Carburator / Manifold / Head Removal (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter lcolon
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lcolon
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It looks like more above that , to the left in the pic. Could be casting porosity?
Im a newbie at all this liquid cooled stuff, but id run it.
Ive just pulled the head off mine looking for a leak, though it did not run hot at all, actually ran real cool. I found the thermostat had been removed.
Is your thermo installed correctly. I can't see in the FSM if there is a right or wrong position.
Im a newbie at all this liquid cooled stuff, but id run it.
Ive just pulled the head off mine looking for a leak, though it did not run hot at all, actually ran real cool. I found the thermostat had been removed.
Is your thermo installed correctly. I can't see in the FSM if there is a right or wrong position.
lcolon
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- Thread starter
- #25
Yes the thermostat is there. I am going to run the truck as-is but I do think the block will need some attention if/when I have to pull the head off again. Got everything machined and the manifolds bolted back up today. Should have it all put back together tomorrow for a test run. I have my fingers crossed.
Oh man! Huge undertaking doing this all over again. At least it goes quick the second and third time around.
I am in a very similar boat (i think). I recently did all the same work as this. I put it all back together with fresh new parts and a decked head, etc... I'm now chasing a running warm issue which sounds eerily familiar to your scenario. I took my brand new CSF2708 to Panky's in Hayward to see if that was the issue. I had it pressure/flow tested... Checked out fine. I replaced the brand new oil cooler 5/8's hose cause it looked like the new one was swelling for some reason.
Same as you... Runs cool at idle. Mine even runs mostly normal on the freeway but if I start heading up a serious grade the truck starts running warm. I have yet to full on "overheat"... Maybe this is normal... The last two times I've run up 80 towards Tahoe I start getting into the top section of the gauge right at the INNOUT Burger in Auburn. When I hit the Shell Gas station a few miles further on Lincoln Road I'm just below the red. Exact same scenario both times I last did the run. I haven't had the chance to run that route since I took the rad out and had it tested but last week Wednesday it was pretty hot out and I ran to Petaluma and back and I noticed I was starting to run warm up grade, started into the 3/4 area of the gauge. I turned the front and rear heat on which leveled it off.
I borrowed my neighbors coolant pressure tester this weekend to see if I have any obvious leaks. We'll see what results that kicks out if any...
Sorry I don't have much to offer here. Just sharing my pain with you.
I have to run to Stockton next week to see Georg, We'll see how she does on that rip.
joe
I am in a very similar boat (i think). I recently did all the same work as this. I put it all back together with fresh new parts and a decked head, etc... I'm now chasing a running warm issue which sounds eerily familiar to your scenario. I took my brand new CSF2708 to Panky's in Hayward to see if that was the issue. I had it pressure/flow tested... Checked out fine. I replaced the brand new oil cooler 5/8's hose cause it looked like the new one was swelling for some reason.
Same as you... Runs cool at idle. Mine even runs mostly normal on the freeway but if I start heading up a serious grade the truck starts running warm. I have yet to full on "overheat"... Maybe this is normal... The last two times I've run up 80 towards Tahoe I start getting into the top section of the gauge right at the INNOUT Burger in Auburn. When I hit the Shell Gas station a few miles further on Lincoln Road I'm just below the red. Exact same scenario both times I last did the run. I haven't had the chance to run that route since I took the rad out and had it tested but last week Wednesday it was pretty hot out and I ran to Petaluma and back and I noticed I was starting to run warm up grade, started into the 3/4 area of the gauge. I turned the front and rear heat on which leveled it off.
I borrowed my neighbors coolant pressure tester this weekend to see if I have any obvious leaks. We'll see what results that kicks out if any...
Sorry I don't have much to offer here. Just sharing my pain with you.
I have to run to Stockton next week to see Georg, We'll see how she does on that rip.
joe
lcolon
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #27
Thank you. My overheating has been more severe. Since you are local you will be able to appreciate this - get on 580E in San Leandro, by the time I hit Eden Canyon road - truck was at 220o. I got the head back (#1 was burning and leaking slightly, #3 leaking) repaired, and just got it all back together (will post that update next). Was chasing a poor running state that is now resolved by replacing the fuel cut solenoid in the carb with an aftermarket one I got from City Racer. Weird because the factory solenoid still "clicked" but the truck would not run at idle. In any case I need to extend the wiring harness to accomodate the aftermarket solenoid, finish burping it, and take it for a shakedown run.
