Another LJ78 head bites the dust...

[harveya]

Maybe it's as simple as they had well designed heads...

Where's our friend from England, who started the Surf board...some folks there have compared heads and noted changes. I believe he mentioned this in a few of his posts.

gb

Greg.

Yes the newer heads have measurably more meat on the face, don't seem to have the problems. However again the cooling system on the 2LT/2LTE engine is marginal at best, lots of things can be done to improve it including a bigger radiator - need to have a fixed fan for that though as the clearance is not enough.

Bigger exhaust does help to keep the EGTs down, removing the EGR (or blocking it) helps to even out the side to side head temps.

But main thingas a start is to make sure that everything is 100% - squaky clean cooling system, good quality coolant, DEI Radiator releif, make sure the Thermostat is up to scratch (and don't just remove it as that makes things worse), good quality radiator cap - get a 1.1 bar one if you can, make sure that all air bubbles are removed from the system - the 2LT/2LTE is a PITA to bleed the system. Also if you are at all unsure, replace the water pump, they suffer from erosion due to cavitation fairly quickly and this ruins the water circulation.

Also install a secondary water temp guage in the bottom hose - the main one is too high in the system and if you lose even a small amount of coolant, it doesn't get any around it and so fails to register when the heat is climbing until it is way too late.

Also if you do overheat, allow the engine to cool slowly - don't fill it with cold water, leave it for 4 hours or more and then refill slowly. To rapid cooling will crack the head as sure as giving it a smack with a 10lb lump hammer.

 

[fish78]

Well, looks like i messed up big time. When i started this thread, i was debating limping the truck home or not. Basically, 30 mins after posting, i took off down the road for home. Sounds like it was a real stupid move from what everyone's saying.

I had talked to the head mechanic at the Toyota dealer, he was the one who suggested to pack the truck with water and drive nice and slow home, and watch the temp gauge like a hawk. So off i went. It wasnt til i got home that i read all the posts telling me i'd have to be crazy to drive it home cause i'll basically wreck the engine completely. The truck has been at the dealer's since wednesday, and i've been extremely stressed out about this whole thing. Finally today i got a call back about the diagnosis...

It took me 28.5 hours on the road to get the truck home from Vancouver. Its usually around a 12 hour drive. I averaged about 70km/h home, stopping pretty often because the truck was overheating, to fill the rad back up. I packed about 12L of water in the truck, and went thru probably close to 40L, topping up the rad a number of times and refilling the jugs at gas stations along the way. It was a horrible idea to drive it home, i figured i was following the mechanics instructions though, and that maybe it wasnt as bad as i was thinking. I'm certianly no mechanic myself, this is all new to me.

Anyway, once i got near lake louise, everything seemed to settle down and the truck ran fine, no overheating. I still kept the speed way down, figuring that maybe the thermometer was broken now. But the rest of the drive was fine, no overheating. And when i pulled in to calgary, the smoke out of the back has stopped and the coolant level was stable, back to normal. I dropped the truck off at the dealership that night.

The dealer has had the truck for about a week, and they've taken it out for a couple drives to get it up to operating temp. All they've figured is necessary is to change the rad cap, saying the seal was messed up, so the coolant was boiling over fast cause the pressure was not being kept up. I'm a little skeptical that this will fix all my problems, as well as i'm worried i've killed my engine driving the truck home, which i'm gonna have to take responsibility for, and i'm pretty sure they're not going to warranty damage done coming home.

I get to pick the truck up tomorrow night, and i've been told that if i keep having overheating problems, that they'll take it back in and have a deeper look at things. I'm gonna take a run out to the mountians to see how things are feeling this weekend. Fingers crossed. Overall, the guys at the dealership have been quite good, i hope it continues...

Lesson learned: Listen to the mud forums...I'm feelin pretty dumb about all this

 

[crushers]

don't feel dumb, you were listening to the mechanic...

the idea that the rad cap is the culprit doesn't sound quite right. mechanical things do not heal themselves. after Lake Louise is is level and a bit down hill so the load on the engine might not have been as heavy...

MAKE sure they extend your warranty past the 30 days other wise they might be trying to "buy time" and get it in writting...

glad you made it back.

cheers

 

[lshobie]

I'm with wayne on that - doesn't sound right at all. Also, the damage is probably done from hitting the high temps- th edealership is most likely hoping this truck will last you a few more months before it packs it in and they won't be responsible for it.

Get your money back while you can - a full refund - unless you have a few thousand to throw away in the next few months.

Just my opinion.

Good luck.

 

[nickw]

I agree, get it in writing.
Tell them you want a 1 year warranty on the engine (seeing as this is an existing issue). Then have it noterized by a lawyer. DON'T take thier word. If there word is as good as they say, then signing a piece of paper should be no problem.

