Charging system issues

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I wouldn't mess with the VR. I looked up and the ideal charging voltage for your wet cell ca-ca batteries is 14.3+/- 0.1. You've got two batteries that rest at somewhere around 50% charge connected with an isolator to your charging system. Who knows how those will play together.

If you want to try something to see if the VR and ammeter are working right, put in a single, known good battery and see how it behaves.
 
Hi Rudi, the fusible link has been replaced. All connecting plugs were also replaced and remain in like new condition.

Ed, i agree and believe that the electrical system in my old landcruiser is just about spot on to maintain the batteries for a good and long life of at least 5-6years. Given they have barely lasted half that im assuming something isnt right.

14.2V Charging of Ca/Ca batteries in a warm / hot engine bay environment would just about just about perfect.

........................

The 'smart' dual battery isolator separating my Aux and Cranking batteries is the Piranha DBE-140. Somehow it isolates the two batteries and does not allow current to flow back from the Aux battery to the Cranking battery. I have tested this by disconnecting the ground cable from the Cranking battery and they trying to turn on the headlights on the car. The dual battery isolator immediately switches off and the headlights go out.

The isolator allows charge to flow through to the Aux battery when the system voltage rises above 13.2Volts and it disconnects the batteries when the system voltage falls below 12.8Volts.

http://www.dnaoffroad.com.au/dbe140-dual-battery-management-system.html

For what its worth, the Aux battery started failing approx 3-4months before the Cranking battery has started failing.

.......................

In the passed i have tested the car with just the one cranking battery connected, the ammeter still flickered.

The Axillary battery has been replaced with the 125Ah Fullriver AGM battery. This battery has been working faultlessly since it was fitted a couple of months ago.

The Cranking battery will be replaced tomorrow. I will try disconnecting the Aux battery once again and try running the car with just the one, brand new Cranking battery and see how the Ammeter behaves.

Travis.
 
Hey guys,

Well today i replaced the cranking battery in the old girl.

While the old one was out, i took the opportunity to go over the grounds off the battery.

I replaced a couple of the leads just to be sure, one 2GA from the battery terminal to the engine block. One 2GA from the battery terminal to the body and one 4GA from the starter motor to the chassis.

I replaced the starter motor cable from the battery, with a new 2GA cable.

I also completely disconnected the Axillary battery and the isolator.

Then i installed the new battery and connected only the starter motor power cable and the B+ from the alternator. (So the winch, spotlights, UHF and dual battery isolator wires were all left off).

Then i fired the old girl up. (WOW what a difference a new battery makes!). Other then the joy of hearing the starter motor raw to life, the bloody ammeter went about its usual thing, flickering back and forth................

I am officially completely lost for answers or a direction to head from here.

..................

The 'problem' occurs when i pull every fuse from the fuse panel except for the 'engine' fuse and with nothing else connected to the battery except for the starter and B+ alternator wire.

So, im assuming this means i can safely rule out an issue on any other circuit in the vehicles wiring. Lights, indicators, wipers etc... And now as ive tested today i can say with 100% certainty the Winch, UHF, Spotlights and Dual battery system have no effect either.

If i am to start again guys, please give me a hand and step by step i will go over it all once again... And ill do videos of each test.

Ive added another video from after fitting the new battery, it should be uploaded in 10-20minutes.

Video Done; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSFWyNvqh88&feature=youtu.be

Travis.
 
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Hi Travis,

Let's go over the circuits that are left with the diagram in hand.
1. From alternator B goes White/Blue to AMmeter. Just before the Ammeter is a splice (behind the dash) one White/Blue goes to the AMmeter, from the Ammeter it's a White wire to the Fusible Link to the battery.
2. The other White/Blue from that splice goes to the IGN key switch. From the IGN key switch it continues as 2 Black/Yellows to under the hood.
3. One Black/Yellow (from the switch) goes directly (no fuse) to the Coil and Igniter.
4. The other Black/Yellow (from the switch) goes to the fuse box for the engine fuse. From the engine fuse the color is Red/Yellow and goes to the Fuel Cut Solenoid and to the emission stuff.

Q. Does any of your meters have the possibility to measure 10Amp DC? I hope your Analog meter has that option.

If yes, you can disconnect a component or a wire, hook up the meter in series and see what the reading is.
I would start with the Black/Yellow from the IGN Key Switch.
The problem with this kind of problems is that it's a series circuit so it can be anywhere along the line, it can be the wire to the switch, the switch, the wire from the switch, the wire to the coil, etcetera.

It's a matter of elimination. Another option is to take a few feet of wire and just bypass a piece of circuit.
Example; wire from the Battery + post direct to the Coil or Igniter. That way you eliminate the wiring and the switch.

