Cummins B3.3 FJ45

[pr0ject42]

With all of this being said, where can you source one of these engines? What bellhousing will bolt to it? It was mentioned earlier that it wouldn't jive too well in a wagon/55 but could you intercool it and slap a bigger turbo/intake/exhaust to overcome those power issues? Or would it just be ok in a wagon?

4bts are too popular and are becoming too spendy. 6bts are cheap but huge and overkill. This sounds like a nice compromise.

 

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

With all of this being said, where can you source one of these engines? What bellhousing will bolt to it? It was mentioned earlier that it wouldn't jive too well in a wagon/55 but could you intercool it and slap a bigger turbo/intake/exhaust to overcome those power issues? Or would it just be ok in a wagon?

4bts are too popular and are becoming too spendy. 6bts are cheap but huge and overkill. This sounds like a nice compromise.

Rocky Mtn Cummins in Sparks NV quoted me one yesterday. Then he even went so far as to direct me to Phoenix Castings as a source of pulleys and other vital parts.

 

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

I forgot to add, the price quoted was a little over 4k. If you look at the stock numbers of the "H" diesel, it's putting out 90 h.p. and 151 tq. the 2H is at 103 h.p. and 177 tq. and lastly compared to the 12ht @ 135 hp and 231 tq.

Then there's the stock 2f @ 135 hp and 210 tq.

I think this is a great option that should move pretty well. After all Enzo Ferrari said, H.P. sells cars, Torque wins races...


I'd like to see the mileage numbers after it's broken in.

 

[Grease Cruiser]

$4K is a pretty cheap quote from Cummins. Are you sure that was the 85 hp model? The last one we bought was $4850, $5100 with the intake heater and block heater installed. Adapters come from Phoenix castings and there are three different lengths of adapters for the B3.3 There is a short, medium, and long adapter. We are only familiar with the short adapters. Adapters are for a GM pattern. From there, you can go to a Toyota for a H55F.

People are playing with injection pumps and turbos on these engines for more power. The turbos that come on them are pretty small. With the right mods, it would push around a wagon pretty good. It may not ever be a rocket ship but it would be fine.

As I mentioned before, they are comparable to a 3B in stock form. They would be OK in a wagon but a touch underpowered if you are looking for performance. But then again, you could do some performance mods for more power.

Scott: Any mileage updates?

 

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

I said a little over 4k, because I tend to automatically round down out of the Habit of running "Black Ops" from the . She's catching on though...

That and I didn't have my notes from yesterday when I posted that.

 

[legion]

I live about as high up in the mountains as you can drive above Anchorage and it seems to me that the less power and less torque (even minimally) would be a step in the wrong direction for me.

Would the B3.9 be as clean a fit? I think it's about 3" longer. What were your reasons for choosing this 3.3 over the 3.9?

 

[D'Animal]

People are playing with injection pumps and turbos on these engines for more power. The turbos that come on them are pretty small. With the right mods, it would push around a wagon pretty good. It may not ever be a rocket ship but it would be fine.

I checked into this when I had my Bosch pump rebuilt. There is no magic HP upgrade to a diesel, just like a gass motor. If you change one item, it will have an effect on another item. Sometimes this effect is not a possitive one in the long run.

 

[orangefj45]

love the truck scott! threads like this make mud so appealing to me/ lots of info, friendly open discussion and a strong sense of community.

thanks for all the info john, much appreciated!

scott, any chance you're gonna bring the 45 to the "fj45 run" this year? one of these years we'll actually get greae cruiser to show up. ;p

 

[RAYJON]

the main reason for the 3.3 over the 3.9 is height.. it has a shorter stroke and deck height. this makes it alot eaiser install into a 40... the main problem with the 3.9 is height and weight.. the 3.3 is a great little motor..

you can even get a ISM common rail version.. more $$$ that is very quiet..

great little motor they started building them in 1998..... They are built in Japan by Komatsu and imported as a joint venture. They are in alot of Komatsu small equipment and loaders.. 55-85 hp, the common rail versions go higher... 113hp if I remember correctly....