As for the radiator, I removed the brass unit and put a champion aluminum one back in. I have not flow tested the brass one but aluminum cools so much better. I am looking for every edge.
I have my fingers crossed. Will update on the final situation likely tomorrow due to the showers this afternoon. Georg is a good guy and certainly helps me alot.
The 2 things I hate about this job surround - removing the manifold to begin with, and second getting the %#@#$ exhaust and J pipe reconnected. Seems that I always fight with it forever before it is all lined up to be bolted down. The rest is academic.
lcolon
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- Thread starter
- #28
The factory gauge tells you basically nothing. I finally put this adapter into my upper radiator hose and connected it to a mechanical temp gauge. I screwed around with a bunch of adapters and ran the mechanical in the block, but the way they are designed and the length of pipe you need to add to make it work causes these gauges to be susceptible to air bubbles. Link below to the adapter for the hose:
Steiger Performance Inline Radiator Hose Temperature Sensor Adapter for 1.5 inch (38mm) hose, 3/8 NPT
DFXR
SILVER Star
The J pipe has taunted me too... I was convinced mine was leaking up top AFTER replacing my manifolds so I replaced that little gasket 3 times in 3 months. It turned out to be the air rail that was leaking, all the way in back. Whoops!
Here is the picture of the rocker stud I PM'd you about. All 4 are in great shape.
lcolon
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- Thread starter
- #32
I got my truck reassembled and running finally. Here is some additional info that may be helpful:
-- Rigging for the head. As you can see the chain is attached to the two center head studs and held in place with the valve cover bolts (these studs in the pic are the ones that are too long)
-- The head is "staged" on a piece of plywood across the front fan shroud and cowl. A 2x4 is slipped through the chain loop and the head placed on the block. Key point - don't use a 2x4 previously used to screed concrete! Luckily my buddy noticed that a small rock had come off of it and landed in the head. Bad things could have happened.
-- A shot of the OEM head gasket before the head goes on. It is easy to put this gasket on backwards so pay attention to orientation
Unfortunately discovered later, the studs that the rocker arm assembly sits on are too long. I could not use the factory bolts to lock down the valve cover. Once I receive the correct studs, then I will change it over to the normal setup. Probably leaks some vacuum and maybe oil with it hooked up this way. Good enough for a test run of the rig.
-- Rigging for the head. As you can see the chain is attached to the two center head studs and held in place with the valve cover bolts (these studs in the pic are the ones that are too long)
-- The head is "staged" on a piece of plywood across the front fan shroud and cowl. A 2x4 is slipped through the chain loop and the head placed on the block. Key point - don't use a 2x4 previously used to screed concrete! Luckily my buddy noticed that a small rock had come off of it and landed in the head. Bad things could have happened.
-- A shot of the OEM head gasket before the head goes on. It is easy to put this gasket on backwards so pay attention to orientation
Unfortunately discovered later, the studs that the rocker arm assembly sits on are too long. I could not use the factory bolts to lock down the valve cover. Once I receive the correct studs, then I will change it over to the normal setup. Probably leaks some vacuum and maybe oil with it hooked up this way. Good enough for a test run of the rig.
lcolon
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #33
Getting the J-Pipe connected for me is the worst part of reassembly. I have finally settled on completely unbolting the EGR cooler from the block, getting the j-pipe connected underneath, then bolting the cooler back up. This can be done once the manifold is torqued down or before... job still sucks. I went with a remflex gasket this time instead of OEM.
Once everything was put back together I did run into a further no-idle situation. I initially thought it was the fuel cut solenoid but now I am convinced it is a sticking EGR valve. Pulling some vacuum on the EGR port and exercising the valve seems to have made things go away. I am thinking of pulling it and cleaning it out.
The other bit of good news is that between the head, manifold, and now aluminum instead of brass radiator, my temps are running at a perfect 190oF. I hope this saga is finally near the end.