Rudi

EDIT: In your video I see a AMM which reads almost 15V with a slight variation. Correct?
Next is your Fluke in de DC amps position with rolling numbers between -1.83 and +2.58. Correct?
The Ammeter in the dash is very hard to see. Can you make a better recording? I like to see the sweep and the frequency.
Thanks.
 
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Hi Rudi, thanks for the reply. Ill get back to your other points tomorrow hopefully but i did manage to run out and take some better videos for you to check out.

..............................

Video 1 = Cold Start, engine running no other loads. (Batteries at 100% charge prior to start.

Educated guess, the output current from the alternator would have been around the 0-3Amps at the battery had i put the clamp meter there.

DMM = Source voltage at / for the Voltage Regulator.

AMM = Field voltage from the Voltage Regulator. (The reading in this video is flickering between 5-6Volts)

Clamp Meter = Battery terminal voltage.



Video 2 = Directly following video 1, the vehicles headlights were turned on + the 2x 100W spotlights. (Near maximum output from the alternator (educated guess, approx 40Amps) Only the load from the 2x 100W spotlights is run through the ammeter. Engine load and the vehicles standard lighting is all supplied before the ammeter.

Educated guess, the output current from the alternator would have been around the 20Amps (and quite stable) at the battery had i put the clamp meter there.


DMM = Source voltage at / for the Voltage Regulator.

AMM = Field voltage from the Voltage Regulator. (The reading in this video is quite stable and reads approx 12.9Volts)

Clamp Meter = Battery terminal voltage.



Video 3 = Directly following video 2, all lights are switch off again.

Educated guess, the output current from the alternator would have been around the 0-10Amps (flickering rapidly between) at the battery had i put the clamp meter there.

DMM = Source voltage at / for the Voltage Regulator.

AMM = Field voltage from the Voltage Regulator. (The reading in this video is flicking between 7-8Volts)

Clamp Meter = Battery terminal voltage.



Travis.
 
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Hi Travis,

Let's do a test. Elimination of the VR.
Disconnect the VR.
Insert a jumper between the IGN and F terminal.
Hook up a Voltmeter so you can watch the voltage
Start engine. Don't rev up too much, because you don't have the VR.
Maybe pull the throttle a bit but keep the voltage below 15V.
See what the AMmeter reads.
If the problem is still there do this test.
Elimination of whole charge circuit.
Hook up a wire from the B lug on the alternator to the F terminal on the alternator. Again..... keep your rpm's (and thus the voltage) down.

Don't be surprised if the VR is the culprit.

Rudi
 
Interesting thread, I'll tell you how I've solved my charging issues. My '81 FJ 45 had a mongrel Bosch alternator shoehorned onto it using a custom bracket, the alternator pulley was half an inch out from lining up with the harmonic balancer. So what to do? The standard system leaves a bit to be desired in my view, external regulators are soooo 1970s - plus a 55A alternator just isn't enough in my opinion.:p

Quite a few people here in Australia have adapted their old Toyotas to internally regulated alternators, quite a few get a Bosch 85A unit from EA/EB Ford Falcons, a good mod but it requires mods to the alternator bracket and a different size drive belt. I like to keep as many standard parts as possible so I ruled this out.

The way I went was to buy an internally regulated alternator for the later model FJ 75/FJ 62, this is a 70A unit with internal reg. It bolted straight onto my motor and only minor wiring mods were needed. I removed the original external VR and threw it over the shoulder.:D The new alt requires 3 wires, ignition, voltage sense and charge light, the Australian spec FJ 45 has battery voltage and ignition wires in the VR plug on the firewall, I extended these out to the alt. The charge light involved splicing a wire between the brake warning light on the dash and bulb check relay, I ran this wire to the charge light terminal on the alt. In case you're wondering, Australian spec 40s never had a charge light standard, hence using the brake warning light - in other markets some 40s had the charge light combined with the brake warning light from the factory.

Only other thing I have done is run a cable between the B+ and battery post to lessen the strain on the original wiring. Hope this helps someone.:popcorn:
 
Hey Herbs, thanks for the reply. One day i dare say i will replace the alternator with a modern internal VR etc... and much higher output, but i would rewire the whole thing while doing so. The thought of putting more then 30-40Amps through the factory B+ wiring running through the firewall etc. worries me.

Are you still using your factory ammeter?

Rudi, sorry for the delay. I havent really had any spare time to look at the landcruiser since my last post. Bub's is a little handful :)

I have managed between a few feed of the bub to progress on my canopy. I have the landcruiser book in at the start of June to get the Canvas work done... Will be good to see that 2 year project ticked off!!

Travis.
 
The post 1980 ammeter is useless, I'm going to install an aftermarket voltmeter instead.
 
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