I might have missed it but what did you use for the parking brake?
Secondly, are you happy with the K&N air filter?
Secondly, are you happy with the K&N air filter?
Cummins B3.3 FJ45
- Thread starter Eco 45
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And the stock 1f @ 125hp and 209 tq (189 tq pre-1960)
Compared to Cummins B3.3 @ 85hp & 215 lb-ft tq.
Looks to me like a daily driven truck would benefit from 3.70 difs, a 5 speed and 33" tires. That combination based on an H55 tranny in top gear would give:
1600rpm.......... 49.8 mph
1800rpm.......... 56.0 mph
*2000rpm.......... 62.2mph
2200rpm.......... 68.5mph
2400rpm.......... 74.7mph
That jump from 2000rpm to 2200rpm looks suspect but the math checks out.
The same combination as above but w/ 4.10 difs would net:
1600rpm.......... 44.9 mph
1800rpm.......... 50.5 mph
*2000rpm.......... 56.2 mph
2200rpm.......... 61.8 mph
2400rpm.......... 67.4 mph
* 2000rpm listed in bold based on Bikerso's comment regarding max fuel efficiency.
Disclaimer: I don't do this very often and have no idea what I'm talking about.
1600rpm.......... 49.8 mph
1800rpm.......... 56.0 mph
*2000rpm.......... 62.2mph
2200rpm.......... 68.5mph
2400rpm.......... 74.7mph
That jump from 2000rpm to 2200rpm looks suspect but the math checks out.
The same combination as above but w/ 4.10 difs would net:
1600rpm.......... 44.9 mph
1800rpm.......... 50.5 mph
*2000rpm.......... 56.2 mph
2200rpm.......... 61.8 mph
2400rpm.......... 67.4 mph
* 2000rpm listed in bold based on Bikerso's comment regarding max fuel efficiency.
Disclaimer: I don't do this very often and have no idea what I'm talking about.
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Legion
So the sweet spot of that engine is 2,000 RPM for best mpg?
So the sweet spot of that engine is 2,000 RPM for best mpg?
Very cool.
What were the advance mpg assumptions for this engine in the given application? I'm another who's interested to hear some mileage numbers, actual or even estimated.
This seems like a moderate-enough build which could be a good baseline example for others interested in DD-type use. If it were in someone's super-mod rock buggy it wouldn't be as broadly valuable as a teaching example as I think this one will, which makes it even cooler. To me, at least.
What were the advance mpg assumptions for this engine in the given application? I'm another who's interested to hear some mileage numbers, actual or even estimated.
This seems like a moderate-enough build which could be a good baseline example for others interested in DD-type use. If it were in someone's super-mod rock buggy it wouldn't be as broadly valuable as a teaching example as I think this one will, which makes it even cooler. To me, at least.
I snagged that from Bikerso's review, here:
Bikerso said:
I did find some torque and hp curves on the net a few days ago but can't seem to find 'em now. I'll root around a little more this afternoon and see what I can drag up and I'll post a link here.
I can't answer to what Bikerso had hoped for but here's his comment regarding current fuel mileage:
Bikerso said:
Rooting around on the web I've seen comments indicating that vehicles repowered w/ the B3.3 are getting from low 20's to somewhere in the 40's. I've guessed that the guys saying they're getting 40 plus might be inclined toward optimism... or maybe they're driving something that doesn't have the drag coefficient of a brick.
I'm ready to know.
How much does a turnkey repower cost with a new B3.3 & new 5sp (like an H55 or similar) tranny?
Proffit's? You got a ballpark figure? I saw a cost of roughly $20k on your site for an 80 and damn near coughed out a lung. I'm guessing it's significantly less expensive for an older rig, no?
Bikerso? You in this business too?
For reference purposes my truck is a '64 45SWB fixed cab and while on the topic is there a better (and shorter?) tranny choice than the H55?
How much does a turnkey repower cost with a new B3.3 & new 5sp (like an H55 or similar) tranny?
