ATEB complaint rebuttal

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sailor

sailor

Jackass of all trades
10 Year 15 Year
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I am disgusted by the cavalier and slanderous attitude displayed by specific participants on this forum regarding the recent post regarding ATEB in Burnaby. Where is the higher standard I would expect of a club I consider it a pleasure to belong to?

LanceCruiser and Myself were certain that there were significant facts omitted in the previous post so he had a meeting with John and Philip to determine what their side of the story might reveal. There will be a point by point rebuttal to follow, addressing the statements made by Mssrs. Abitibi and TLC81 that may suggest that the whole tale wasn't presented by our members, and that Ateb acted in good faith and with integrity- two qualities that I have come to rely on from them every time I visit their shop. Qualities demonstrated over a three year relationship that has seen well over $15,000.00 change hands with great satisfaction on my part.

I will include here a facsimile of the Motor Vehicle Branch Document directing licensed inspection facilities such as ATEB to install the Neutral Safety switch to Mr. Abitibi's vehicle. This is the first point in Mr. Abitibi's complaint post where he alludes to the idea that Ateb was trying to fleece him with this 'not required' service and further wonders how many other 5 speed vehicle owners were cheated previously. Considering the attached document, interestingly, the only piece of incontrovertible evidence presented in this whole affair, I ask Mr. Abitibi to reconsider his slanderous comments relating to this issue.

I am quite appalled by the willingness of other members to leap on the bandwagon as it were without pausing to consider the complete picture. Sorry Canucksafari, but I am specifically referring to you, despite the fact that I find a lot to respect in your various (and very extensive) internet activities in the RHD arena. You admit that you have never completed a business transaction at ATEB yet you are qualified to pass arbitrary judgement upon them? I suggest you realize that no business at any time is obligated to trade with you if they don't want to, particularly if you intend to take their product to their competitor.

A little about me: My experience is as follows. 18 years owning a business that maintains and repairs boats and larger vessels for private and institutional clients. On a daily basis I put my hands and tools on various diesel engines and generators among other things, that are very valuable and I take responsibility for everything I do. Just one of the 3412 E Caterpillar prime movers on one of the boats I am responsible for is possibly worth more than all of the trucks in the Coastal Cruisers' fleet combined.

The internet is a powerful propaganda tool. As a business owner, I am frustrated how individuals who may have just enough knowledge to be dangerous, apprenticed in long evenings rooted in front of the computer screen , can cast dispersions the hard won reputations of real world establishments such as ATEB, or my own business.. If I am wrong, so be it, I apologize now and fully.

As previously stated, there will be more to follow.
2010-10-13-1301-19-1.webp
 
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Brief comments from a non-member...

Firstly, unfortunately, it is impossible to please everyone...and no matter how hard a business tries, there are usually a few disgruntled customers. I totally understand the way you feel...and your sympathy for ATEB.

Secondly...the way I read that letter, is that those items listed are examples of things that may have been required in certain vehicles that passed inspection despite those required parts not being installed. It's not a list of all the things all JDM vehicles are required to have in order to pass inspection (i.e. catalytic converters for early diesels and high stop mount brake lights). It's been a long time since I imported my BJ74, but when I went through my inspection, it didn't require a neutral switch either. The reason that I was given, if I remember correctly, was because it wasn't a requirement at the time of the manufacture of my vehicle (1988). So...if it was a requirement by the time his Safari was manufactured, then you would be right.
 
I don't think one has to complete a business transaction to hold an opinion of the way a business operates. Personally, I couldn't give a damn what they do; but don't advertise you sell parts and refuse to sell them once you find out that someone else is installing them. IMO, that is misleading at the best and dishonest at the worst. They knew very well that it was an ICBC case. There was no way my vehicle was going to be towed from Abbotsford to Burnaby by ICBC or by me. Oh, and they knew the work was being done by a local auto body repair shop - not a JDM shop. In another instance, they had filter stock sold to them by Abbotsford Nissan for resale. I was directed by Abbotsford Nissan to get my filters from them while they waited for a new shipment. Again, they refused to sell the filters as they needed it for themselves. That's fine, but don't advertise that you are selling filters if you are keeping it for yourself. The third incident was a quote for getting the bearings repacked. It was over $400 for a job that I now do myself in about 30 min a side. That left me the impression they were a bit expensive. They have every right to set their rates as they see fit. I as a consumer have every right to say they are over priced. Lastly, unlike other Cruiser businesses, I have not witness them give anything back to the club or to this forum. So, who do you think I would recommend on IH8MUD, a business that I don't hold a very good opinion of or the businesses who participates here and helps out the local Cruiser club?
 
this hit your sweet spot...