 

[Eco 45]

Update--sorry no new photos

Been on a short hiatus as family invaded me for a few days. The truck is now running around on 33" tires and will cruise comfortably up to 65 mph---will do 70 but seems to be pushing it a bit much.

Fuel economy update----based on GPS data---as anything over 40 mph and the speedo gets off by about 5 mph. The truck is returning about 23 mpg on a new engine--less than 500 miles on it and cruising in a variety of RPM---although I tend to run at about 55 mph (2500 rpm) more than any other range as I am a few miles outside of town. For maximum fuel efficiency the engine should be kept at 2000 rpm--which means if you want to get the most bank for your buck better have an overdrive or 5 speed.

From what I have read a few guys are getting 100 + HP by adding an intercooler, raising the boost by a couple and increasing the fuel from the fuel pump. If you just turn up the pump all you will do is blow black smoke and waist fuel. For any diesel to increase HP you need to add more air, fuel and make sure the exhaust is not restrictive---most stock diesel engine can handle up to 5 psi boost from factory settings---some can handle more but you had better do your homework as you could greatly reduce your engines life.

Oh and John I had to give you a little bit of a hard time becasue I still have the image of you driving my truck with ear muffs on---probably the fluffy kind!! I have found that now that I have eliminated most of the rattles anything over 50 and you get more air noise than engine noise. And I have been making sure to drive this truck on only offroad trails---although some have these strange black rocks covering them with white and yellow rocks on each side---strange how mother nature works.

Also today showed the truck to another cruiser nut and took him for spin--he thought the truck performed better than his stock 2F with four speed tranny-also thought the install looked real clean--thanks again for the help Proffitts--maybe he will chime in and give his full opinion of the performance of the truck. All I know is that I am lining up a few more 45's for this swap--maybe even a 45 SWB. And once this trucks engine is broken in--I will be testing it on SVO as well--nothing like being able to run a vehicle on several types of fuel. More updates to come and photos.

 

[legion]

Looking through the literature it sounds to me like the next step up in this motor's design (something called a high pressure common rail fuel system?) makes quite a bit more ooomph and is quieter to boot.

I'd be seriously interested in something like this but have a definite concern about sound and the kind of sound as well. Some of the Cummins engines I've heard sounded like crap... rattley, bad... like a Detroit that was coming apart. Some of 'em sounded great, too... like a bus or a big piece of equipment. Scott, can you describe the sound a little better? The rattley part you mentioned earlier I've assumed to be mostly loose stuff on your cab. The motor though; does it have a nice, throaty, industrial diesel sound to it or is it more of a clackety "I'm chewing on bolts" kind of a sound?

From Cummins:

The QSB3.3 combines the proven reliability of the B3.3 with Cummins Quantum System electronic controls and a High Pressure Common Rail fuel system for performance previously unavailable in an industrial engine this size.
Because the QSB3.3 maintains the fuel efficiency and minimal service requirements of the B3.3, it offers the same low operating costs.

Specifications.*
Advertised Horsepower 80-110 hp 60-82 kW
Peak Torque 274-304 lb-ft 371-412 N•m
Cylinders 4
Bore And Stroke 3.74 in x 4.53 in 95 mm x115 mm
Oil System Capacity 8.5-12.7 U.S. qt 8-12 L**
Coolant System Capacity*** 4.9 U.S. qt 4.6 L**
Aspiration Charge Air Cooled
Length 27.7 in 702 mm
Width 24.3 in 616 mm
Height 29.9 in 760 mm
Weight (dry) 585 lb 265 kg
*No customer options
**L = Liters/Litres