Proffit's? You got a ballpark figure? I saw a cost of roughly $20k on your site for an 80 and damn near coughed out a lung. I'm guessing it's significantly less expensive for an older rig, no?
Bikerso? You in this business too?
For reference purposes my truck is a '64 45SWB fixed cab and while on the topic is there a better (and shorter?) tranny choice than the H55?
- Thread starter
- #49
B3.3 Data
Here are some specs for the B3.3---see photos. As far as expected fuel mileage---with this engine/ tranny combo I was expecting in the low to mid 20's. For a person to reach the 30+ range you will have to run 3.7 gears in your diffs and have a transmission with an overdrive. The 700R4 might be a good choice as it overdrive offers a 30% reduction. If you wanted to reach the high 30 mpg you would need to find a set of axles with better ratio than 3.7. Torque begins to drop off at 1600 RPM --but I stated 2000 RPM as the sweet spot because it is obtainable using 3.7 diffs and an overdrive tranny driving at Highway speeds. If you look at the fuel chart it is a steady climb as the rpms increase ----so the lower you keep the rpms the better fuel economy and the closer you stay to peak torque the more power you will have available.
Here are some specs for the B3.3---see photos. As far as expected fuel mileage---with this engine/ tranny combo I was expecting in the low to mid 20's. For a person to reach the 30+ range you will have to run 3.7 gears in your diffs and have a transmission with an overdrive. The 700R4 might be a good choice as it overdrive offers a 30% reduction. If you wanted to reach the high 30 mpg you would need to find a set of axles with better ratio than 3.7. Torque begins to drop off at 1600 RPM --but I stated 2000 RPM as the sweet spot because it is obtainable using 3.7 diffs and an overdrive tranny driving at Highway speeds. If you look at the fuel chart it is a steady climb as the rpms increase ----so the lower you keep the rpms the better fuel economy and the closer you stay to peak torque the more power you will have available.
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Estimate
I have ran the numbers - a new H55/split case, with driveline mods, adapters and the whole shabang your looking at at least $10+ easy.
I think the cheapest route, by my calcs, would be a 700R4, stock t-case and stock gears. Your still going to need the Phx. adapter to b3.3 and the AA adapter to t/case, but you 'shouldnt' have to regear axles and you still have a decent crawl ratio (if you factor the 2:1 advantage an auto gives you).
The Ranger OD is a nice setup - but your stuck with the crappy low gears of the H42. You could step up to an H41 with Ranger, but might as well go H55/split for marginally more.
Another viable option, if the 3.3 didn't rip the tranny apart, would be a R150/R151 from a mini truck, mini-t/case and centered rear diff., but that is getting a bit out there.
I still think the 700R4 is the best bang for you buck.
I have ran the numbers - a new H55/split case, with driveline mods, adapters and the whole shabang your looking at at least $10+ easy.
I think the cheapest route, by my calcs, would be a 700R4, stock t-case and stock gears. Your still going to need the Phx. adapter to b3.3 and the AA adapter to t/case, but you 'shouldnt' have to regear axles and you still have a decent crawl ratio (if you factor the 2:1 advantage an auto gives you).
The Ranger OD is a nice setup - but your stuck with the crappy low gears of the H42. You could step up to an H41 with Ranger, but might as well go H55/split for marginally more.
Another viable option, if the 3.3 didn't rip the tranny apart, would be a R150/R151 from a mini truck, mini-t/case and centered rear diff., but that is getting a bit out there.
I still think the 700R4 is the best bang for you buck.
- Thread starter
- #51
Kief---using a transfer case parking brake--SOR product
As for the K and N so far so good---but I am currently just breaking in the engine so it will be a while to really tell---however I have had good luck with their products in the past on other rigs.
As for the K and N so far so good---but I am currently just breaking in the engine so it will be a while to really tell---however I have had good luck with their products in the past on other rigs.
