BJ Starter (1 Viewer)

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Gentlemen:

I am new to Toyotas, and I sure could use some help. I purchased a 1977, Land Cruiser, 12 Volt from Honduras, and I need a starter (The original unit is "toast"). The car came fitted with a direct drive starter, and I am looking for a replacement unit, but here in Los Angeles, CA, it is like looking for the white horn of the black rhino.
1. Is there a starter for another Toyota vehicle that will fit/work?
2. Where can one find a replacement?

Yes, I am unenlightened in the area of Toyota diesels.

Walt Banta
 
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Define "toast."

Can you have it rebuilt? Starters aren't all that complicated of things, and the Denso starters used by Toyota will have common parts. The parts that are not common are the housings and stuff--the stuff that doesn't wear out.

You can replace the starter motor itself with one from other models, but I don't know of a starter that is common to both the B and something else. There is also a difference between B series engines with iron or aluminum bellhousings. So, if yours matches your engine/transmission combo, then getting it rebuilt is the easiest thing to do by far.

We can get them rebuilt in Albuquerque in a day or two, for less than $100. I'm sure in California there's someplace similar. (we had our 3B starter rebuilt just two months ago--dropped it off mid morning, picked it up before dinner)

Dan
 
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"Toast" is a relative term - do you know what exactly is wrong with it?

As Dan says you can get virtually anything rebuilt. However the most common type of 3B starter failure is just with the contacts in the solenoid - thats something you can (and should) repair yourself with a $10 contact kit. Its something virtually every 3B owner seems to do eventually, takes only 15 minutes.
 
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"Toast" is a relative term - do you know what exactly is wrong with it?

As Dan says you can get virtually anything rebuilt. However the most common type of 3B starter failure is just with the contacts in the solenoid - thats something you can (and should) repair yourself with a $10 contact kit. Its something virtually every 3B owner seems to do eventually, takes only 15 minutes.

Amaurer

Whats your best source for a contact kit?

Tony
 
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Amaurer

Whats your best source for a contact kit?

Tony

There are two items, the 2 contacts and the plunger - all of them have Denso crosses which are easy to get in the states.

For the plunger, Denso 053660-0660 is your ticket, was $7.58 at densoproducts.com.

For the contacts I've never bought them from a Denso cross, but I have a high confidence that they're 053513-0261, which are a little over a buck.

(Thread from my own starter meltdown, only needed a new plunger: https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/388103-need-3b-starter-plunger-p-n.html)
 
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Also, to the OP, if your starter is pooched beyond the solenoid (basically that leaves the motor) then you can buy a new motor by purchasing a Toyota starter for another vehicle and swapping the nose cones. Search the Diesel forum for "nose cone swap" for the details and p/ns.
 
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Gentlemen:

I am new to Toyotas, and I sure could use some help. I purchased a 1977, Land Cruiser, 12 Volt from Honduras, and I need a starter (The original unit is "toast"). The car came fitted with a direct drive starter, and I am looking for a replacement unit, but here in Los Angeles, CA, it is like looking for the white horn of the black rhino.
1. Is there a starter for another Toyota vehicle that will fit/work?
2. Where can one find a replacement?

Yes, I am unenlightened in the area of Toyota diesels.

Walt Banta

By "direct drive" I assume you mean that it isn't the gear-reduction type Walt.

I think the part number for the 12V version of this starter is 28100-56020 (subs 28100-56021) and I believe it is only 1.8kW (compared to the 2.5kW gear-reduction starter on my later-model BJ40).


This thread confirms they are hard to get:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/438470-starter-problems.html
(Does yours look the same as the one in post # 27 Walt?)

I tried looking in the Toyota EPC to identify exactly which other models (other than BJ40 cruisers) got these starters ... but no luck so far. (A B-engined Dyna of around the same vintage may be a possibility ... but I can't find the evidence.)

:cheers:
 
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By "direct drive" I assume you mean that it isn't the gear-reduction type (so it doesn't have the solenoid to lever the drive-cog out to mesh with the flywheel ring-gear) Walt.

All starters engage the flywheel with a retractable gear (or the VAST majority, anyway). Direct drive means that gear is driven directly by the motor. In GR starters there is an additional gearbox in the starter itself between the motor and the starter gear. However that has no bearing on whether the gear pops out or not - Tom you should find that your B-series direct drive starter still has a solenoid that pops the drive gear out.

