diesel is the cool noise, low end power and increased range.
Gas engines are cheaper to buy and rebuild and are generally easier for the shadetree mechanic to maintain and find parts for.


The debate will always be there, but will never be won by either side, it's a matter of preference. My preference is for gas engines in cruisers simply because that's what I have and it works. To me engine conversions seem like alot of trouble, but I haven't rebuilt my F engine yet so I may change my mind when that time comes.

 

[cruiser_guy]

I look at it this way. When I bought my 'Cruiser in the late '80's the GM 350 "diesel" had just soured almost everyone against diesels I had a lot of criticism from fellow employees at that time let me tell you!
With the FJ45LV restoration as with the FJ55, if the existing gas engine turns out to be decent I'll go with that but if I've got to start shelling out cash for a replacement engine or a rebuild, that cash is going to go into the engine that makes economic sense and that's a diesel. For the FJ45LV it'll be either a 13B-T or 12B-T if I can find one here otherwise it'll be the faithful "underpowered" 3B with an aftermarket turbo. I sincerly doubt that there is any increased maintenance cost on the 3B over a 2F and it's probably much cheaper to maintain the 3B. Even the oil capacity is slightly less.

 

[haystax]

It really is a personal preference for maintenance as landcruiserrich said above - I prefer working on diesels myself - much simpler design, no fawkin plugs or ignition systems, generally longer service intervals and less periodic maintenance - when overhaul is required, it can be more labor intensive and costly.

Really depends on the make of the engine - even Toyota gasser parts and overhaul kits are way, way more money than the Chevy or Ford counterparts. Diesels are the same, I would imagine that rebuild prices for Toyota diesels are higher than most domestic brands of diesels as well.

Just make a spreadsheet on mileage per year and fuel costs/yr and see how long it may take to recoup your costs - then double your expected costs for the swap and run it again to see what should be a high side estimate (probably will be closer to actual though) and see if that makes sense for you.

Then take lots of pictures and keep all your part numbers and post it up for the rest of us diesel freaks to try for ourselves.

 

[Radd Cruisers]

Diesel conversions are expensive, we look at it as a long term relationship which may never pay off.

The reason I like diesel engines are as mentioned lack of electrical, especially the older mechanical engines in comparision to the newer electronic controled units.


Although underpowered in chevy 350 terms, I am more than pleased with the power and really enjoy the torque when crawling on trails.


We are comparing apples and oranges, I would prefer to never own another gasser if possible.


15 years ago when diesel was less than half the price of gas I was loving it, now it hurts just as bad as filling my wifes 80 series, except I over double here fuel economy.