It's great to see that the B3.3 conversion is showing some interest. We are very happy with Scott's conversion and are really excited about these B3.3's. These engines are not for everyone but we feel like it is a great power plant for a 40, 45 and Toyota mini-trucks. These engines would make a great daily driver 40 series that would return decent fuel mileage and could run alternative fuels.
We are actually in the process of another conversion. We are putting a B3.3 into a 1991 4 Runner with a 700R4/Marlin crawl box/mini-truck case. It currently sits on 80 axles and will be a mild wheeler/expedition rig.
We also have a couple more B3.3 conversions lined up for this spring. Both of these conversions will be running H55F's with 4.11 gearing on 33's. We believe that this combination will work well for these trucks. One will be in a 40 and the other in a 45 SWB pickup with custom flat bed for ranch/farm use. The 40 will be running a snorkel and the 45 will be receiving air conditioning.
Someone mentioned that this is a $10K+ conversion and they are correct, that is if you pay someone to do the conversion for you. It may be a little cheaper than that depending on what transmission is used and what the vehicle has on it to begin with. But $10K is a pretty good ball park for this type of conversion. However, that is using a brand new engine from Cummins. That's not too bad considering the engine is about $5K on it's own.
I talk diesel conversions on a daily basis, usually several times a day. What I tell people is this: You really have to want a diesel in your Cruiser to go through with the conversion. It will take a very long time to pay for a conversion in fuel savings alone. And with the price of diesel these days, it's not even that cost effective to run a diesel. Half the time, I talk people out of a diesel conversion. But..... there are people out there like Scott and myself who will hardly drive anything but a diesel.
I am actually halfway thinking about a B3.3 for my 65 SWB 45 pickup. I am on the fence of whether to leave it stock and drive it as is or just take the plunge and go with the B3.3/H55F combo. Decisions,, decisions.
With that being said, I would be more than happy to discuss what a B3.3 conversion costs and even write up a formal estimate for anyone who is interested. You can reach me by calling the shop at 1-877-PROFFITT or emailing at:
info@proffittscruisers.com
As far as fuel mileage goes, we were hoping that Scott would get a little better mlleage than low 20's. I believe fuel mileage would increase to the mid-20's with an overdrive transmission like a H55F or a 700R4 automatic. Of course we were hoping to get into the high 20's or even 30 as some people claim with the B3.3's. But, sometimes that is just wishful thinking.
For comparison, a 4BT powered 80 on 35's will get low 20's for fuel mileage. The best mileage that we have ever seen out of a 4BT powered Cruiser was my old FJ60 with a NV4500 5 speed with 33's and stock 3.73 gearing. I would consistently get 25-26 mpg.
Hope that helps. Again, please feel free to contact me if anyone would like to discuss the conversion.
We are actually in the process of another conversion. We are putting a B3.3 into a 1991 4 Runner with a 700R4/Marlin crawl box/mini-truck case. It currently sits on 80 axles and will be a mild wheeler/expedition rig.
We also have a couple more B3.3 conversions lined up for this spring. Both of these conversions will be running H55F's with 4.11 gearing on 33's. We believe that this combination will work well for these trucks. One will be in a 40 and the other in a 45 SWB pickup with custom flat bed for ranch/farm use. The 40 will be running a snorkel and the 45 will be receiving air conditioning.
Someone mentioned that this is a $10K+ conversion and they are correct, that is if you pay someone to do the conversion for you. It may be a little cheaper than that depending on what transmission is used and what the vehicle has on it to begin with. But $10K is a pretty good ball park for this type of conversion. However, that is using a brand new engine from Cummins. That's not too bad considering the engine is about $5K on it's own.
I talk diesel conversions on a daily basis, usually several times a day. What I tell people is this: You really have to want a diesel in your Cruiser to go through with the conversion. It will take a very long time to pay for a conversion in fuel savings alone. And with the price of diesel these days, it's not even that cost effective to run a diesel. Half the time, I talk people out of a diesel conversion. But..... there are people out there like Scott and myself who will hardly drive anything but a diesel.