If they don't want to extend your warranty, get a refund.

You could also try doing a compression check.
Wayne is right. Mechanical things don't heal themselves. What ever it is, it will be back.

Cheers,
Nick

 

[Hawke]

Here's an interesting comment from a MUD poster selling a jdm truck:

"we will offer a 6 Month guarentee on the head, we can get Genuine replacement heads for $850 exchange with all gasket ready to go. These are an udpated head, that fix's the problem, we have been fitting these for the last 7 years and have yet to have one re-appear with a problem.

Thanks"

 

[crushers]

WOW!! they will be doing a LOT of warranty work here in Canada...

 

[Hawke]

WOW!! they will be doing a LOT of warranty work here in Canada...

I think we may be on the same wavelength. He may be promising more than he can deliver.

 

[lshobie]

With the new consumer protection laws I am sure that a consumer could go after a dealer for up to a year if the head let go - mainly because it is a known problem now. If the dealer sells something that he knows will more than likely will take a turd - then the dealer is responsible.

My advice stands - return the truck.

Regards

 

[crushers]

you have to prove the dealer did know about it.. not all imports will acknowledge a concern with the heads...

 

[lshobie]

true

 

[crushers]

this would be easy enough, just get the salesperson to sign a note that states they know of the issue better yet get the owner of the company to sign off, this way the owner can not say that the salesperson did not have the authority to sign off...
any extended warranty should be in writting as well.

to sell a USED vehicle with no warranty and then verbaly state you will warranty the head will not stand up in court (at least not without a good battle).

 

[fish78]

I guess i should give an update for those who are interested about what ended up happening with this mess in the end. Here we go!

Last i left off, i had just got my truck back from the dealership (Canyon Creek Toyota in Calgary). They replaced the rad cap, and said they weren't able to get the truck to overheat anymore. So i drove the truck around town for about a week, and it was indeed running fine. I took it out for a 3 hour drive thru the mountians that weekend, and the engine overheated again. I let it cool back down and limped it back to the dealership. On the way back, the overheating calmed back down and drove fine for the last half hour. I was worrying that they were going to start thinking i was making this all up. I showed them that the rad had lost half its contents, and they agreed that it needed to be looked at some more. They didn't want to replace anything until they could get the truck to overheat themselves, so they sent it home with one of their mechanincs who lives out of town, and it finally overheated for him. So they ripped the engine apart and found a small crack in the cylinder head that was only opening up under certian circumstances (or something). So they agreed that the head needed replacing and went ahead and
ordered the parts..

They had the truck for 3 weeks, waiting on parts and doing the install. When they called me up that it was finished the head mechanic tells me "Good news! Your truck is done and management has agreed to split the cost with you!" And i'm thinking, what the hell?! This was supposed to be covered! So i went down and talked to the management.

Things get a little confusing here, so bear with me. When i bought the truck it was listed at $13,990 + GST. I told them i'd take it for $13,990 including GST and an extra 2 month warranty (on top of the standard 1 month warranty they offer with all their used vehicles) on only the head, since i was worried about it. The salesman said he had talk to management about it. He calls me back and says that they will sell the truck for $13,990 gst included, but if i wanted it with the extra warranty, i had to pay the gst. Now it seemed kind of stupid to pay an extra $800 for two months of warranty on only the head. So i went with just the regular warranty and the price inc. GST.

Now heres the crappy part. When i went to talk to management, they tell me that when i bought the truck for the deal i got, i was saying i didn't want any warranty what-so-ever, and that i was lucky that they were going to help pay for anything at all. This was rather shocking. My salesman was in the room as well, so i asked him to back me up, that i certianly never waived my warranty. Thankfully, he agreed and backed me up. The manager seemed determined to get some kind of money out of me. SO he tells me that all they're liable to do is repair the head, and hes going to do it with used parts instead. If i want to use the new updated head they have on order, i have to pay them the difference in GST i had taken off thesale price ($834). So basically i was trapped. I could either have a used head put on that could have the same overheating problems for free, or pay $800 to get the updated head. Its not much of a choice, so i paid my $800 and walked away feeling pretty ripped off. I don't think i'll be going back there.

Aside from all that, the truck is now running great. I've only had it back for about a week, but i took it out to the trails this weekend, and it was awesome, no overheating for the whole day. Things seem pretty good. When they had the truck in, they went over the entire cooling system, trying ot find something to blame the problem on other than having to replace the whole head. They figured the thermostat needed replacing, so they did, but that the rest of the system looked really good. So, hopefully they're right! I have a year warranty on the work they did as well, so i can drive around for
the next while with quite a bit less stress.

I still would like to get a pyro installed as well as a couple other things done. Its very nice having the truck back, its like when i first picked it up. I love my truck and now i can finally start enjoying it!