Only 17" of Vacuum at idle... probably still need another valve adjustment but I am going to wait until I install the new studs which will require resetting the lash anyway. I sprayed around with carb cleaner and could not find any leaks. Hopefully the truck is good for another 100k+ before I end up doing this type of tear down again. I think the next time will be a full rebuild of the motor.
Once everything was put back together I did run into a further no-idle situation. I initially thought it was the fuel cut solenoid but now I am convinced it is a sticking EGR valve. Pulling some vacuum on the EGR port and exercising the valve seems to have made things go away. I am thinking of pulling it and cleaning it out.
The other bit of good news is that between the head, manifold, and now aluminum instead of brass radiator, my temps are running at a perfect 190oF. I hope this saga is finally near the end.
Only 17" of Vacuum at idle... probably still need another valve adjustment but I am going to wait until I install the new studs which will require resetting the lash anyway. I sprayed around with carb cleaner and could not find any leaks. Hopefully the truck is good for another 100k+ before I end up doing this type of tear down again. I think the next time will be a full rebuild of the motor.
lcolon
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- Thread starter
- #34
Well this just made it all worth it. I bought myself 2 more years on the emissions front. I setup the carb using the A/F meter to run in the high 13s low 14s at idle. A little lean but the numbers don't lie. I did end up going to 4 different stations. The first station, the guy could not really drive stick and failed to keep it in the RPM range on the dyno. He told me I had carb problems (I obviously disputed that). At least he did not charge me. 2 other stations had broken dynos, and the last station where it finally got tested suffered a bee swarm in the middle of the test. You can't make this stuff up.
Those shops that told you dyno is broken were lying. They get dinged for passing too many pre-obd vehicles so they lie those customers away.
Glad you passed smog, but your O2 numbers are low so before next test I'd check out the Air Injection system, possibly the check valves, too.
Cheers.
Glad you passed smog, but your O2 numbers are low so before next test I'd check out the Air Injection system, possibly the check valves, too.
Cheers.
lcolon
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- #37
Thank you Spike strip. That is crazy about shops getting dinged for passing pre-odb vehicles. If people spend the time to get things right, we should be rewarded.
Interestingly, I did make sure that the AI system was not "bypassed" ie. blowing into the air cleaner instead of blowing toward the cat. I have had that throw off my numbers in the past. Last time (2 yrs ago) I did do the full FSM test on the AI system and everything checked out. Maybe my smog pump has some broken vanes and is getting weak. In any case I will worry about it the next go around. I am having a problem with a periodically sticky EGR so I am not sure if that contributes to the issue or not.
fjc-man
SILVER Star
You could send your air pump to B-Z Rebuilders in Canoga Park and get it rebuilt for like 200 bucks. Give them a call at 818 703 0821 before yours grenades and leaves you stranded. Nothing like hearing the belt screaming, then the smell of burning rubber and the need to pull over before it overheats... been there, done that. Quick turn around time too.
lcolon
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- Thread starter
- #39
Thank you for the suggestion. I might try to find a used pump to send down there in the mean time so I have a good rebuilt "trail spare" in case that happens. I put in a rebuilt one a number of years ago that I got from Mudrak. I can't remember how long ago it was. The last time it was due to bearing noise. I will have to look at the FSM again and see if there is some kind of pressure rating for the output so I can determine where I am on the scale.
Big applause for your write up with pictures. I just have one, no....two things to contribute. I run a de smuggled 2F in my pickup, and blew the head gasket in 2017 right behind the thermostat housing....Anyone who has ridden with me on the 880 or 580 knows I am at full throttle just about all the time with my ‘72 carb. Anyway, I previously had two (2) aluminum Champion radiators crack at the same spot, just below the top tank on the driver side. Yes, I have a refinished rad support with bushings. Eventually I paid up, and got a fantastic brass radiator from @65swb45 and remain a believer in brass. Secondly, I notice my 2F does better to be driven with the heater valve slightly open to avoid a hot spot at the #5 cylinder top; valve clattering stops and improved combustion can be heard. Hope to see you on the road, or off after the 2nd or third mutation of Covid19 is over. Cheers bruddah