I am actually halfway thinking about a B3.3 for my 65 SWB 45 pickup. I am on the fence of whether to leave it stock and drive it as is or just take the plunge and go with the B3.3/H55F combo. Decisions,, decisions.
With that being said, I would be more than happy to discuss what a B3.3 conversion costs and even write up a formal estimate for anyone who is interested. You can reach me by calling the shop at 1-877-PROFFITT or emailing at:
info@proffittscruisers.com
As far as fuel mileage goes, we were hoping that Scott would get a little better mlleage than low 20's. I believe fuel mileage would increase to the mid-20's with an overdrive transmission like a H55F or a 700R4 automatic. Of course we were hoping to get into the high 20's or even 30 as some people claim with the B3.3's. But, sometimes that is just wishful thinking.
For comparison, a 4BT powered 80 on 35's will get low 20's for fuel mileage. The best mileage that we have ever seen out of a 4BT powered Cruiser was my old FJ60 with a NV4500 5 speed with 33's and stock 3.73 gearing. I would consistently get 25-26 mpg.
Hope that helps. Again, please feel free to contact me if anyone would like to discuss the conversion.
Whats your take about the longevity of the 700R4 behind the 3.3?
Are you going to do a custom adapter from 3.3 to H55 - or dual adapters, phx to chevy the Marks/AA to H55?
I think the 700R4 will hold up pretty well behind the B3.3 as long as they are built right. We have our 700R4's specially built for our 4BT swaps. So far they are holding up fairly well. We had a couple of problems with the 700R4's when we used a different transmission builder. Now that we have a new tranny builder, they seem to be doing pretty well. It's definitely the questionable component in a 4BT swap but the B3.3 is not putting out the torque or the horsepower that the 4BT does.
We will use dual adpater for the H55F swaps. We will use the Phoenix casting and then the Advance Adapter GM to Toyota adapter. If we see a lot of B3.3 / Toyota transmission swaps, we may ask Phoenix castings or Advance Adapters to see what it would take to do a custom adapter.
Very VERY seriously considering this. I'm at a little bit of a stumbling block that others probably can't help much with but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts. Sorry that this is a slight hijack:
My truck is stock. Numbers don't match but it's stock and unmolested. Three on the tree / drums / armstrong, etc.
The thought I can't get out of my head is the whole thing about being the guy to have molested a 45 year survivor. By the same token... the engineering of the era was at least 20 years old by the time these hit the streets so it's a little like driving a stone axe.
Should I feel like a roach for eviscerating this old truck or should I just make it what I'd prefer? Here's a pic of the it now. I sent the truck off stateside a few months back for a frame off and it's about to start although the instructions I gave the resto co was to keep 'er looking right but w/ a 4" lift and taller tires. Stuff I could easily swap back if I got the hankerin'.
I'm going to have somebody drop a B3.3 in here unless the general consensus is that I'd be a complete Cretin for doing that. Might even then as I'm a partial Cretin anyway... but weigh in on this:
Good idea?
Bad idea?
(edit: pic added)
My truck is stock. Numbers don't match but it's stock and unmolested. Three on the tree / drums / armstrong, etc.
The thought I can't get out of my head is the whole thing about being the guy to have molested a 45 year survivor. By the same token... the engineering of the era was at least 20 years old by the time these hit the streets so it's a little like driving a stone axe.
Should I feel like a roach for eviscerating this old truck or should I just make it what I'd prefer? Here's a pic of the it now. I sent the truck off stateside a few months back for a frame off and it's about to start although the instructions I gave the resto co was to keep 'er looking right but w/ a 4" lift and taller tires. Stuff I could easily swap back if I got the hankerin'.
I'm going to have somebody drop a B3.3 in here unless the general consensus is that I'd be a complete Cretin for doing that. Might even then as I'm a partial Cretin anyway... but weigh in on this:
Good idea?