***For engine only

The advanced features of the QSB3.3 provide many benefits whether you are powering a skid steer loader, forklift, aerial work platform, mini-excavator, backhoe loader, compaction equipment, sweeper, genset, welder or landscape equipment:
High Pressure Common Rail Fuel System - Dramatically reduces engine noise while providing more responsive power and better fuel efficiency at every rpm. The fuel system is capable of delivering high injection pressure of 800-1100 bar (11,600-16,000 psi).
In-Cylinder Combustion Technology - Meets Tier 3/Stage IIIA emissions standards without external components; is compatible with high-sulfur fuels for worldwide use.
Heavy-Duty Durability - The camshaft, crankshaft and rods are all made of forged steel, and the pistons are a one-piece aluminum design for strength and durability.
Full-Authority Electronic Controls - Optimize engine performance and provide seamless integration with other components. Include advanced diagnostics.
Cast Iron Cylinder Block - Parent bore design with deep skirts and structural ribs to increase stiffness and resist torsional stresses.
Two-Valve Crossflow Cylinder Head - Designed to improve breathing and resist thermal fatigue.
Simple Wastegated Turbocharger - Wastegated for better low-speed performance and high-speed boost.

Engine Model Advertised hp (kW) @ rpm Peak Torque lb-ft (N•m) @ rpm
QSB3.3 110* 110 (82) @ 2400 304 (412) @ 1400
QSB3.3 99 99 (74) @ 2600 304 (412) @ 1400
QSB3.3 99 99 (74) @ 2200 304 (412) @ 1400
QSB3.3 85 85 (63) @ 2600 274 (371) @ 1400
QSB3.3 80 80 (60) @ 2200 274 (371) @ 1400
All ratings are intermittent unless otherwise noted. Additional ratings may be available. Check with your Cummins distributor or dealer. All ratings are Tier 3 capable.
*Indicates restricted rating.

 

[Eco 45]

Legion---the rattling noise was definitely the door windows and loose hardware throughout the truck--not the engine. Some of the very old 12 valve 6 cylinder cummins were a bit noisy---but I have found the newer cummins say 95 and on don't have the Detroit noise you described.

The B3.3 I would say would fall between the noise level of a 12 valve 6 cylinder dodge cummins and the 24 valve 6 cylinder dodge cummins engine. A 4BT falls in the area of the early 12 valve dodge cummins engines and takes a special person to appreciate.

The QSB engines sound good on paper---but what you have to remember is that their programming is set up for an industrial use--and thus fuel, rpm and horsepower may have limits that will not play with a vehicle being used in every day driving. These engines cannot be played with like an all mechanical engine---no one makes chips for these engines and unless you can find someone to write a program for the computer you are stuck with the power levels set by the factory. If one of your sensors go out then the engine will likely fall into a limp mode or shut down completely--even if nothing mechanical is wrong.

The B3.3 engine if a fully mechanical engine with the only power needed to run a fuel shut off valve---only one electrical wire goes to the engine---no computer no sensors. The QSB engine use the same block as I understand---which stand to reason---if you are willing to play you should be able to achieve the same power levels as a QSB---but it will require some planning and understanding of the engine.

As I said in my earlier post to increse power on a diesel engine you need to increase air to the engine, fuel and reduce any restrictions in the exhaust. Add an intercooler, manual boost controller, up the fuel pump and have an open exhaust system and you could easily reach 100+ HP and more torque.

Another thing to remember is that HP means very little to diesel engines---Torque is the big key. Diesel develop a higher level of Torque at a lower RPM than gas engines---so even though they may have less HP the pulling forse of the torque will be there to move your vehicel. Hope this helps.

 

[legion]

Thanks for the comments, Scott. This idea sounds really interesting to me and I just so happen to have a 45SWB down stateside for a frame off. Hmmm...

Here are a couple of links that others might find interesting.

Cummins B3.3 in a Jeep at start up and idle.

(edit: there's something about this mud site that seems not to like embedded images. Try this link for the idle and start-up vid)

Driving down a snowy road (edit: link)



Cummins B3.3 in a Jeep, shifting gears 2-5 (tranny is a AX-15 or something like that) (edit: link)


Here's the thread.