Thank you for the information, you are free to your comments and sentiments as much as the next cat.
Fulfilling the motor vehicle inspection requirements doesnt change the fact that many of us have had ill experiences at ATEB, so your comments only go so far.
Hearing other members previous experience provides the rest of us information that we need to interpret and make a calculated desicion on who we will go to, but its better to speak than keep quiet.

Your reflections on your boat engine and cost of your boat is a bit rediculous:rolleyes:. Care to recant that comment?

leave your boat chat to the yachting section....
 
Never had an issue with ATEB. Since they usually have most new parts and a bunch of uses ones for JDM in stock they are a good one-stop-shop.
 
My dad didn't have a good experence with them years ago but in my limited experience though other members I havent had a problem... but like others have said no buisness can please everybody!

Cheers
 
OK Here we go again.. A lot of effort is being expended by Lance to get to the bottom of this issue in a hopefully non emotional manner.

Canucksafari, I have something for you that parallels my first ever Ateb experience- Consider this if you will, sorry it is a long one but please try to bear with me.

Before my HDJ arrived in Dec. '08, I went to see Steve at EBI about doing the usual stuff you should do when you get a new to you 1991 RHD Land Cruiser. I had a nice chat but he was too busy to accomodate me within the time frame I had in mind. My brother in law mentioned Ateb because he had seen a bunch of RHDs there so I went over to the shop to see if I could make an appointment. I met Mr. Ken Tang there who made an appointment and gave me an estimate for the services that I required, amounting to some $1,700.00 or so. I approved this and when my truck arrived, I delivered it directly to the shop and work began right away, much to my satisfaction. At this point I was introduced to John and Philip the two mechanic/owners of the business. I was quite pleased with my initial impressions and felt at ease that I had made a good move selecting ATEB. The next day I got a call from Ken Tang stating that there were safety issues with the truck that would increase my invoice to $3,500 or so, about double the amount I approved! Well, truthfully, I was concerned that I was being ripped off so I asked him to stop work until I could get there and see for myself, being the cheap bastard that I am. When I got there, Philip took 3 full hours to explain and demonstrate to me the difficiencies that existed on my 'New' truck. Brakes under thickness (showed me the micrometer on the rotors, leaky calipers- obvious, sloppy king pins- saw them shaking, knuckle seals, bearings and on and on. I couldn't argue and agreed to the additional costs. The truck was ready on the day they promised, they took another 3 full hours to demonstrate the entire vehicle ( I had no manual, not that I read Japanese anyway!) as we walked around the truck, parts materialized and were installed on the truck at no charge to me like a rear gate handle that I was missing, side reflectors that the inspectors (total BS artists) didn't apply, a spare Toyota oil and fuel filter, no charge at all. I was happy and patted myself on the back with choosing Ateb. John and Philip went home at this point leaving me to settle up with Ken Tang, my new buddy.

Ken informed me that I would have to pay cash as the amount was more than he would accept for a personal cheque, since I was a new customer. I had lost my Visa and their debit machine was out of order. Like a fool I went to the bank and withdrew the cash and paid him, getting an invoice in return. My truck ran perfectly! and I decided to return for some more services but my friend Ken was no longer there- he had left suddenly with no notice, so I met Helen, wife of John, one of the mechanics who told me that Ken had been routinely pocketing tens of thousands of dollars from the company! HE had left and couldnt be found, his brother Dan, another ATEB employee, had been arrested in Australia on Drug trafficking charges! This is why Atebs web site was stagnant for so long with parts availability- I remember meeting Helen for the first time quite vividly because she was actually moved to tears as she explained to me what had happened. They had given Ken and Dan their full trust and quite an oppertunity to manage the company while John and Philip worked on the vehicles in the back. Hard to forget an experience like that. Only Dan had the code to access the web site and make changes. That web site was very expensive and paid for with company money, despite repeated attempts to reason with the designer, Ateb couldn't get control, because of the thefts, there was no spare cash to buy a new site and have it designed.
It took John and Philip, with help from Helen working heroic hours to recover from the financial disaster the ongoing thefts had caused.