Bad idea?
(edit: pic added)
I'll offer a few thoughts:
Is it for sittin' or drivin'?
Can you afford a second one to modify and leave one prisitine?
Are you running a museum?
Do you feel 100% safe driving it stock; do you truly enjoy driving it as it originally came?
Does it have enough power to do what you want it to do?
Are you comfortable driving wherever you go?
Is it a long-term keeper, will you ever need to sell it to recapture your investment?
I think some of us have seriously contemplated the damage that refinements can make on a vehicle's historic value. I have heard folks say that we are but the custodians of some type of great work of art.
That seems a bit of a stretch. But in the end, the END, ya can't take it with you, or anything else for that matter, so I guess everything we own goes to somebody else, and effectively we are custodians of all our stuff.
You work hard for your money, have put a good deal of it into your truck, just to become a historical custodian for future generations doesn't seem quite fair.
One last thought: I bought a 150 year-old piece of European carved furniture. Probably took some craftsman years to intricately carve it by hand. It was very blackened when I got it, almost had to take a bright light to it to see the masterful job that had been done to create it.
I took it to a furniture restorer and had him carefully strip all the old dirt and finishes and waxes and whatnot off it, and apply a new clear finish on it. It looks outstanding, and everyone can see the great craftmanship on it. But.............as the Antiques Roadshow tells people, I just killed its value by removing the "aged-patina" of a hundred years or more.
So now, do I owe an apology to some furniture appraiser, will the world hate me for what I have done?
I am happy, and I didn't care about the money gained or lost. No one could see the value of the furniture since it was so very, very dark. And the way I figure, after I die, it will get passed around a bunch of times, and a bunch of grubby little dirty hands will touch it, it'll get banged and bruised, and waxed, and dirtied up, and in another 150 years should look just about the same as when I originally bought the dang thing!
Since no museum is banging down your door with a wheelbarrow load of cash for it, cash that you could use to find a second truck to tinker with, looks like the decision is pretty easy.
My vote: do what you want, not what anyone else shames you into feeling.
Is it for sittin' or drivin'?
Can you afford a second one to modify and leave one prisitine?
Are you running a museum?
Do you feel 100% safe driving it stock; do you truly enjoy driving it as it originally came?
Does it have enough power to do what you want it to do?
Are you comfortable driving wherever you go?
Is it a long-term keeper, will you ever need to sell it to recapture your investment?
I think some of us have seriously contemplated the damage that refinements can make on a vehicle's historic value. I have heard folks say that we are but the custodians of some type of great work of art.
That seems a bit of a stretch. But in the end, the END, ya can't take it with you, or anything else for that matter, so I guess everything we own goes to somebody else, and effectively we are custodians of all our stuff.
You work hard for your money, have put a good deal of it into your truck, just to become a historical custodian for future generations doesn't seem quite fair.
One last thought: I bought a 150 year-old piece of European carved furniture. Probably took some craftsman years to intricately carve it by hand. It was very blackened when I got it, almost had to take a bright light to it to see the masterful job that had been done to create it.
I took it to a furniture restorer and had him carefully strip all the old dirt and finishes and waxes and whatnot off it, and apply a new clear finish on it. It looks outstanding, and everyone can see the great craftmanship on it. But.............as the Antiques Roadshow tells people, I just killed its value by removing the "aged-patina" of a hundred years or more.
So now, do I owe an apology to some furniture appraiser, will the world hate me for what I have done?
I am happy, and I didn't care about the money gained or lost. No one could see the value of the furniture since it was so very, very dark. And the way I figure, after I die, it will get passed around a bunch of times, and a bunch of grubby little dirty hands will touch it, it'll get banged and bruised, and waxed, and dirtied up, and in another 150 years should look just about the same as when I originally bought the dang thing!
Since no museum is banging down your door with a wheelbarrow load of cash for it, cash that you could use to find a second truck to tinker with, looks like the decision is pretty easy.