I hope this hasn't been too long winded!

 

[crushers]

I guess i should give an update for those who are interested about what ended up happening with this mess in the end. Here we go!

They had the truck for 3 weeks, waiting on parts and doing the install. When they called me up that it was finished the head mechanic tells me "Good news! Your truck is done and management has agreed to split the cost with you!" And i'm thinking, what the hell?! This was supposed to be covered! So i went down and talked to the management.

Things get a little confusing here, so bear with me. When i bought the truck it was listed at $13,990 + GST. I told them i'd take it for $13,990 including GST and an extra 2 month warranty (on top of the standard 1 month warranty they offer with all their used vehicles) on only the head, since i was worried about it. The salesman said he had talk to management about it. He calls me back and says that they will sell the truck for $13,990 gst included, but if i wanted it with the extra warranty, i had to pay the gst. Now it seemed kind of stupid to pay an extra $800 for two months of warranty on only the head. So i went with just the regular warranty and the price inc. GST.

Now heres the crappy part. When i went to talk to management, they tell me that when i bought the truck for the deal i got, i was saying i didn't want any warranty what-so-ever, and that i was lucky that they were going to help pay for anything at all. This was rather shocking. My salesman was in the room as well, so i asked him to back me up, that i certianly never waived my warranty. Thankfully, he agreed and backed me up. The manager seemed determined to get some kind of money out of me. SO he tells me that all they're liable to do is repair the head, and hes going to do it with used parts instead. If i want to use the new updated head they have on order, i have to pay them the difference in GST i had taken off thesale price ($834). So basically i was trapped. I could either have a used head put on that could have the same overheating problems for free, or pay $800 to get the updated head. Its not much of a choice, so i paid my $800 and walked away feeling pretty ripped off. I don't think i'll be going back there.

Aside from all that, the truck is now running great. I've only had it back for about a week, but i took it out to the trails this weekend, and it was awesome, no overheating for the whole day. Things seem pretty good. When they had the truck in, they went over the entire cooling system, trying ot find something to blame the problem on other than having to replace the whole head. They figured the thermostat needed replacing, so they did, but that the rest of the system looked really good. So, hopefully they're right! I have a year warranty on the work they did as well, so i can drive around for
the next while with quite a bit less stress.

I still would like to get a pyro installed as well as a couple other things done. Its very nice having the truck back, its like when i first picked it up. I love my truck and now i can finally start enjoying it!

I hope this hasn't been too long winded!

hummm, i would suggest calling AMVIC and have a chat with them. a warranty is a warranty and new parts is part of the warranty ESPECIALLY since it is a known problem.
AMVIC will go to bat for you and if you have any issues then point them to my webpage showing the regularity of this concern.
(after all we are not talking an accident where used parts are acceptable)

it should not be on your shoulders to have to pay the extra. you told them straight up that the head IS A KNOWN ISSUE, they said it was not a concern so they shoudl have to eat the whole bill.

AMVIC is a complaint based organization and they go to bat for the customer. they will first check out the story from both ends and if they feel there has been a wrong commited then they have the power to MAKE the business do right by the customer.
you bought the truck from the dealer with a one month warranty, i would not have wavered an inch...

cheers and good luck

 

[Island Moose]

hummm, i would suggest calling AMVIC and have a chat with them. a warranty is a warranty and new parts is part of the warranty ESPECIALLY since it is a known problem.
AMVIC will go to bat for you and if you have any issues then point them to my webpage showing the regularity of this concern.
(after all we are not talking an accident where used parts are acceptable)

it should not be on your shoulders to have to pay the extra. you told them straight up that the head IS A KNOWN ISSUE, they said it was not a concern so they shoudl have to eat the whole bill.

AMVIC is a complaint based organization and they go to bat for the customer. they will first check out the story from both ends and if they feel there has been a wrong commited then they have the power to MAKE the business do right by the customer.
you bought the truck from the dealer with a one month warranty, i would not have wavered an inch...

cheers and good luck

Too late now, he handed over the $800...bye bye...that's a clear case of a bully dealer pulling a fast one.

 

[nickw]

What is the parts manags name?
Maybe all of us should pay him a phone call? And the general manager.

Hey, gald to hear your ripping people off.
We are spreading the word.
That $800, might cost you $800,000 in sales.

Think it would help, or just make worse?

Cheers,
Nick

 

[crushers]

Too late now, he handed over the $800...bye bye...that's a clear case of a bully dealer pulling a fast one.

actually no, that is not the case. even if he handed over the money if AMVIC rules the money should be returned the dealer will have to return it or loose his license... when a dealer wrongfully pulls a fast one, AMVIC shows no mercy.
if the dealer is found not to have wronged the customer then they back the dealer.
i would feel $800 is worth a free email explaining the situation...