To sum up John, when you went in there and inquired about the overpriced bearing service, I understand you dealt with Ken Tang. I apologize for this long read but it helps me to understand why you would have been treated incorrectly, considering you were dealing with a criminal employee. At this point John and philip didn't get too involved in the estimating as they were too busy in the shop, and that was Ken and Dan's job, anyway. I only learned this fact recently from Philip via Lance.

The $3500.00 invoice I paid cash for, which I have in my records if anyone wishes to see it, was actually printed as an estimate, so it wouldnt appear on the monthly financials at Ateb. This was a bother for me as I couldn't expense the repairs on my truck against my business. Ateb made it into a proper invoice for me so I could apply it to income.

Ken and Dan Tang dissappeared around the first quarter( I think) of '09, with a huge amount of cash and all the access to control Atebs marketing.

Might help to shed light on your own experience? Lance should have more info on the core issues of this thread....
 
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Ken or Dan is now imprisoned in Australia, sorry, cant remember which.

Lance has some interesting information to add about the Hose issue raised by Mr. TLC81 and some further tid bits about why Ateb wouldn't sell Safari parts to Canucksafari. Patience please.
 
dunno but if so, that is stunning. Name and age are about right. Date of the article is Nov.2009 so that would work as well I guess?
 
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Thank you for investigating this you guys. Who would've ever thought THAT was the the other side of the story! :beer:
 
Ultimatly there is more to come replying specifically to the complaints against Ateb. The aim is to show atebs side of things, the above is simply the back story. The guys at Ateb don't have time to defend themselves online and are rather retiring in nature. More inclined to turn the other cheek as it were. They would be more likely to refund someones money even when they are in the right than argue with that person. Of the many thousands of customer transactions they have handled there are only a very tiny percentage that have been contentious. I suspect that no shop in western Canada could even begin to approach Ateb in the sheer number of rhd or jdm Land cruiser style vehicles serviced on the last 7 years.
 
Well if you thought sailors post was long, I’m sorry in advance. I spoke with John at ATEB to see what transpired with Abitibi's, and everyone else that has an issue with them. I would have posted something sooner, but I had to refrain, I would have written something that wouldn’t have helped the situation. John, Phillip and Helen said I didn’t need to post anything, but appreciate it. They said it really doesn’t hurt them, they have a lot of customers that know them well.

This neutral switch that is required in that bulletin, is also on their government light vehicle inspection manual and checklist. They document and take pictures of everything that is required to do these inspections, and submit them online, and they can't go forward if that task is not completed. How are they suppose to bypass that? The guys are pretty thorough, when it comes to their work, and to turn a blind eye when something else states otherwise, they would be putting their name and licsense at risk. As an liscenced aircraft structural mechanic I'm held to the same responsability.

I had an experience that I can relate to with my Nissan 200SX 5spd. I had a lapse of judment one day, because I was going to be late for an appointment. I was parked in front of a ditch outside of my work. I realized I forgot something back at work, but decided I would start my car and let it warm up, while I go and get it what I left behind. Since I was distracted I didn't do the things I normally would do when I started my car, like have my foot on the clutch. Needless to say I was lucky enough to stop my car in time, before it would have caused some body damage. I ended up going back into work a little red faced and for a tow. So, I can see when they explained to Abitibi their reasoning for not wanting to take it off, and gave it to him (part and labour). They explained that if his kid were playing in front of the Safari, and a similar incedent like mine happened, they didn't want to take that chance. Abitibi came back the next day and wanted to pay for the part. They are fair enough people with lots of integrity, so when you found someone that supported you at MVB, they were good enough to give you the benefit of a doubt, and gave you your money back. Why did you feel you had to pay for the part, when you were off the hook? Not many places will do that, you might get some of your money back, but not all.