My vote: do what you want, not what anyone else shames you into feeling.
- Thread starter
- #57
As you can tell I am no purist with these trucks with this B3.3 install. Any vintage vehicle that I own or work on is upgraded in a manner to make it safer, more reliable, better fuel efficiency and most importantly enjoyable to drive.
There are the purist out there that will jump up and down saying you are doing a great injustice to the history of the vehicle by changing anything---but to them I say when your single circuit brake system fails and you total your vehicle how is that preserving history? When with a few simple modification ---you can have a wonderful vehicle to drive and keep you safe. Vehicles are meant to be driven---they are not dust collectors---if you want to buy something to have just sitting around so that you can look at it buy a model.
I vote for any modification that will encourage you to drive the vehicle more no matter the weather conditions. I had someone comment the other day while driving my truck into town in a snow storm---you driving that nice truck in this weather?? I guess I missed the memo that stated vehicles should only be operated in sunny weather, low humidity with a 0% change of precipitation. Its your truck enjoy it---and there are always buyers for these rigs even when modified--unless you do something with purple and pink spots.
There are the purist out there that will jump up and down saying you are doing a great injustice to the history of the vehicle by changing anything---but to them I say when your single circuit brake system fails and you total your vehicle how is that preserving history? When with a few simple modification ---you can have a wonderful vehicle to drive and keep you safe. Vehicles are meant to be driven---they are not dust collectors---if you want to buy something to have just sitting around so that you can look at it buy a model.
I vote for any modification that will encourage you to drive the vehicle more no matter the weather conditions. I had someone comment the other day while driving my truck into town in a snow storm---you driving that nice truck in this weather?? I guess I missed the memo that stated vehicles should only be operated in sunny weather, low humidity with a 0% change of precipitation. Its your truck enjoy it---and there are always buyers for these rigs even when modified--unless you do something with purple and pink spots.
Legion, beautiful truck. I say as long as your updating the drivability of the truck then do it. It's your truck.
I have a 1980 numbers matching one owner (Diesel) truck out of Brisbane. I'm thinking about this hard for many reasons. A few of which are; I have a Cummins Shop 10 miles away. I can pull in there and get the motor serviced with no problems. I can get parts there, no problem.
I've had better luck with the local forklift company for engine parts than I have had with the local Toyota Dealership.
You can get a modern motor while still retaining the classic good looks that our trucks have. I think it's great.
I have a 1980 numbers matching one owner (Diesel) truck out of Brisbane. I'm thinking about this hard for many reasons. A few of which are; I have a Cummins Shop 10 miles away. I can pull in there and get the motor serviced with no problems. I can get parts there, no problem.
I've had better luck with the local forklift company for engine parts than I have had with the local Toyota Dealership.
You can get a modern motor while still retaining the classic good looks that our trucks have. I think it's great.
c) nice truckV
a)My truck is stock. ....
b) the engineering of the era was at least 20 years old by the time these hit the streets so it's a little like driving a stone axe.
c)
a) fine
b) that`s why I drive old cars,
want to feel the engeneering of these days ,
not only the silhouette
If you want a servo or other "goodies" buy a new car.
( just my two pence
)Keep it stock " old school " please
Cheers
Peter
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I think if it's done right go for it. The best part is you gain the ability to get it serviced and at the fuel economy comes with no extra charge. I personally would not do it just cause I want a tad bigger engine. I have a H diesel and it run fines but every now and then I would perfer it have a little more power. Another thing I don't like is having trouble locating simple stuff like oil filters. I usually buy 2 or 3 at a time just so I have them. All that said I still Like the H engine over the 2f hands down.
I personally would not do it just cause I want a tad bigger engine. I have a H diesel and it run fines but every now and then I would perfer it have a little more power. Another thing I don't like is having trouble locating simple stuff like oil filters. I usually buy 2 or 3 at a time just so I have them. All that said I still Like the H engine over the 2f hands down.