[strike]There is no gear reduction starter for the 3B.[/strike] All 3B starter are GR.

The power difference is simply a difference in spec between 12V and 24V 3B's - 12V starters are 2.5kW, 24V starters are 4.5kW. Similar for the B direct drive starters the 12V starters were 1.8kW and the 24V were 3.5kW (some B's got the GR starter with the same specs as the 3B, above, however). I'm sure Toyota would have used the higher power level even on 12V trucks, however this is a limitation of the amperage capacity of the 12V batteries and the wiring harness - 24V trucks can deliver more electrical power with less current.
 
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All starters engage the flywheel with a retractable gear (or the VAST majority, anyway). Direct drive means that gear is driven directly by the motor. In GR starters there is an additional gearbox in the starter itself between the motor and the starter gear.

There is no gear reduction starter for the 3B.

Yeah. I stuffed up the bit about "no solenoid" so I've deleted that now Drew.

Must be a day for errors though, because your last statement is untrue. (So there ;p)

All 3B starters are "gear reduction" (to produce more torque).

The drive cog (that engages with the ring-gear) spins slower than the stator errrrrrr I mean ROTOR.

And here's a picture to prove it:
GearReduction.jpg


:beer:

And I captured your error before you crossed it out LOL!. (And you captured my error while I was still working on my correction!!!!)
GearReduction.jpg
 
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Hahaha, dueling edits! so should we agree to mutually erase any evidence of less-than-total omnipotence on our part? :D
 
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Getting my starter completely rebuilt @ a local jobber shop. I took it apart and noticed it needed bearings brushes and there was excessive play in the housing on the front bearing. Took it to the shop to get the bearings pressed on for $60, and they were like "for $50 more you can have a rebuilt one with one year warranty"... Includes new brushes bearings housing and stator.. Sometimes it's cheaper to get someone else to do the job. Even though I was stoked to do it myself... Too bad.. :(
 
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Moneypit-

Thank you for the tip. I located the information you previously posted, and I suspect that this might be my best bet. Where did you get the 3b starter? Is it a common item/part number? I suspect I can get the Kubota gear locally (fingers crossed), but the starter could be the problem.

Walt Banta
 
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Lost Marbles:

Thank you for your response. I'm an old fellow, and I cannot find the post number your referenced for a photo/exploded diagram. My starter "is not" a gear reduction model. I see that another fellow successfully used a 3b diesel starter (gear reduction) by fitting a Kubota Tractor drive gear. I am wondering if this might not be a good alternative for me also.
Question(s): Is the 3b starter easier to find/repair? Secondly, will my local rebuilder have access to the Kubota drive gear the other fellow references?
Walt Banta
 
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Lostmarbles:
With a bit of patience, I believe I did find the photo you referenced (i.e. - fellow in Finland?). In a word, "No," my starter is different from the one in the photo, I believe.

Walt Banta
 
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Lost Marbles:
.......I cannot find the post number your referenced for a photo/exploded diagram. My starter "is not" a gear reduction model. I see that another fellow successfully used a 3b diesel starter (gear reduction) by fitting a Kubota Tractor drive gear. I am wondering if this might not be a good alternative for me also.
Question(s): Is the 3b starter easier to find/repair? Secondly, will my local rebuilder have access to the Kubota drive gear the other fellow references?
Walt Banta

Lostmarbles:
With a bit of patience, I believe I did find the photo you referenced (i.e. - fellow in Finland?). In a word, "No," my starter is different from the one in the photo, I believe.

Walt Banta

This is the photo of the starter I thought you might have there Walt:
OldBStarter.jpg

And I do like Moneypit's idea of using a 3B starter with a smaller driver gear because I believe those starters, although not plentiful, are more easily found than the direct-drive B starters. And they share the same drive-motor and solenoid with quite a few other starters (as used on some prado and hilux models for instance).So it is possible to do the "nose cone swap" that Amaurer talked about. (The nose of these 3B starters is quite rugged and so it is usually the motor/solenoid that fail first. And gear-reduction starters as a whole are much more powerful and reliable than what you've got.)

:beer:

And the
OldBStarter.jpg
 
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That is the starter that was in my old B engine cruiser, The gear setup that will interchange from the kubota tractor starter number should be listed,just go to a starter rebuilding shop and give the number to them, they should be able to get it for you. The starter I used was from dixe. The supplier I used is gone his building burnt down.
 

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