I had my bad experience on trying to go cheap on maintenace with this place in Surrey with my VW. I went there by recomondation from someone at work, and when I talked to the mechanic/owner he seemed very knowledgable about what had to be done, and sounded like he has done a few already. They F'up my car so bad, I had to go to the dealership to get them to replace everything they touched. They used a frikken saw for F' sakes to get my pulley/cam cover off in 4 peices???? I ended up getting them to pay the dealership for the mechanical work and missing parts, which I had to fight for. At the time I was working/living Montreal, so this was a huge PIA. It was too tiring to go after them for the body damage they did. They crushed the seam under the rocker, they somewhat repaired it, but not to it’s original condition. They also dented the bumper, it looks like they had a bucket under there, when they lowered my car. A $1300 VW dealership maintence bill I was trying to avoid, that they did for $800, it ended up costing me more than that.

The issue with Abitibi's fried relay and ECU. He was picking John’s brain for information weeks prior to binging it in. He was having problems with cold starts, and John gave him some ideas of things to look at, not much he could do about it when it wasn’t in front of him, and the problem was only happening when it’s cold. After 3 weeks, Abitibi gave up dealing with the other guy in Richmond and brought it to ATEB. When John looked under the hood, he found stereo wire rigged up to the glow plugs. John mentioned he should change those wires to something thicker guage, since glow plugs require alot of voltage. Abitibi said the other guy changed out some things with the fuel system, replaced some diodes, and some other stuff. When John did the tests on the relay he found no continuity, so that was fried. When he pulled the ECU, he found 1” solder lines on the motherboard, and realized that it had been fried once before and somebody tried to fix it. It made him wonder if someone put direct power to and fried it? He tried a couple of tests on the ECU and no continuity, so deemed it fried. He spent half the day going through the electricals, testing every wire for continuity, Abitibi was only charged for 2hrs. When Abitibi came to pick up his truck, John told him what he had found and showed him the parts, and this was in front of 2 other customers. John asked him what was being done to it before, that the relay and ECU would become fried. Abitibi had no answer for him. A week later Abitibi calls ATEB, stating the other guy in Richmond says there is nothing wrong with the ECU, but it was only the relay. He told John the ECU is fine, and I’m not happy with your work. John saw where this was going, because of the Safari issue. John simply stated, you can come by today and collect your money, we are giving you a full refund, just don’t call or bring your vehicles in for service ever again, we don’t need your kind of bussiness. My question is why did it take this guy in Richmond more than 3 weeks and not figure it out, and John half a day to find the problem. Did this guy in Richmond put another bandaid on the ECU to get it working, or replace it with a new one, saying that it was good all along, and trying to save face? My problem is that Abitibi is not giving credit where credit is due, and attacking their character and integrity, that I have seen first hand.

TLC81, I asked John about your issue too. I don’t know if it was you or someone else, he told me someone was looking for a upper rad hose for a 60. He told them he could order a complete 6 piece rad hose kit with upper and lower, and all the ancillary hoses for the cooling system for $120 plus shipping. That person agreed to them ordering the kit, and said that it was great, that they could replace the other hoses when they were toast. The kit is in their shop still waiting for someone to pay for them. They said they are not too worried about it, there are alot 60’s out there that will need it someday. I see you have an 80 series, and you were probably quoted for a similar kit, John said the prices for the 80’s hose kit is around the same price.

Canuck Safari, at the time you were there for the wheel bearings, that was when they had a bunch of vehicles comming from Outback, and those bearings were slated for a Safari from Outback. If they sold you the part, and had to order another one, that would of delayed that job, because they would be up in the air waiting for another set of bearings, since they are not as common as the Toyota parts. Was it Ken you were dealing with, the guy that sailor mentioned in that scam?
 
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Wow, I leave town for a couple days and all of a sudden there's a small war breaking out in town. I personally have never dealt with Ateb as I do all my own work but I know Robert and Marcin have been there. I've seen their work while working on their trucks and even though they may seem a little on the expensive side they do a lot more than most mechanic shops will ever do, they clean all the parts to the point where you can eat off them, paint them, put little marks on all bolts so you know if they loosen. Very clean and precise work. I don't know of any bad stuff but again this is second hand.