Would you mind confirming the ratios in your transmission so I can run some numbers to get a virtual feel for what it might be like on hills? I've got 4.10's to your 3.73's.

On a related note, anybody know what the weight of the 1f or 2f is?

 

[arcteryx]

Very cool truck. I'd love to see/hear a video. I really like the fact that they are relatively new.

Having worked a deal with John that included my BJ70 for his 4BT80, I am very familiar with both engines. These are the same noise as a 3b? That's not much at all. The 3b's are louder than TDIs though. (I had 2 of them). The 4bts are loud on the outside, but with proper insulation like our 80 had, cabin noise was normal. I think this will be a pretty popular swap. Keep us posted on mpgs.

 

[Eco 45]

New Photos

Legion

The TH475 should have:

1st: 2.48
2nd: 1.48
3rd: 1.00

If you want to stay with 4.10 in the diffs than you will want a four speed transmission. I have pulled some decent hills here going 60mph in 3rd.

Here are a couple more photos--one showing the truck sitting on the 33 " tires, another one of my make shift defrost---PO removed all the venting and it is still cold here and finally the redneck way to keep the roof from vibrating taken from thread: https://forum.ih8mud.com/fj45-owners-club/265029-fj45-lwb-roof-cap-support.html

 

[Eco 45]

Engine photos

Here are a couple photos showing the front and rear of the engine to give people an idea of space needed to put one of these engines in. The large aluminum plate seen between the engine and transmission is the adapter from Phoenix Castings. I also included a photo of the stock Turbo---not a big unit but definitely get the truck moving.

 

[24HOURSOFNEVADA]

I'm digging this.

 

[D'Animal]

X - 2

I'm digging this.

 

[esh]

(doh, nevermind, none in stock)

Specter has used early (58-64) defrost vent guides-

Specter Off-Road-Land Cruiser Parts - Search On-120-10

They are kind of a pain if you want to ever put the windshield down, but that time of the year you probably won't use them anyways.


I bet Ehsan could get you a pair.

 

[nickwood48]

Nice setup

A big thanks to Scott for taking a couple hours out of his Sunday afternoon to show me his rig.

Scott has pretty much summed up most of the questions here and I agree with everything he has said. Generally speaking, here are the big questions I had.

Noise– It is not a Lexus, of course, but it is really about the same as some of the older dodge pickups I have ridden in. I think with some sound dampening material it wouldn’t be any worse than a stock rig. I personally like the noise, a nice low healthy diesel purr.

Power – Compared to my 78 40’, it felt just as fast, possibly quicker, from 0-35 but I think the 2F probably had it from 35-60. It is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison since I have a 4speed tranny and he has an auto, but it was plenty quick and cruised down the highway just fine wihout OD. I think with a manual overdrive, like a H55, the 3.3 would have felt just as quick as a 2F.

Engineering – exceptional, Proffitts/Scott did an outstanding job of putting this together. Loads of room in the engine bay and they did a nice, clean and sanitary install. The one thing that impressed me was the compactness of the motor. You can shove it right up to the radiator and have a good 1’ behind to the firewall. Fit great under the hood, even with the turbo up relatively high. The oil pan cleared the diff, but you ‘might’ run into some issues if you shoved the motor much further forward – although it seemed like the motor was about as far forward as you could get with the radiator in the stock location. Moving the motor back towards the firewall would actually net you more oil plan clearance it seemed like.

I took a few measurements, it seems like with Scott’s setup with the Th475, split case, phx adapter and the engine where it was, it would shorten the rear drive shaft on my 40 by about 5” or so.

I think it is the most viable option out there for engine swaps. It is a lot better fit than a 4BT, about the same cost as a Mercedes (if you factor in a rebuild) and much cheaper than the 2.8 internationals. Parts are easy to find and the engine is dead simple to work on. All the adapters are available so nothing custom or super $$. Finally, you can get away with a 3” lift like Scott has, possibly even less, depending on where the engine is.

Overall a super cool, clean and “affordable” swap – sign me up!