Most importantly, there are always 3 sides to a story, each person's point of view and the truth. I hope that in a situation like this the truth comes out and is not obscured by emotion, bias or gossip. Good luck to all parties involved.

oh screw it - any business that is willing to give you back all of the money, even for parts that they installed and are letting you keep can't be bad, if anything it shows that they are good and would rather loose money on a job than ruin their reputation. My 2 cents.
 
Holy! It's like a few page novel! Thanks lance N sailor for the other sides of the story, it's quite the eye opener.

Cheers
 
Agreed Mat. and thanks Lance for the significant time you took taking notes on this.

May I Synopsize? Anyone? No objections? Here goes

Mr. Abitibi spent several weeks picking Atebs brains about his starting issue. John and Philip generously took time to help him at no charge with advise. Meanwhile, Abitibi took his truck to another shop and gave that information to the person there (Ateb didn't know about that!) After service at this other shop the truck still isn't right so back to ateb. Trucks wiring is butchered, ECU is butchered, tests fail. Mr. Abitibi is charged 2 hours, goes back to this mystery shop and all is well? Argument ensues and he is not charged. None of the above information was included in the defamatory post Mr. Abitibi created that started this whole debacle. there was no back story.

His Inspection was Very well priced he says. His issue is with a neutral start switch he objects to. A Provincial Government doccument is produced that directs Ateb to install the switch- Argument insues and he is not charged.

Why would you take your truck to shop B while using the expertise of shop A(teb)? Ultimately, Abitibi was only charged 2 hours- Of course he managed to avoid paying even that.

I think that this is all over money (edit- this is only an opinion) There is an image that ateb is expensive. How much does one honestly save bouncing from the skilled technician to the cheap shop, educating the cheap shop, then ultimately returning to the skilled technician? Seems like a huge waste of effort for a few bucks. Oh yeah- you can argue your way out of paying the skilled technician! Ding! the light has switched on!




Synopsis B,

TLC81- Yes Sir, a single hose costs around $45.00. The entire hose kit is coincidentally around $120.00 . In your post you say you inquired and there has only been one inquiry at Ateb about this in the time frame encompassed by this issue. The parts are there at Ateb waiting. Funny that no one called to cancel the order, very courteous! Yet it is possible that that same person might have had time to leap on the bash Ateb bandwagon.

TLC 81- I really don't think Ateb was trying to beat you up on parts pricing for a $80.00 bonanza! There is a measure of reasonableness that is helpful to apply in life to all things. Consider the following if you will:

1) Did you order the correct part?
2) was a simple mistake made at Ateb in the pricing? Did they read the wrong line item on the price list?
3) Could it be possible that there was some confusion? English is spoken very well at ateb, but it is after all their 3rd or 4th language?

Glad you got single hose replaced. Hope your internet blasting gave you some satisfaction as well. John mentioned that he only changes rad hoses in sets because they age at the same rate on our 20 year old vehicles and has found that if you change just one the other is at higher risk of failure. You now have a potential failure point in your cooling system- Enjoy!



John/Canucksafari- I didn't realize you had been dealt with by Ken Tang so I can only imagine what you were quoted for a job at that point. He was in business for himself, not Ateb. Ateb had so much contract Outback Imports business at that time that walk in customers were not as high a priority and didn't recieve the personal attention of John or Philip. Allowing the technicians to work efficiently, without distraction is the reason a shop pays to take on a 'front end' person or office manager. Clearly this didn't work out as planned here- Ken screwed me around too, at least neither you or I , john, lost any money.

John- please consider the following- I know you are a smart guy and can see a reasonable statement when one is presented to you. I think this is reasonable statement but I am biased. You have posted several times about how you were treated poorly by ateb because they advertised parts and wouldn't sell you those parts. Statement below...

As to your Safari parts- you were directed by a franchised Nissan dealer to get your stuff from ATEB wern't you? The parts you needed were earmarked for a Safari arriving from Outback Imports that had to be completed under contract, on time for delivery to it's new owner. Since the Franchised Nissan store couldn't help you, maybe those parts were in short supply at that time- I'm sure if Ateb had a spare to offer you you would have gone away with a smile on your face and a part in hand. Maybe you would have paid a bit extra though-- principle of supply and demand and all that.

As to the ICBC claim issue you had, we are still trying to figure that one out, but will keep trying.
 
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